What components?
03-27-2005, 05:25 PM
#1
Staging Lane
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What components? Hi guys,
I need help picking out a good set of components for my TA. I've got the Monsoon system in it now, but picked up an Eclipse CD5425 deck to put in and I've got a couple of RF Punch amplifiers, one for a Punch 10" sub that I've got and a 4 channel for the rest. So, what components are recommended for the front stage (what size as well, 5.25 or 6.5...will a 6.5 even fit in the doors)? Price is an issue, so I'd like to stay in the $200-$300 range. Also, I've heard a lot of people poo-pooing the rear stage. Do you guys recommend atleast some midbass in the sails, or nothing at all back there?
Thanks in advance,
Eric
I need help picking out a good set of components for my TA. I've got the Monsoon system in it now, but picked up an Eclipse CD5425 deck to put in and I've got a couple of RF Punch amplifiers, one for a Punch 10" sub that I've got and a 4 channel for the rest. So, what components are recommended for the front stage (what size as well, 5.25 or 6.5...will a 6.5 even fit in the doors)? Price is an issue, so I'd like to stay in the $200-$300 range. Also, I've heard a lot of people poo-pooing the rear stage. Do you guys recommend atleast some midbass in the sails, or nothing at all back there?
Thanks in advance,
Eric
03-28-2005, 08:14 PM
#2
Infinty Kappa Perfect 6.1's in the front doors. They are on a price cut right now because they are last years model, but sound great. I'll post a link in when I get off work. Retail is around $500 I think and a couple of places and E-bay have them for around $200-250.
I'd forget upgrading the rear-speakers and just power them off the Head-unit. Rear-fill is not really necessary, but can help. Try putting them on the rear speaker output form the radio and fade them down till you barelly hear notice them there. Experiment with it.
As far as Mid-bass in the Sails, That will depend on how much Mid-bass you want. The Kappas Have good output in this area. They must be broken in for a little while until you notice an increase. The suspension is pretty stiff and requires a break in period that varies depending on who I've talked too. Say roughly 2-4 weeks until they sound their fullest.
I'd forget upgrading the rear-speakers and just power them off the Head-unit. Rear-fill is not really necessary, but can help. Try putting them on the rear speaker output form the radio and fade them down till you barelly hear notice them there. Experiment with it.
As far as Mid-bass in the Sails, That will depend on how much Mid-bass you want. The Kappas Have good output in this area. They must be broken in for a little while until you notice an increase. The suspension is pretty stiff and requires a break in period that varies depending on who I've talked too. Say roughly 2-4 weeks until they sound their fullest.
03-28-2005, 09:02 PM
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I haven't liked Infinity since the late 90's. Harsh sounding and it lacks mid-bass.
Have you considered companies like DynaAudio (expensive), Diamond, CDT, or Adire? Much better then most anything you'll find at your local retail store.
The rule of thumb I go by is that if you can find it at Best Buy, Circuit City, or Sears, it's going to be 90% crap. The other decent 10% is wiring, Alpine headunits, and XM radio
Have you considered companies like DynaAudio (expensive), Diamond, CDT, or Adire? Much better then most anything you'll find at your local retail store.
The rule of thumb I go by is that if you can find it at Best Buy, Circuit City, or Sears, it's going to be 90% crap. The other decent 10% is wiring, Alpine headunits, and XM radio
03-28-2005, 10:21 PM
#4
Originally Posted by unredeemed
I haven't liked Infinity since the late 90's. Harsh sounding and it lacks mid-bass.
Have you considered companies like DynaAudio (expensive), Diamond, CDT, or Adire? Much better then most anything you'll find at your local retail store.
The rule of thumb I go by is that if you can find it at Best Buy, Circuit City, or Sears, it's going to be 90% crap. The other decent 10% is wiring, Alpine headunits, and XM radio
Have you considered companies like DynaAudio (expensive), Diamond, CDT, or Adire? Much better then most anything you'll find at your local retail store.
The rule of thumb I go by is that if you can find it at Best Buy, Circuit City, or Sears, it's going to be 90% crap. The other decent 10% is wiring, Alpine headunits, and XM radio
I personnally run Dyna's. Not in his price range. The Adires are a pretty good set also. A tad out side your range but very nice. They run about $350 a set if you are curious.
Here is the link.
http://www.etronics.com/listproducts...1A247B236197B5
By the way. The Kappa perfects are not usaually on the demop boards at the big retail chains.
Pretty goofy way to sum it up. "If it's at a large store, it's crap." I don't agree 100%. You have to understand that to most people stereos are not the end all be all for them. Most just want something better than Stock. Not the best.
03-29-2005, 01:08 AM
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I didn't say all stuff in big retail is crap. Just most.
Think ten years back when the PPI Art series amps were awesome. Soundstream Reference amps were quite amazing themselves. Alpine was considered high end. Sony didn't make that Xplod line of crap, and their ES line was really good.
In those ten years we've seen companies merge, go bankrupt, get bought out, etc.
There has really been little to no innovation in the past five years from the larger "big name," companies. It's really been up to the DIY crowd and true enthusiasts that have driven recent innovations. Adire, RE, TC Sounds, and a few others are what I think are innovative in their designs. They have also listened to what we want, and made it happen.
What's in the stores now is low technology, high margin items. I'll look up a deck I want, and call up some buddies to see what their shop cost is on it and I'm amazed at what items really cost. I recently had to replace my Terk XM-Micro antenna I bought from ebay for about $25, and a replacement from a local shop was $80. I was in a pinch and really wanted my XM service back up and just ate the loss. But it seems that we've gone from solid technology and decent pricing, to low technology and high margins.
While audio systems are about 75% installation, and 25% component choice. It's important to an extent that one does their research and looks outside of retail and looks in the little nooks and crannies of the Internet to see what the tweakers and DIY crowd are doing and which company is making that happen. Those are the companies I want buy my products from. Also to use the Internet as a resource and not gospel in which all is held true.
If one is technically minded, he/she could buy what they need from a greymarket re-seller and install them item themselves while saving upwards of 30%. All it costs is time. But at hte same time, you are correct that some are only looking for an upgrade from stock and are content with retail purchases and installations. Not I
Soon I'll have some pictures and how-to's posted. Starting with a how to fiberglass, and a sound deadening tutorial. I may even write something up about making sub trim rings and MDF baffle rings if I have the time. 
Think ten years back when the PPI Art series amps were awesome. Soundstream Reference amps were quite amazing themselves. Alpine was considered high end. Sony didn't make that Xplod line of crap, and their ES line was really good.
In those ten years we've seen companies merge, go bankrupt, get bought out, etc.
There has really been little to no innovation in the past five years from the larger "big name," companies. It's really been up to the DIY crowd and true enthusiasts that have driven recent innovations. Adire, RE, TC Sounds, and a few others are what I think are innovative in their designs. They have also listened to what we want, and made it happen.
What's in the stores now is low technology, high margin items. I'll look up a deck I want, and call up some buddies to see what their shop cost is on it and I'm amazed at what items really cost. I recently had to replace my Terk XM-Micro antenna I bought from ebay for about $25, and a replacement from a local shop was $80. I was in a pinch and really wanted my XM service back up and just ate the loss. But it seems that we've gone from solid technology and decent pricing, to low technology and high margins.
While audio systems are about 75% installation, and 25% component choice. It's important to an extent that one does their research and looks outside of retail and looks in the little nooks and crannies of the Internet to see what the tweakers and DIY crowd are doing and which company is making that happen. Those are the companies I want buy my products from. Also to use the Internet as a resource and not gospel in which all is held true.
If one is technically minded, he/she could buy what they need from a greymarket re-seller and install them item themselves while saving upwards of 30%. All it costs is time. But at hte same time, you are correct that some are only looking for an upgrade from stock and are content with retail purchases and installations. Not I
Soon I'll have some pictures and how-to's posted. Starting with a how to fiberglass, and a sound deadening tutorial. I may even write something up about making sub trim rings and MDF baffle rings if I have the time.
03-29-2005, 01:37 AM
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Your right when you say that most of your lower lines are carried in your bigger retail store but Richie is also right by suggesting the in Infinty Kappas cause they are hard to beat for the price. Not everyone wants to spend the kind of money we do on audio.(I run MB Quart Q series)
erkki
The best advice I can give you is to go and listen for yourself and form your own opinion of what YOU like. Most people are happy with the infinitys because they make a great speaker for the price.
erkki
The best advice I can give you is to go and listen for yourself and form your own opinion of what YOU like. Most people are happy with the infinitys because they make a great speaker for the price.
03-29-2005, 01:24 PM
#7
Originally Posted by unredeemed
I didn't say all stuff in big retail is crap. Just most.
Think ten years back when the PPI Art series amps were awesome. Soundstream Reference amps were quite amazing themselves. Alpine was considered high end. Sony didn't make that Xplod line of crap, and their ES line was really good.
In those ten years we've seen companies merge, go bankrupt, get bought out, etc.
There has really been little to no innovation in the past five years from the larger "big name," companies. It's really been up to the DIY crowd and true enthusiasts that have driven recent innovations. Adire, RE, TC Sounds, and a few others are what I think are innovative in their designs. They have also listened to what we want, and made it happen.
What's in the stores now is low technology, high margin items. I'll look up a deck I want, and call up some buddies to see what their shop cost is on it and I'm amazed at what items really cost. I recently had to replace my Terk XM-Micro antenna I bought from ebay for about $25, and a replacement from a local shop was $80. I was in a pinch and really wanted my XM service back up and just ate the loss. But it seems that we've gone from solid technology and decent pricing, to low technology and high margins.
While audio systems are about 75% installation, and 25% component choice. It's important to an extent that one does their research and looks outside of retail and looks in the little nooks and crannies of the Internet to see what the tweakers and DIY crowd are doing and which company is making that happen. Those are the companies I want buy my products from. Also to use the Internet as a resource and not gospel in which all is held true.
If one is technically minded, he/she could buy what they need from a greymarket re-seller and install them item themselves while saving upwards of 30%. All it costs is time. But at hte same time, you are correct that some are only looking for an upgrade from stock and are content with retail purchases and installations. Not I Soon I'll have some pictures and how-to's posted. Starting with a how to fiberglass, and a sound deadening tutorial. I may even write something up about making sub trim rings and MDF baffle rings if I have the time.
Think ten years back when the PPI Art series amps were awesome. Soundstream Reference amps were quite amazing themselves. Alpine was considered high end. Sony didn't make that Xplod line of crap, and their ES line was really good.
In those ten years we've seen companies merge, go bankrupt, get bought out, etc.
There has really been little to no innovation in the past five years from the larger "big name," companies. It's really been up to the DIY crowd and true enthusiasts that have driven recent innovations. Adire, RE, TC Sounds, and a few others are what I think are innovative in their designs. They have also listened to what we want, and made it happen.
What's in the stores now is low technology, high margin items. I'll look up a deck I want, and call up some buddies to see what their shop cost is on it and I'm amazed at what items really cost. I recently had to replace my Terk XM-Micro antenna I bought from ebay for about $25, and a replacement from a local shop was $80. I was in a pinch and really wanted my XM service back up and just ate the loss. But it seems that we've gone from solid technology and decent pricing, to low technology and high margins.
While audio systems are about 75% installation, and 25% component choice. It's important to an extent that one does their research and looks outside of retail and looks in the little nooks and crannies of the Internet to see what the tweakers and DIY crowd are doing and which company is making that happen. Those are the companies I want buy my products from. Also to use the Internet as a resource and not gospel in which all is held true.
If one is technically minded, he/she could buy what they need from a greymarket re-seller and install them item themselves while saving upwards of 30%. All it costs is time. But at hte same time, you are correct that some are only looking for an upgrade from stock and are content with retail purchases and installations. Not I
Soon I'll have some pictures and how-to's posted. Starting with a how to fiberglass, and a sound deadening tutorial. I may even write something up about making sub trim rings and MDF baffle rings if I have the time. Damn. Well said. I agree with this 1000%. I use to have sound stream when it was a good company. I also use to believe totally in Kenwood, but they are starting to become a disapoinment.
Also I love Pioneers "Bang for the Buck" when It comes to features and realize that they also need to start inovating more because all they are doing is slowly introducing technology that is in my DEH-P1R to the lower-end decks.
The mark-up on Car stereo is tremendous. When I was a salesman at Circuit city 10 years ago, they mark up was from 80%-210% for items. Jbl and Infinity being on the higher side of mark-up. Basically take the retail price, cut it in 1/2 to 1/3 and that is the cost to a shop or Middle man. If you didn't know, this is how E-bay stores are able to sell Retail mechandise NEW for really cheap.
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03-29-2005, 09:25 PM
#11
Originally Posted by cjacks7
I can sell you the Focal 165a's for $240. I run a focal authorized shop, so you will get the full 3 year warranty.
Those would more than likely sound better than the Infinity Kappa Perfects. I haven't done a comparo or taken a long listen to the Kappa Perfects, but Focal's are a great speaker. GREAT speaker. At that price it's a viable option.
03-29-2005, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by unredeemed
I didn't say all stuff in big retail is crap. Just most.
Think ten years back when the PPI Art series amps were awesome. Soundstream Reference amps were quite amazing themselves. Alpine was considered high end. Sony didn't make that Xplod line of crap, and their ES line was really good.
In those ten years we've seen companies merge, go bankrupt, get bought out, etc.
There has really been little to no innovation in the past five years from the larger "big name," companies. It's really been up to the DIY crowd and true enthusiasts that have driven recent innovations. Adire, RE, TC Sounds, and a few others are what I think are innovative in their designs. They have also listened to what we want, and made it happen.
What's in the stores now is low technology, high margin items. I'll look up a deck I want, and call up some buddies to see what their shop cost is on it and I'm amazed at what items really cost. I recently had to replace my Terk XM-Micro antenna I bought from ebay for about $25, and a replacement from a local shop was $80. I was in a pinch and really wanted my XM service back up and just ate the loss. But it seems that we've gone from solid technology and decent pricing, to low technology and high margins.
While audio systems are about 75% installation, and 25% component choice. It's important to an extent that one does their research and looks outside of retail and looks in the little nooks and crannies of the Internet to see what the tweakers and DIY crowd are doing and which company is making that happen. Those are the companies I want buy my products from. Also to use the Internet as a resource and not gospel in which all is held true.
If one is technically minded, he/she could buy what they need from a greymarket re-seller and install them item themselves while saving upwards of 30%. All it costs is time. But at hte same time, you are correct that some are only looking for an upgrade from stock and are content with retail purchases and installations. Not I Soon I'll have some pictures and how-to's posted. Starting with a how to fiberglass, and a sound deadening tutorial. I may even write something up about making sub trim rings and MDF baffle rings if I have the time.
Think ten years back when the PPI Art series amps were awesome. Soundstream Reference amps were quite amazing themselves. Alpine was considered high end. Sony didn't make that Xplod line of crap, and their ES line was really good.
In those ten years we've seen companies merge, go bankrupt, get bought out, etc.
There has really been little to no innovation in the past five years from the larger "big name," companies. It's really been up to the DIY crowd and true enthusiasts that have driven recent innovations. Adire, RE, TC Sounds, and a few others are what I think are innovative in their designs. They have also listened to what we want, and made it happen.
What's in the stores now is low technology, high margin items. I'll look up a deck I want, and call up some buddies to see what their shop cost is on it and I'm amazed at what items really cost. I recently had to replace my Terk XM-Micro antenna I bought from ebay for about $25, and a replacement from a local shop was $80. I was in a pinch and really wanted my XM service back up and just ate the loss. But it seems that we've gone from solid technology and decent pricing, to low technology and high margins.
While audio systems are about 75% installation, and 25% component choice. It's important to an extent that one does their research and looks outside of retail and looks in the little nooks and crannies of the Internet to see what the tweakers and DIY crowd are doing and which company is making that happen. Those are the companies I want buy my products from. Also to use the Internet as a resource and not gospel in which all is held true.
If one is technically minded, he/she could buy what they need from a greymarket re-seller and install them item themselves while saving upwards of 30%. All it costs is time. But at hte same time, you are correct that some are only looking for an upgrade from stock and are content with retail purchases and installations. Not I
Soon I'll have some pictures and how-to's posted. Starting with a how to fiberglass, and a sound deadening tutorial. I may even write something up about making sub trim rings and MDF baffle rings if I have the time. I was reading your post and beginning to think "Wow! Someone on the internet who knows about "car audio" and not the typical internet guy. I guess I was wrong.
You mentioned Diamond as being a good company to look at, and I agree completely. I have used tons of Diamond speakers and swear by them. Some of the other companies I don't deal with so I can't judge, but it's because they are big on the internet selling, which you can see I am against.
You said that it's the small guys who make car audio interesting and intelligent shoppers, but then you bash retailers and say we have "high margins" and are basically getting rich of of you. That's absurd. I agree, big box stores such as Best Buy and Circuit City, etc suck. They hire uneducated sales people and even installers who try and tell people what they need in their car audio system.
But, you contradict yourself by bitching about prices and saying for people to buy **** online. I'll give you an example:
Most car audio speakers (midline) have a 100% markup (also known as 50 points.)
Diamond Audio HEX Components:
Dealer Cost : 277.00
Retail : 549.95
What is the product worth to you? You come in to my store, audition the speakers in a sound board which cost twice of what your entire car does. You can speak to someone who knows more car audio than any sain person should. And I can install the product for a reasonable price and you can feel safe knowing you have an awesome product which is worth EVERY penny you paid for it.
Let's say:
Scenario 1:
You purchase the Hex components from me for 499.00 + 50.00 to put them in your Chevy truck. I explain to you that for these to sound like they should you need a Dynamat door kit put in at the same time, another $70.00. You leave the store and spent 619.00 + tax (you already had a good amplifier running your speakers). 3 Days later you get drunk, and walk out to the truck to show your buddy your new speakers, turn it up way to loud and destroy the speakers. You go back to my shop, I pull it around replace the speakers and in an hour you are back on the road, with a little more information from me on "drunk stereo demonstrations."
Scenario 2:
You purchase the Hex components from cheapshit.com for 278.00 + 40.00 shipping. You don't know that you need sound deadoning to make these speakers perform (you have to have it, I don't think you'll argue that point with me) so you get away with 318.00 for your speakers.
a) you and your friend put them in, slip with a drill and rip a hole through the surround. Done, throw that **** in the trash now.
b) you put them in, and they don't have much midbass. Ohh, nobody told you about dynamat...
Now, you get drunk, bring your buddy out, and destroy the speakers. You go home, pull the speaker out and go online to find out how to send them back.
a) you realize the company is no longer online. No way to find them.
b) they tell you to **** off.
c) they give you an ra number, you mail them your blown speaker. They send it back and tell you it's abuse and to **** off.
d) they give you an ra number. You mail them off (4 days shipping) They let them sit on the floor for a couple weeks (14 days) then mail them to diamond audio (4 days) diamond sends them replacements after evaluating them (6 days) then they mail them back to you (4 days.) Total down time 32 business days, almost 2 months.
I bought **** online when I didn't know better. The internet can be a valuable tool, but use it correctly (just like you said) but don't purchase product online. You have someone selling **** out of their garage, they are not authorized dealers, it has no warranty (call any reputable manufacturer, they will tell you it has no warranty if not purchased from an authorized dealer.)
Tell me this. How do you know what to purchase? Do you read specs and pick which amp for the cheapest dollar has the lowest THD, or most power? Do you go off what people tell you to buy? In case you don't know manufacturers of mobile audio can rate their equipment however they want to. How else would sony be able to sell a "760 watt" amp that only makes 100 watts RMS?
The smart thing to do would to be to go into a store and listen to products and see what YOU think sounds good right? If you are torn between producs then ask for other peoples opinions on durability etc... Do where on the internet can you demo these people's products? You can't. So do you come into my store and listen to the products using my $100,000 sound board under my million dollar building using my salary and then buy it from someone online?
You gotta have morals right?
Don't think small shops are getting rich off of you guys, they are not. I make no money on radios. I pay 160.00 for a radio, sell it to you fro 219.00 and put it in for free. I make some money on woofers and amps, I make good money on dynamat and kits and harnesses, but it's all worth the money.
I'll be 100% honest with you.
I manage a VERY small car audio store in Norman, Oklahoma. We have a total of 4 employees including the owner of the shop. I am also the lead installer. Business is steady, enough to keep us busy, nothing "booming" but not to shrug at.
The shop had an income of $14,000.00 last year.
I only work 3 days a week at 24 hours a week with an annual salary of 25,000.00. I work a second job 2 days a week as my primary source of income. I work at the stereo shop because I like it. I go to college full time as well.
The guy up front makes about 30k a year.
The other installer makes about 10 bucks an hour.
The owner has a very modest salary, not much more than the salesman up front. He's cut his pay in half for months at a time when times get slow.
Trust me, nobody in these small shops is getting rich off you guys. Overhead is very high in car audio. In order for us to stay in business we have to make money too. Without us, aftermarket car audio wouldn't exist.
Just my little rant.
03-29-2005, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Richiec77
Damn. Well said. I agree with this 1000%. I use to have sound stream when it was a good company. I also use to believe totally in Kenwood, but they are starting to become a disapoinment.
Also I love Pioneers "Bang for the Buck" when It comes to features and realize that they also need to start inovating more because all they are doing is slowly introducing technology that is in my DEH-P1R to the lower-end decks.
The mark-up on Car stereo is tremendous. When I was a salesman at Circuit city 10 years ago, they mark up was from 80%-210% for items. Jbl and Infinity being on the higher side of mark-up. Basically take the retail price, cut it in 1/2 to 1/3 and that is the cost to a shop or Middle man. If you didn't know, this is how E-bay stores are able to sell Retail mechandise NEW for really cheap.
Also I love Pioneers "Bang for the Buck" when It comes to features and realize that they also need to start inovating more because all they are doing is slowly introducing technology that is in my DEH-P1R to the lower-end decks.
The mark-up on Car stereo is tremendous. When I was a salesman at Circuit city 10 years ago, they mark up was from 80%-210% for items. Jbl and Infinity being on the higher side of mark-up. Basically take the retail price, cut it in 1/2 to 1/3 and that is the cost to a shop or Middle man. If you didn't know, this is how E-bay stores are able to sell Retail mechandise NEW for really cheap.
03-30-2005, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by retsell
Come on man you are ****** killing me here.
I was reading your post and beginning to think "Wow! Someone on the internet who knows about "car audio" and not the typical internet guy. I guess I was wrong.
You mentioned Diamond as being a good company to look at, and I agree completely. I have used tons of Diamond speakers and swear by them. Some of the other companies I don't deal with so I can't judge, but it's because they are big on the internet selling, which you can see I am against.
You said that it's the small guys who make car audio interesting and intelligent shoppers, but then you bash retailers and say we have "high margins" and are basically getting rich of of you. That's absurd. I agree, big box stores such as Best Buy and Circuit City, etc suck. They hire uneducated sales people and even installers who try and tell people what they need in their car audio system.
But, you contradict yourself by bitching about prices and saying for people to buy **** online. I'll give you an example:
Most car audio speakers (midline) have a 100% markup (also known as 50 points.)
Diamond Audio HEX Components:
Dealer Cost : 277.00
Retail : 549.95
What is the product worth to you? You come in to my store, audition the speakers in a sound board which cost twice of what your entire car does. You can speak to someone who knows more car audio than any sain person should. And I can install the product for a reasonable price and you can feel safe knowing you have an awesome product which is worth EVERY penny you paid for it.
Let's say:
Scenario 1:
You purchase the Hex components from me for 499.00 + 50.00 to put them in your Chevy truck. I explain to you that for these to sound like they should you need a Dynamat door kit put in at the same time, another $70.00. You leave the store and spent 619.00 + tax (you already had a good amplifier running your speakers). 3 Days later you get drunk, and walk out to the truck to show your buddy your new speakers, turn it up way to loud and destroy the speakers. You go back to my shop, I pull it around replace the speakers and in an hour you are back on the road, with a little more information from me on "drunk stereo demonstrations."
Scenario 2:
You purchase the Hex components from cheapshit.com for 278.00 + 40.00 shipping. You don't know that you need sound deadoning to make these speakers perform (you have to have it, I don't think you'll argue that point with me) so you get away with 318.00 for your speakers.
a) you and your friend put them in, slip with a drill and rip a hole through the surround. Done, throw that **** in the trash now.
b) you put them in, and they don't have much midbass. Ohh, nobody told you about dynamat...
Now, you get drunk, bring your buddy out, and destroy the speakers. You go home, pull the speaker out and go online to find out how to send them back.
a) you realize the company is no longer online. No way to find them.
b) they tell you to **** off.
c) they give you an ra number, you mail them your blown speaker. They send it back and tell you it's abuse and to **** off.
d) they give you an ra number. You mail them off (4 days shipping) They let them sit on the floor for a couple weeks (14 days) then mail them to diamond audio (4 days) diamond sends them replacements after evaluating them (6 days) then they mail them back to you (4 days.) Total down time 32 business days, almost 2 months.
I bought **** online when I didn't know better. The internet can be a valuable tool, but use it correctly (just like you said) but don't purchase product online. You have someone selling **** out of their garage, they are not authorized dealers, it has no warranty (call any reputable manufacturer, they will tell you it has no warranty if not purchased from an authorized dealer.)
Tell me this. How do you know what to purchase? Do you read specs and pick which amp for the cheapest dollar has the lowest THD, or most power? Do you go off what people tell you to buy? In case you don't know manufacturers of mobile audio can rate their equipment however they want to. How else would sony be able to sell a "760 watt" amp that only makes 100 watts RMS?
The smart thing to do would to be to go into a store and listen to products and see what YOU think sounds good right? If you are torn between producs then ask for other peoples opinions on durability etc... Do where on the internet can you demo these people's products? You can't. So do you come into my store and listen to the products using my $100,000 sound board under my million dollar building using my salary and then buy it from someone online?
You gotta have morals right?
Don't think small shops are getting rich off of you guys, they are not. I make no money on radios. I pay 160.00 for a radio, sell it to you fro 219.00 and put it in for free. I make some money on woofers and amps, I make good money on dynamat and kits and harnesses, but it's all worth the money.
I'll be 100% honest with you.
I manage a VERY small car audio store in Norman, Oklahoma. We have a total of 4 employees including the owner of the shop. I am also the lead installer. Business is steady, enough to keep us busy, nothing "booming" but not to shrug at.
The shop had an income of $14,000.00 last year.
I only work 3 days a week at 24 hours a week with an annual salary of 25,000.00. I work a second job 2 days a week as my primary source of income. I work at the stereo shop because I like it. I go to college full time as well.
The guy up front makes about 30k a year.
The other installer makes about 10 bucks an hour.
The owner has a very modest salary, not much more than the salesman up front. He's cut his pay in half for months at a time when times get slow.
Trust me, nobody in these small shops is getting rich off you guys. Overhead is very high in car audio. In order for us to stay in business we have to make money too. Without us, aftermarket car audio wouldn't exist.
Just my little rant.
I was reading your post and beginning to think "Wow! Someone on the internet who knows about "car audio" and not the typical internet guy. I guess I was wrong.
You mentioned Diamond as being a good company to look at, and I agree completely. I have used tons of Diamond speakers and swear by them. Some of the other companies I don't deal with so I can't judge, but it's because they are big on the internet selling, which you can see I am against.
You said that it's the small guys who make car audio interesting and intelligent shoppers, but then you bash retailers and say we have "high margins" and are basically getting rich of of you. That's absurd. I agree, big box stores such as Best Buy and Circuit City, etc suck. They hire uneducated sales people and even installers who try and tell people what they need in their car audio system.
But, you contradict yourself by bitching about prices and saying for people to buy **** online. I'll give you an example:
Most car audio speakers (midline) have a 100% markup (also known as 50 points.)
Diamond Audio HEX Components:
Dealer Cost : 277.00
Retail : 549.95
What is the product worth to you? You come in to my store, audition the speakers in a sound board which cost twice of what your entire car does. You can speak to someone who knows more car audio than any sain person should. And I can install the product for a reasonable price and you can feel safe knowing you have an awesome product which is worth EVERY penny you paid for it.
Let's say:
Scenario 1:
You purchase the Hex components from me for 499.00 + 50.00 to put them in your Chevy truck. I explain to you that for these to sound like they should you need a Dynamat door kit put in at the same time, another $70.00. You leave the store and spent 619.00 + tax (you already had a good amplifier running your speakers). 3 Days later you get drunk, and walk out to the truck to show your buddy your new speakers, turn it up way to loud and destroy the speakers. You go back to my shop, I pull it around replace the speakers and in an hour you are back on the road, with a little more information from me on "drunk stereo demonstrations."
Scenario 2:
You purchase the Hex components from cheapshit.com for 278.00 + 40.00 shipping. You don't know that you need sound deadoning to make these speakers perform (you have to have it, I don't think you'll argue that point with me) so you get away with 318.00 for your speakers.
a) you and your friend put them in, slip with a drill and rip a hole through the surround. Done, throw that **** in the trash now.
b) you put them in, and they don't have much midbass. Ohh, nobody told you about dynamat...
Now, you get drunk, bring your buddy out, and destroy the speakers. You go home, pull the speaker out and go online to find out how to send them back.
a) you realize the company is no longer online. No way to find them.
b) they tell you to **** off.
c) they give you an ra number, you mail them your blown speaker. They send it back and tell you it's abuse and to **** off.
d) they give you an ra number. You mail them off (4 days shipping) They let them sit on the floor for a couple weeks (14 days) then mail them to diamond audio (4 days) diamond sends them replacements after evaluating them (6 days) then they mail them back to you (4 days.) Total down time 32 business days, almost 2 months.
I bought **** online when I didn't know better. The internet can be a valuable tool, but use it correctly (just like you said) but don't purchase product online. You have someone selling **** out of their garage, they are not authorized dealers, it has no warranty (call any reputable manufacturer, they will tell you it has no warranty if not purchased from an authorized dealer.)
Tell me this. How do you know what to purchase? Do you read specs and pick which amp for the cheapest dollar has the lowest THD, or most power? Do you go off what people tell you to buy? In case you don't know manufacturers of mobile audio can rate their equipment however they want to. How else would sony be able to sell a "760 watt" amp that only makes 100 watts RMS?
The smart thing to do would to be to go into a store and listen to products and see what YOU think sounds good right? If you are torn between producs then ask for other peoples opinions on durability etc... Do where on the internet can you demo these people's products? You can't. So do you come into my store and listen to the products using my $100,000 sound board under my million dollar building using my salary and then buy it from someone online?
You gotta have morals right?
Don't think small shops are getting rich off of you guys, they are not. I make no money on radios. I pay 160.00 for a radio, sell it to you fro 219.00 and put it in for free. I make some money on woofers and amps, I make good money on dynamat and kits and harnesses, but it's all worth the money.
I'll be 100% honest with you.
I manage a VERY small car audio store in Norman, Oklahoma. We have a total of 4 employees including the owner of the shop. I am also the lead installer. Business is steady, enough to keep us busy, nothing "booming" but not to shrug at.
The shop had an income of $14,000.00 last year.
I only work 3 days a week at 24 hours a week with an annual salary of 25,000.00. I work a second job 2 days a week as my primary source of income. I work at the stereo shop because I like it. I go to college full time as well.
The guy up front makes about 30k a year.
The other installer makes about 10 bucks an hour.
The owner has a very modest salary, not much more than the salesman up front. He's cut his pay in half for months at a time when times get slow.
Trust me, nobody in these small shops is getting rich off you guys. Overhead is very high in car audio. In order for us to stay in business we have to make money too. Without us, aftermarket car audio wouldn't exist.
Just my little rant.
03-30-2005, 10:59 PM
#15
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i just went on a rant in another thread, i'm not going to get off topic here. I think I may make a post one of these days where we can all debate the pros and cons of internet sales until we all turn blue.
03-31-2005, 03:29 AM
#16
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You guys all bring up excellent points here.
Ryan, I agree with you in that your shop provides a service that can't possibly be obtained via internet. Then again, I was one of those guys in the mid-90's that was sweating his *** off in a high-end car audio shop, so I'd buy off the internet cuz I *do* know the value of DynaMat, and have run the screwdriver tip into enough surrounds to not do it anymore. But I would not buy something off the internet if I didn't feel confident that I knew what the hell I was doing - I'd definately want a human to go to, and a local shop provides that - thankfully there's still some of those around!!
2muchricemakesmesick, I sure do agree with what you said too. Everyone's tastes are different, so a consumer needs to listen to what they're buying before they buy it. Would anyone buy shoes without trying them on first?!? And yeah, I've always been a big fan of Quarts, as well as Infinity. You obviously know your ****. Guess that's why you don't drive a Subaru, huh?
Richie, you're right about most people wanting something 'just a little better than stock'. I used to think that anyone who would ask me about car audio wanted what I had - 6 amps, 12" subs, etc. etc. etc... Reality set in with maturity, and the fact of the matter is that a sub is generally all that's required. It's the rest of us with the more discering tastes that make up that last 5%. Props to you for keepin it real.
So, to sum up what everyone's already said, listen to a bunch of stuff, shop around, stay away from the big chain stores (they don't know ****, and won't help you when you need it), and keep your eye on forums like this one - I've certainly learned alot in the past few weeks from here!!!
Now, my rant. Why the hell doesn't anyone make an aftermarket indash that doesn't have all the friggin' disco lites all over it? I mean, C'mon people, the factory indash has nice big buttons, a simple display, and it's aesthetically appealling. This new crap doesn't sound half as good as my good ole Alpine 7903 (too bad Alpine sux now), and has more flashy **** on it than a friggin nite club dance floor!! I think that's one of the main reason's I'm working on an in-car PC. Touch-screen, large, simple buttons, excellent sound, and oh yeah, LS1-Edit
Ryan, I agree with you in that your shop provides a service that can't possibly be obtained via internet. Then again, I was one of those guys in the mid-90's that was sweating his *** off in a high-end car audio shop, so I'd buy off the internet cuz I *do* know the value of DynaMat, and have run the screwdriver tip into enough surrounds to not do it anymore. But I would not buy something off the internet if I didn't feel confident that I knew what the hell I was doing - I'd definately want a human to go to, and a local shop provides that - thankfully there's still some of those around!!
2muchricemakesmesick, I sure do agree with what you said too. Everyone's tastes are different, so a consumer needs to listen to what they're buying before they buy it. Would anyone buy shoes without trying them on first?!? And yeah, I've always been a big fan of Quarts, as well as Infinity. You obviously know your ****. Guess that's why you don't drive a Subaru, huh?
Richie, you're right about most people wanting something 'just a little better than stock'. I used to think that anyone who would ask me about car audio wanted what I had - 6 amps, 12" subs, etc. etc. etc... Reality set in with maturity, and the fact of the matter is that a sub is generally all that's required. It's the rest of us with the more discering tastes that make up that last 5%. Props to you for keepin it real.
So, to sum up what everyone's already said, listen to a bunch of stuff, shop around, stay away from the big chain stores (they don't know ****, and won't help you when you need it), and keep your eye on forums like this one - I've certainly learned alot in the past few weeks from here!!!
Now, my rant. Why the hell doesn't anyone make an aftermarket indash that doesn't have all the friggin' disco lites all over it? I mean, C'mon people, the factory indash has nice big buttons, a simple display, and it's aesthetically appealling. This new crap doesn't sound half as good as my good ole Alpine 7903 (too bad Alpine sux now), and has more flashy **** on it than a friggin nite club dance floor!! I think that's one of the main reason's I'm working on an in-car PC. Touch-screen, large, simple buttons, excellent sound, and oh yeah, LS1-Edit
03-31-2005, 06:30 AM
#18
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Your best bet would be to go and listen to as much as you can, then research them somewhat online and make your own discision. Everyone likes something different, but people hear different, something might sound like *** to me and you may love it. Are you building your stereo for me or you? that's my .02.
Also, I just installed some of the Pioneer Premier 6.5" components, I think they sound awesome. Very loud, very clear, very clean. You can obviously tell a difference between them and a 500-1k set of Diamond or MB Quart, but for the price I am very pleased.
Also, I just installed some of the Pioneer Premier 6.5" components, I think they sound awesome. Very loud, very clear, very clean. You can obviously tell a difference between them and a 500-1k set of Diamond or MB Quart, but for the price I am very pleased.
03-31-2005, 08:07 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick
This whole thread has gone 
Where is erkki, the creator of this thread?
Where is erkki, the creator of this thread?
Thanks for the replies guys, and I'm going today to listen to some speakers.
Has anyone used the components made by Elemental Designs? If so, what do you think? Also, has anyone heard of a company called DBDrive? There is a shop here who swears by them, but I can't find a review online.
Thanks again,
Eric
PS: crazy3gz, your 3rd gen looks sweet. Do you have a website with more pics?
03-31-2005, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Daley
You guys all bring up excellent points here.
Now, my rant. Why the hell doesn't anyone make an aftermarket indash that doesn't have all the friggin' disco lites all over it? I mean, C'mon people, the factory indash has nice big buttons, a simple display, and it's aesthetically appealling. This new crap doesn't sound half as good as my good ole Alpine 7903 (too bad Alpine sux now), and has more flashy **** on it than a friggin nite club dance floor!! I think that's one of the main reason's I'm working on an in-car PC. Touch-screen, large, simple buttons, excellent sound, and oh yeah, LS1-Edit
Now, my rant. Why the hell doesn't anyone make an aftermarket indash that doesn't have all the friggin' disco lites all over it? I mean, C'mon people, the factory indash has nice big buttons, a simple display, and it's aesthetically appealling. This new crap doesn't sound half as good as my good ole Alpine 7903 (too bad Alpine sux now), and has more flashy **** on it than a friggin nite club dance floor!! I think that's one of the main reason's I'm working on an in-car PC. Touch-screen, large, simple buttons, excellent sound, and oh yeah, LS1-Edit