OldBBody

Hi Everyone.

Long time lurker... but total forum newb here...

I have a 93 Caprice that I want to swap an LSX series engine into because the worthless TBI engine it came with finally went south. So rather then replacing it with inferior 20 year old FI technology... I am wondering what model LSX engine would be best for my application.

I have been primarily looking at the 5.3 and 6.0 truck engines but there are so many versions of these engines! LM7, LY5, LQ4, LQ9... etc...etc...

The Caprice is a large car and I would love the 6.0 but due to budgetary reasons.. I am leaning toward the 5.3 for right now. I'll also have to initially use my 4L60 (non-e) trans because it has had a recent rebuild and I can't afford a 4L60e/4L80e right away.

Of course... most people have said that the 5.3 is a great "bang for the buck" engine and will make great numbers but would be better suited in a smaller car... Camaro... Firebird... GTO... but the power numbers aren't a high priority because this will primarily be a street car with no foreseeable track time whatsoever. I want a street-able car that will have WAY more power then the pathetic 180 hp TBI engine it came with.

So.. aside from the 5.3 or 6.0 question.. what model year engine is the best? The 5.3 has multiple versions... and I have been looking at 07 and up model years. There are a ton of differences but my biggest question is... WHAT years should I steer away from? I know the earlier model truck engines had some piston slap problems and I don't want that.. so... are there any versions I should steer totally away from?

I'll have some other questions but for now I'll just go with these.

Thank you very much for reading this and for any advice you can offer.

JB

Thought I would post a picture of my Caprice that I intend to swap an LSx engine into...

i r teh noobz

iTrader: (4)

As far as I know, the only ones to avoid are the 98 LS1s (mostly just the PCM) and the early 6.0s with the iron heads.

A stock 5.3 won't turn your car into a rocket ship, but it will be a nice increase over the old engine. Add in a cam and some bolt-ons and you should have a fun ride.

If you're keeping the 700R4, you may not be able to use the VVT on the newer engines. Perhaps someone else can chime in on that. If that's the case, you may be better off saving some cash and getting an older engine.

6.0Nova?

A 5.3 would be "enough"....at 140hp more than the TBI motor, the first test drive ought to feel like strapping into the space shuttle.

If you want to use the 700R4, it is really only practical with cable throttle, which limits you to Gen3 motors (no VVT) or a Gen4 motor with a Gen3 PCM and a Lingenfelter conver$ion box (and still no VVT).

Personally, I'd be tempted to gather up all the receipts for the 700R4 rebuild and advertise it as "can be test driven" for $350 or so. Then, do a Gen4 VVT engine and trans swap.

OldBBody

Hey guys,

Thanks alot. That all sounds like solid advice!

I admit I am in the planning stages and this is the kind of info I need.

I don't really WANT to use the 700R4 but I thought it would work for now because the 5.3 can be had for so cheap... I thought the cool thing would be that the car could be wired up for the LSX series engine in case I want to swap out to a bigger/badder set up later.... because the computer and associated things would mostly already be there.

From most of the things I have read though... it would be a better plan to wait until I find the right deal and get a 6.0 with a 4L60/4L80. that way I can just do it all together at once and not worry about a temp. solution. The problem is that is always comes down to budget and I realize these things can nickel and dime you to death.

Waiting wouldn't be a big deal.. the car is just sitting... I have a daily driver... I am just getting that itch to drive my BBody. I miss driving it and I hate that its just been sitting. I am sure you guys understand.. sometime these things move slower then we would like and the waiting game gets painful!

If anyone has anything to add.. please feel free to chime in. I am all ears and I need to consider all options.

I would be really glad to hear about some dependable combos some of you might have already put together. When the time comes.. I want a solid plan and the ability to execute it properly without guessing.

BTW.. I am still kind of confused about the differences in the front accessories. F body stuff is better right? Truck parts won't fit due to the alternator being too high and the Vette stuff has a slightly different set up... is this about right?

Thanks again.

JB

OldBBody

Also.. one more question...

How does one go about cooling these engines when doing a conversion? What fluid do you use?

Here's the thing:

In 1991-1993... the B Body's had a brass/copper radiator and a brass/copper heater core because they used old school green coolant.

In 1994-1996... the B Body's had an aluminum radiator and an aluminum heater core because they used Dex Cool coolant.

Seeing that many of these LSx engines use aluminum heads... it would seem that I will need to use Dex Cool and swap my heater core and rad to aluminum... correct?

Old School green is NOT for Aluminum right?

Thank you.

JB

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

I've used the old school green stuff with an aluminum radiator and engine. I wasn't supposed to? LOL

Andrew

OldBBody

I just thought there was differences... some fluids don't have the same corrosion inhibitors that certain metals need.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...oducts/1272436

"How about just pouring orange antifreeze into every cooling system, say, yours? Sorry, but it's not that simple. The new organic acid antifreezes may be used only if the cooling system has an aluminum radiator (rather than copper-and-brass)."

"Now let's look at "retrofit" and "drain and fill" and explain what you can and can't do safely, and a bit of why. If a vehicle has a copper-and-brass radiator, forget a retrofit, says General Motors, because the organic acid (orange) antifreeze may not provide adequate protection for the lead solder in that radiator."

Anyone have thoughts on this?

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Green has been used since the begining of time.. with both Brass and Aluminum in the cooling system. (heads, radiator and heater cords).

Just a word of warning.. do not mix Dex with Green.. if converting over from Dex to Green. Make sure your system is fully flushed clean.. else you will have a big mess in the system.

I use Green in my Conversion and other cars.. only one that is still Dex is my 99 Tahoe. .only because it has it...

OldBBody

What was wrong with the iron head on the early 6.0's?

OldBBody

Thank you for your reply bczee. I wasn't 100% sure.

Do the present day LSx engine still run Dex Cool or has GM switched to something else? I know they had a lot of problems with it. It would sludge up if mixed or if it had a leak in the system... air getting in would really screw it up.

If I am going to do this.. I just want to make sure I do it right.

OldBBody

Does anyone have any comments on what version engine they like the most? I have been doing a lot of reading about the Aluminum variants of the 5.3 and 6.0.

I can see the weight difference being a big advantage for racing but seeing that my BBody weighs 4200+ lbs already... not sure if a hundred lbs less is going to really make a huge difference. On the other hand saving some weight in the front will help with one were to go with a 4L80.. because those things are huge!!!

GA95DCMSS

iTrader: (13)

I like my 6.0 in a b-body personally, but im kinda biased. Going aluminum isnt gonna, hurt anything but I went Iron due to a deal that i couldnt pass up. Either way, im sure youd like it.

wildcamaro

iTrader: (15)

I would say the best LSX engine for you by far would be an ls1/ls6/ls2/ls3 by far just based on the weight of your big ole bigbody caprice. The engines i listed will all be all aluminum like the block, heads, and all. They also make a high output aluminum 5.3 called l33, but id say you need at least a 5.7L engine because cubes are what get a big body moving, the down low torque. I am using an L33 right now on my camaro project, because i plan on revvin it up high with a manual trans. Your car however is heavy and prob has an auto trans, so you dont want an engine that makes power up high in the rev range as much as you NEED an engine that produces some stout bottom end torque that will get your car off the line and hauling the mail! I will say a 6.0 would also work based on the higher cubic inches, but still isnt as nice as an all aluminum ls2. I would hold out to get one of the aluminum block motors for sure! good luck man!

OldBBody

I was thinking maybe doing both actually.... what do you think about an aluminum 5.3L like the LM4, L33, LH6, or LC9???

They are a bit more expensive then the garden variety LM7 or LMG but not as expensive as the aluminum 6.0.

So... an aluminum 5.3 it may not put out all the power but will still have the weight saving advantage?

Do you think this is a good or bad idea?

OldBBody

Dude.. you totally got a point here.. I mean.. beleive me if i could afford a REAL LS series engine.. I would be all over it but they are still far more expensive the its LSx siblings.

I also completely agree with you on the stout bottom end 6.0L engine.. they are made to push around a giant Escalade and would be a natural fit for my Caprice.. its just the overall cost of them.. just the engines with between 45K-60K miles go for $4500-$6000 without a trans. I would REALLY like to spend 3000 on a 40K engine and trans combo because I want to stay around the $6k mark for the total package.

Do you think a aluminum 5.3 would be a bad idea? I mean.. it also offers the weight savings and some decent power. Remember.. I am not going for a drag strip screamer but I want to give my Caprice a REAL shot in the arm... meaning a mild 5.3 might be all I can afford.

Barring a miracle... I am probably not going to be able to get a full tilt 6.0. I would love that but... I am thinking about a practical engine package that has some umph because the goal is to get this old B Body rolling again... instead of sitting for the last 4 years... it sucks to see it just sit there! Every time I roll up the garage door... I look at it, roll my eyes and sigh VERY loudly.. LOL...

SIKHS 5

I got my LQ4(30K Miles - DBW, Iron Block, Aluminum Heads), Harness Made W/ A Simple Minimum 3 Wire Hookup to Start It, Bench Tuned to 91 Octane(Bunch of stuff like "Torque Management" Disabled, Higher RedLine, Idle, Compression Checked, etc.), and she came looking brand new! All for $3500(I personally thought it was really expensive at the time). Then I found my 4L80E trans locally(90K Miles of Use - 2500 Express Van), and picked it up for $350 + it came with the original torque converter.

You could pick up a turnkey 5.3 and a 4L80E combo for less than 3K

Where are you located?

OldBBody

I am in S.E. WI.

I don't want to spend $3500 for JUST an engine... that is just too much. I have found the aluminum 5.3 with a 4L60e trans for $1500-$2000... the iron 5.3 can be had for much much less as well... so... my budget is calling for a 5.3 because the install is going to cost at least $2800-3200 with tune. Plus I know I am going to need to locate the proper accessory drive kit as well.

I am planning on having it installed and I have been quoted between $2800-$3200 for labor on the install without the engine/trans combo. So... you can see how a $3500 LQ series engine and a $350 trans would push my budget over $7K. I am looking at spending a lot less on the engine/trans combo... also.. not 100% sure the 4L80 would even fit without modifying the trans tunnel. There again... more money spent on mod'ing the tunnel.

I have read time and time again... these swaps will nickel and dime you to death... and I want to stay around a $5K or so budget...

Here's the thing... I already have my 4L60 (non-e) that I want to use for a little while and this will help me avoid getting another trans. The 4L60 won't last behind a 6.0. Besides... the power level I am looking at will at least allow me to use the trans I have temporarily until I can get an "E" version trans later.

These are just some of my main reasons for a 5.3 instead a 6.0.

salemetro

iTrader: (5)

I'm going to have to repeat what you already know: Go with the L33, given your budget. 320hp from the factory is nothing to shake a stick at, and a 5308 cam swap will help out if you're looking for a cheap upgrade. You should be into the engine, wiring, cam upgrade and pcm for less than $2k if you shop around. Not bad at all.

Not your "ideal" setup, but a far cry from what you had.

OldBBody

Salemetro.. thank you for confirming my logic man... its seems like a solid approach to go with an aluminum block 5.3. You suggest the L33? I need to look into what vehicles come with that engine then.

I feel like I need to put this idea of mine into better perspective. The Impala SS from 94-96 had an LT1 with 260 hp.. and the guys were doing bolt-on's to get it to the 315-320HP rating the L33 has from the factory!!!!

Now.. lets entertain the idea of putting a better cam in it, an intake, a set of headers with a PCM tune and this should get it to the 350hp or so range at least right? (Maybe even a touch more?) Again... it doesn't have to be a screamer but seeing that my girlfriends Trail Blazer has an inline 6 cylinder... and its faster then my caprice ever was... a combo like this should make my Caprice a great cruiser with a little added umph!!!

BTW... I read both of your threads and your Miata build looks way way cool!!!!

OldBBody

I know everyone and their mother has seen this article....

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ine/index.html

... but they used a carb in the testing... is adding 120 hp with heads, an LS intake and FI possible?