SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

For the folks who are not familiar with our Bogart wheels or who are considering them, there are a few areas to discuss during comparison to other wheels. This post is not to undermean other designs, it is to show how we differ then other wheels out there. It is to show what we can do for you and how we can help you reach your goals.

Fitment is important, we have direct fit wheels and can design direct fit wheels for many applications. We do not design a one size fit wheel, we have designs specifically for each car. LS1, LT1 specific.

Weight, do NOT overlook weight. Rotational weight seems to be overlooked when you are comparing wheels and comparing prices. Some setups may SEEM like a good deal...unfortunately, some overlook the weight factor. I see this quite often.

General rule of thumb, consider, for EVERY 1 lb of rotational weight difference (place competitor’s wheel in here) ADD ~4lbs of static weight to the car!

An example, take a 15x10 wheel that weighs 15 lbs, compared to our typical 10 lb same sized wheel, with the competitors "better" price, you are leaving ~20lbs of converted static weight on your car for that ONE wheel. I repeat ONE wheel. Multiply that for a pair…you’ve just left 40lbs on your car that you could have removed… If a manufactures wheel is 15+ lbs take a hard look at what you are investing in.

Pay attention to overall gains. If a wheel is only a few pounds lighter than a stock wheel, is this the best choice? Our wheels are slightly more than half the weight of a stock wheel! Less weight, less drivetrain/engine strain the vehicle sees…there are real quantitative advantages to choosing a lightweight wheel setup.

Do the math! Take your competitor’s comparison wheel, look at the weight differences to our designs then look at what you could be actually saving and gaining.

The 4-600.00 k-members you purchased to save ~30-35lbs good choice!! …yet leaving 40 pounds from only even two heavy wheels since you wanted to save a few dollars may not sound like the “good” deal you once thought. You've now spent similar dollars on both components yet possibly reached a net loss in comparison.

Rotational and unsprung weight, it will affect braking distances, 60ft times and overall suspension performance.

Some discuss our costs being a bit higher then others...look closely to what you may be loosing by trying to save on a wheel in comparison to our designs.

If you want the best, we are here to help you reach your goals with our Bogart designs.

JMBLOWNWS6

iTrader: (17)

Steve I look forward to bolting up my red d10's this month and getting you some pics for your site.

Here's the bogarts on Dannys 2003 Z06. Current time on this street car is 9.80@148

96redcamaro

iTrader: (1)

man I want some bogarts so bad!

stevensLS1

iTrader: (2)

just curious but are the rr rt's considered a daily driven wheel since they are part of your road racing line?

GMMillwright

iTrader: (4)

Those are killer. What size? Bigger than 15s, I assume, due to the larger C5 brakes? I'm planning a C6 upgrade this winter and had decided on the 17" RR RT, but I prefer the cleaner look of those D10s.

bearcatpride

iTrader: (3)

I would also like to know this

davered00ss

iTrader: (4)

Can I get a price on a pair of welded RT front skinnies for my 2000 SS?

Beaflag VonRathburg

iTrader: (176)

They aren't considered DD wheels, but he can make some strong enough for you. I'll be ordering my set when I get some money to finish the mini tubbing. I need a specific wheel though, a 15x12 with 4 inch BS.

INTENESS

iTrader: (4)

I just ordered my rear RT bolted Bogarts,These rims are like art work top notch Customer service also cant be beat.Will post up pics as soon as I get the rims put on.I have the front bolted RT now looking to finish the look.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

RR wheels are VERY strong. They are designed to take the heavy extended stress loads during RR applications. Stress seen can far exceed normal street driving.

Davered, This post is for information regarding our designs. If you or anyone is interested in our products for quotes, we'll be happy to quote you. Please call us or e-mail us with your specifications. It is too difficult to quote something to someone without knowing how their car is setup or goals they are attempting to obtain.

We do not list pricing for our wheels for the simple fact that depending on how we build them, prices change according to what is necessary to work for the application that the customer needs/wants.

If you want a ballpark range, it may be less then 100.00 difference in price from centerline convo drag wheels last time I checked. I think we are also about 300.00 LESS then weld aluma star 2's. It really depends what you need and how I build them for you.

Most wanted

iTrader: (1)

But knowing i can drive to the track on a Street wheel that is a few lbs heavier, And Having that piece of Mind, Along with SFI Approved, Not an issue when i know i can drive to the track, And not change my wheels, and drive home. I know a car is Doing Dragweek with the Billet Wheels on it, Without changing them. Yett You would not reccomend that with Bogarts? True?

Im sure BS could make a Full out drag wheel thats as Lightweight as Bogarts, But Im sure there Looking at a More Street Friendly wheel.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

This post isn't to compare a street wheel to a drag wheel. You can do the same with summit 100.00 "street" wheels. There is no comparison regarding performance gains. Street to drag wheel is a losing battle from just about every aspect of drag racing. A street wheel doesn’t have any of the benefits that a drag wheel has…If you want a street wheel obviously not caring about weight; there are many wheels out there to choose. I wouldn’t boast about a 16.5lb wheel and call it anything near a drag wheel (probably why it is called a street wheel).

No manufacture creating drag wheels, which the primary reason people use them, recommends them for street use. So why bring it up? Even our RR designs are lighter then what you’re considering…We have 15” RR wheels we can build as well…but this is not something that we typically recommend as handling is far from good with a 15” combination…

The primary purpose of using a 15” wheel is for weight benefits. Certainly it is not for handling improvements!! ALL 15” wheel designs are going to handle terrible in comparison to say a nice 17” wheel design. So why bother spending funds to kill handling so that you can drive it on the street and be a street wheel with little to no benefits. That would be like buying all season radials in comparison to a very good summer tire just so you can drive it in the winter snow??

I’m happy you brought up the statement of being “a few lbs heavier”. All wheels are not 1000 lbs here…differences between just about any wheel will always be a “few”. Unsprung rotational weight reacts differently then static weight. It’s those “few” lbs that make differences and can drastically improve many facets of driving. If you want to compare what you're considering, with what you've described, the rear-wheel for example being your consideration is almost 16.5 lbs!!! That is extremely heavy, leaving 50lbs of converted static mass on your car?? You’re braking and braking distances will suffer in comparison, 60 ft times are affected, your drivetrain will be stressed greater, suspension action/reaction affected…so what gains shine?? …the ability to state that you use a terrible combination for daily street use?? I personally would never want to use ANY big/skinny setup for street use. The wheels you mentioned is essentially 65% heavier than our Bogart LS1 design! …Realistically only a “few” lbs less then stock. Weld XP's were in the same weight category.

I’m not going to discount the wheels may be nice, but that is about as far as I will go with them regarding them as a drag wheel...as they are not. There are many cottage industries with very nice street wheels. They may be a nice street wheel, but is in no comparison to any drag wheel out there on the market. If you want to compare these wheels, regarding performance gains, compare them to the 100.00 summit brand prostar “street-strip” copies. They are in the same weight category. They may look slightly different, once again though, the only reason to use a big/skinny combination is for drag performance gains. Handling goes out the door with when changing from the typical 17” wheel setup used on the F-body.

This post is about drag wheels and the benefits of our Bogart drag wheels.

Black98Z28

iTrader: (8)

In a few more weeks i will be ordering a set of Bolted R/T's w/black centers. I can't wait.

Bogarts >

The weight and quality of these wheels is unreal, i held my buddies D10's a while back and holy crap! The rears were lighter than the fronts! I couldn't believe how light they were, and not to mention the quality of the wheels.

Most wanted

iTrader: (1)

Wasn't the title of this thread we have the best setup for your car????? Peoples Cars Vary in Setups So how is A Bogart better for me if i have a Street Car???

thats odd, Alot of people Don't get to the track that often, But play around on the street, They also like the look of a Skinny, Along with a Meaty et street in the rear.

Now you bring up weight, Understandable BUT

WS6/ZR1 (chrome) 20.5
10 Spoke SS (painted) 22.0
10 Spoke SS (chrome) 23.0
Firehawk (painted) 22.0
Firehawk (chrome) 23.0
1998 Z28/Camaro 16" (chrome) 21.5
5 Spoke Firebird/Z28 16" (painted) 19.5
Centerline Telstar 15x4 12.0
Weld Prostar 15x8 13.0
Weld Prostar 15x3.5 10.0
Bogart Dragstar 15x10 10.0
Bogart Fluted Star 15x3.5 8.5
American Racing Torq Thrust II 17x9.5 24.0
American Racing Torq Thrust II 17x11 27.0

So now the Billet Pieces are Front 10.2Lbs on a 15x4 thats 1.7lbs Diffrence on the Front wheels. BIG Diffrence from Stock.

On the rear there 16.2 on a 15x10" wheel, yours are 10.5 Thats a diffrence of 5.7 lbs. SO there is a Signifiance of Weight for a Wheel over stock. Also the Billet is SFI approved, Why isnt Bogart?

Now in Your First Post you stated Over STOCK wheels, Now in your last post to me you stricly say Drag race only. Im understanding some of your Points, But not all of them. To me it Seems a Bogart is a Great Lightweight Drag race wheel, But not a Great All Around wheel, Not everyone wants to Lug there Lightweight Drag race wheels to the track, Then a Jack, Now a Tq wrench, cooler, wife, Dog. Then take it all out, Hope someone doesnt steal your Stock wheels or anything else thats there. A few Lbs can be taken out somewhere else.

Me Ill sacrifice a few Lbs to be Street worthy as they claim, I know those wheels making there rounds on Dragweek Right now, Not being swapped out, Just to see how they perform. I guess the 67 Camaro there on at Dragweek, Might of went 7.65 with a set of drag race wheels, But the aggravation he is saving by leaving them on must mean something.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

The title is correct, and my statement does represent what we have to offer. If you have a street car which is not a road racing car nor a drag car, then stay with street wheels that are for everyday use. The way the car was designed for the street is an overall compromised street setup.

In your case, changing to a skinny slick setup is probably the worst modification you can possibly make to your street car. Steering and handling will be about the worst it could possibly be compared to stock, and your braking ability will be substantially degraded compared to stock. Installing these wheels can make one very upset when they go to use them as their normal everday street setup. I can't imagine using a skinny/slick setup as a street setup during highway driving to work. What the typical person would do is take them off since they make the car handle very badly and only use them at the track . Ok so now you have "street" wheels that you use at the track that are very heavy and do not give you the gains that a drag wheel will give you. Once again, what was gained?

I suppose you may look have a certain look that looks neat, but what is the sense of having a street car that you use for street yet it performs in every street application worse than stock?? At this point, you’re in the area of say an import guy using a huge rear-spoiler on a yugo because he thinks it looks cool. Nothing wrong with his likes/dislikes, but it does little for performance (actually in his case, it is not going to degrade performance of the car to the extent that your car will be).

My suggestion is to keep the wheels stock, when you want to race, use drag wheels for the track, use RR wheels for the course as you will reap the most performance benefits.

You're number of 10.5 isn't correct, and your cut and pasted criteria is not an accurate representation. Why did you cut and paste Bogart 10" Dragstar wheel stating 10lbs yet suggest all our 10" wheels are 10.5lbs? Our wheels are built specific for each application. How we build the wheel affects its weight, not the name of it.

Any "all around" setup is a very poor choice regarding best performance enhancements. I don't understand your logic. Regarding best application, a "combo" setup that is just ok on the street and just ok on the track doesn't qualify as a "best wheel". A combo setup is not best in any area

The analogy of an all season tire comes to mind...they are just "ok" in the summer, and just "ok" in the winter. They are not a very good choice for each specific application. How many of the guys are using all season radials for their car and expect best performance? We build specific application setups that are proven and reap best benefits in both RR and drag applications. As mentioned, even our 17" RR setups can be built lighter then the 15" setups you suggested.

We design each wheel for each application, our drag wheels are the lightest direct-fit wheel on the market and we stand 100% behind all designs. We do not design a one size fits a few-wheel, each customer discusses their setup, we give recommendations as well as considerations of their goals then we build the wheel to fit their particular need. We are a goal oriented customer service corporation.

I'm not going to try to convince you to change your wheel choice, you seem to have vested interested seeing that you appear (from screen name) to be a vendor that does not pay for advertising.


I will paraphrase you, you are 100% correct, we do not build a great all around wheel. Is there really such a thing...as an all around setup is really not great at any one thing!

We build high-ended specific wheels for each application which reap very high benefits.

Most wanted

iTrader: (1)

WOW, Ok.

I guess everyone around here that likes the way there car looks on Skinnies, and a et street, Should just Not even Bother, And Buy Bogarts. Cause it's Not worth it For anything Else.

So in Reality You dont have the Best setup????? Correct????

Just the Best ALL out Drag race Setup?????? So what your saying is, With a Bone Stock Car, I switch to your wheels, And i have the Ultimate Setup??? What about suspension??? Just the wheels??

Im Still confused here.

Cause what your telling me is Your wheel is the Far Superior Setup then anything on the market, Yett im kinda dumb for Liking a Street Setup which the Billet, Centerline, Weld offers cause it does not give me the Ultimate performance as to where the Bogart will give me the Best Performance. And then you Tell me im like an Import guy Cause of how im comparing wheels? Come on. And then you Blast A Skinny Setup on the street which i know probably 70% of the people here on Ls1 tech do on a Daily Nice weather Setup. What about if i Street race, Even though Thats Illegal, Am i suppoused to Swap my wheels out at the Race spot????

I also cut and Pasted what i found in a Quick Yahoo Search from someone who has weighed them all and everything else looking for weight savings.

You also didnt answer why Bogarts aren't Sfi Approved.

Also nice Blast at the Vendor that doesnt Pay for Advertising, Please look Through all my Posts and see where i have ADVERTISED ANYTHING. Except a rear end in the For sale section that was used.

Im just Calling Something as i see it. I think I understand what your trying to say though, That The Bogart is the Far Superior wheel, And anything else Is Doo-Doo.

And you can Build A wheel for everything, Yett cant Build a Street Wheel, Which Many of us Are looking for. 1 for Looks, And 2 To be less Weight.

What about Tire Weight though???? That has to make a Diffrence also Correct? You forgot to mention that.

cpt_bimes

iTrader: (7)

i know bogart skinnies were worth about a tenth and a half on my car. You know a skinnie is good when you can hold the tire/rim out to your side with your arm extended and not even strain

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

Hey SJM, about 2 weeks ago, I was looking for some answers on wheels. Weight, styles, cost, availability, etc. I called you guys like continously over two days. Not once did anybody answer the phone. I listened to the message over and over. While I'll bet your wheels are good, so are others. Good customer service often seals the deal. Sorry, I went with another wheel!

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Paul, I apologize you felt shorted. A few weeks ago, we were closed for the week for inventory which the voice message as well as website indicated. I was in Arizona with Rich Bogart among other obligations. If you didn't leave a message, no one would have called back when we re-opened for business.

I would be happy to help you with your questions. For others, if you're bumped into our voice system please leave a message, we are happy to call you back if we missed your call. Unfortunately, we do not have a staff of 10 people dedicated to answering phones; it does get rather busy at times of which customers may go to the voice system. I encourage everyone to not just listen to a voice message, please leave your name and number; we will return your call.

Elite, you’re obviously looking for a street wheel for your setup and do not want a drag or road race build. I think somewhere one of us has veered from topic. My discussion is with racing components not street components. We build race components encompassing for road racing as well as drag racing, NOT Street components.

If you do not have questions or concerning our racing components, please do not post under our thread.

If you're interested a street wheel that looks like a drag wheel but doesn't have the benefits of drag wheels, you may consider Summit or Jegs street wheels whereas they have 15x3.5 wheels ~ 89.00 which will net you similar gains, there rears are ~150.00 each as well. This may fit your criteria well and net you a set of full set of wheels for ~400.00. I don’t know if the wheels you discuss even fit the f-bodies caliper profile. Summit/Jegs wheels may be a far better valve for your goals since neither weight nor is performance of issue to you. You can even re-use your tapered lugs with summit/jegs wheels.

Regarding SFI, I'm not sure what your point is directed to. The SFI sticker does not give you a rite of passage. It states that a manufactured paid for testing under their lab for a component which under testing, said particular component meets or exceeds criteria which were forth-set. Our wheels do not retain a SFI stamp, not because it may not meet criteria, too many variations of wheels create multiple $$ constraints which costs ultimately would be forced to move to the consumer. Since SFI has not been a necessary issue for our customers, keeping costs down to the consumer while still retaining safety concerns was most important. If SFI was a concern for wheel components for our racers, rest assured you would see an SFI approval on the wheels.

If you were using your car for racing purposes of which SFI is an issue you may not be having this conversation. If you were in need of SFI racing approval and wanted a race component, I’d highly suggest Weld Alumastar 2 wheels. Bogart wheels go through rigorous testing, from FEA, control and real world testing. Bogart wheels have over 25 years of history under their belts.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Elite Non-Sponsor Auto, please give it a rest or you could suddenly find that your account no longer works properly.

Thanks!