Gen 5 Camaro External Bolt-On Tech - Holding Out for 2014 Gen6 Camaro SS

Better gas milage, Smaller and lighter body, More nimble.

Remember the Turbo Charged V6 Grand National Buick. Sounded like a bumblebee, but very quick/fast.

In the newest MT, a GM vp mentions how one engine for the new ATS (which the Camaro will be based on) is the 3.6 DI V6 with twin turbos and 415hp . . . would make a nice Camaro motor if the weight was better than what it is now . . .

I'm sorry. Part of owning a camaro is hearing the v-8 under the hood. Give me the v-8 over the twin turbo 6 anyday.

What he said ^

uhh does anyone have pics of this concept i searched it and it looks like a cavalier

I'm sorry. Part of owning a camaro is hearing the v-8 under the hood. Give me the v-8 over the twin turbo 6 anyday.

QFT! A camaro without a v8 is no camaro at all. I dont care how fast it is. sorry.

QFT! A camaro without a v8 is no camaro at all. I dont care how fast it is. sorry.

No V8, no purchase. I don't care how fast the turbo six is, you'd be killing the name.

If they plan on making a twin turbo v-6 camaro as their SS they they might as well not even make it at all! And from the concept i found i would definately not make it.

uhh does anyone have pics of this concept i searched it and it looks like a cavalier

So you found the pictures of the Chevy Cruze too lol

415 hp stock means at least 50 more with just a tune up.
I have had 3 Turbo Regals and never felt the need for a v8 when
driving one, unless she was hungry of course.

a turbo v6 option is ok. i still want a large cube v8 to be available.

I'd still take a slow v8 over a fast 6 as well. It's just part of the cars heritage, sure it was optioned with a v6, but the "performance" models always had a v8. Why get a big, v8 styled muscle car if you are looking for 6 power?

I'd take a 300ZX, 3000gt VR4, Supra, STI, BMW, etc. if you are looking for a "zippy" 6/4 kind of car.

Kind of like the "well gas mileage needs improvement, let's put a 4/6 in the corvette...". Who wants that? Didn't they try the same with the Mustang II?

thread is useless without pics or a link

uhh does anyone have pics of this concept i searched it and it looks like a cavalier

That was a car someone made in China, not a real concept.

This thread fails.

Better gas milage, Smaller and lighter body, More nimble.

That sounds familar. It once lead to making this badass muscle car:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/RPM_CamaroZ/Nova1-14-10004.jpg

....look and behave like THIS mechanical asshole:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/RPM_CamaroZ/87Nova.jpg

In other words, "progress" isn't always a good thing. I'll stick to my pushrod V8 Camaros (and Novas), thanx.

To the OP: Not trying to sound like a jerk, but have we heard anything about the next-gen Camaro yet?? We just met this 5th-Gen last year, so how can we know anything about a 6th gen?? I personally would think we wouldnt have even an inkling of a hint of what a 6th-gen Camaro would look like or how it'll be spec'd out until we see a C7 Corvette production model.
-On that note... you want faster, lighter, and more nimble? Sounds like you should be looking into a used LS3 Corvette. For as well as this 5th-gen car handles compared to, say, a stock 4th-gen, a Camaro will always be first and foremost a stoplight-racer and badass street car.
-Which is fine by me. And by the numbers it's selling, I think GM is onto a decent thing with this Camaro, they're selling pretty well.

The camaro needs to have a v8 plain and simple.

Nice lookin 71' RPM

I have to keep an eye on this. I agree with the others, no v8 then they might as well kill off the camaro. We have legions of little 4 and 6 bangers out there. It would be an insult to the camaro's heritage. I might have to buy a 5th gen sooner than I planned if this happens!

The new Camaro should be about the size of the Cobalt, 2800lbs, V6 Turbo, 425hp, and cost about $25,000.00. GM needs to move forward first, and be the industry leader in design and thinking. The new Camaro is a joke and should be replaced by something that is unique and forward thinking.
I can`t believe that Chevy designers and engineers don`t see this, but I guess this is why they are struggling.

I typed the above stuff to ruffle some feathers and have a little fun, but after thinking about it some more , it makes sense.

The future in car performance will be lightweight cars with highly efficient motors that use the latest technology to make power.

I still love my F-body that has a nasty V8 under the hood; Nothing beats an American V8 powered car. For now anyway.

this makes 0 sense to msot of us. i aint ehard about a gen 6 yet.

links pics confirmed yes or no?

I do agree that the reason people buy a car like a camaro ss is for that v8 feel and sound. No doudt GN were wicked and i love the turbo 6 but not in a camaro or vette if they want to make a car like that do it with a different car. I think it would be cool to have a turbo 6 as an option though like in the 350 to 380hp range and 2 v8s first in the 450 to 480hp range the big one in the 550hp. With all this new tech why cant they make the v8s more efficent with direct injection or somthing. So yea pretty much a camaro isnt a camaro without a v8 in the line up if gm doesnt feel the same they should just kill it off again imo.

:confused: I can't imagine that government motors has done much thinking on a replacement for the current Camaro when it took them ~seven years to pop out a replacement for the 4th gen.

The new Camaro should be about the size of the Cobalt, 2800lbs, V6 Turbo, 425hp, and cost about $25,000.00. GM needs to move forward first, and be the industry leader in design and thinking. The new Camaro is a joke and should be replaced by something that is unique and forward thinking.
I can`t believe that Chevy designers and engineers don`t see this, but I guess this is why they are struggling.

1.) I don't think a turbo V6 would fit under the hood of a cobalt size car (consider the turbo(s), piping, intercooler(s) and the extra bulk from it being DOHC...) An LSx type engine would be smaller, lighter, cheaper and just as powerful.
2.) Good luck getting the car to cost $25,000 with a 400hp+ turbo 6. Take a look at what kind of power cars in the $20-30K range make...

Now not to swing on the nuts of the designers, but they are only working with what they have. GM doesn't currently have the money for a whole new platform like that, let alone a whole new (expensive) engine and drive train.


The future in car performance will be lightweight cars with highly efficient motors that use the latest technology to make power.

I agree, and thats exactly why GM has stuck with their pushrod V8s, they are smaller, lighter, and cheaper than the OHC engines they compete against while also making more power.
There is a reason you see people swapping in LSx's in every car now adays instead of the other way around.
Below is a picture of the VQ35 (Nissan 3.5L V6) next to an LS2. Do you see what Im saying now?
http://harrismarine.co.nz/bbpress/?bb_attachments=750&bbat=551&inline

I was just stirring the pot a little.
I do think that weight reduction will be the next factory performance goal, and direct injection will be a big player in the next few years.

That is a cool picture of the Nissan V6 and the LS motors, that Nissan motor looks like shit.

The new Camaro should be about the size of the Cobalt, 2800lbs, V6 Turbo, 425hp, and cost about $25,000.00. GM needs to move forward first, and be the industry leader in design and thinking. The new Camaro is a joke and should be replaced by something that is unique and forward thinking.
I can`t believe that Chevy designers and engineers don`t see this, but I guess this is why they are struggling.

I typed the above stuff to ruffle some feathers and have a little fun, but after thinking about it some more , it makes sense.

The future in car performance will be lightweight cars with highly efficient motors that use the latest technology to make power.

I still love my F-body that has a nasty V8 under the hood; Nothing beats an American V8 powered car. For now anyway.

It sounds like you described in the first paragraph what Dodge was trying to do with the SRT-4. I don't believe the automakers can squeeze not only 425 hp into a compact car with only 2800 lbs, but do it for 25k and give a factory warranty on top of it. On paper, yes it sounds like a good idea, but turning that into something in the real worlds probably not possible. Also think about all the safety standards, EPA standards and all the other bullshit requirements they have to meet. GM is already ahead of the curve offering a V6 with a power and mileage combo. Look how Ford's scrambling to try and outdo it because of how well its percieved in the publics eye, and Dodge is completly in the dust in this one probably never catching up. Remember, it's a Camaro. Not a Camaro STI or Camaro Evolution. The car has a heritage, and that's what people will want from it.
Dodge is one of the only ones that comes to mind that had a car with a heritage, threw it out the window and still made a great seller out of it (Charger) Why butcher the new Camaro by trying something new and maybe hitting or maybe missing horribly? GM is keeping Buick solely for its sales in China(from what I can understand), why not try and make that unappealing brand something to want by offering a 2012 Buick Grand National? Then again, thats all my opinion. Sorry for the long ass post

i think whatever the future holds they better start shaving off weight. it doesnt matter how much power you add if they keep adding more shit to weigh it down

i think whatever the future holds they better start shaving off weight. it doesnt matter how much power you add if they keep adding more shit to weigh it down

True. Look at the Challenger. That pig needs a diet bad. Especially since the 2010 Mustang will have similar hp and probably like 300-500 lbs less

From the looks of the sales they do not need to do anything different.

Selling over 100k cars in a year, in an economy like this, is nothing short of amazing.

First thing they need to do with the camaro, is put a solid 12 bolt axle in it and ditch the POS IRS. That's #1, #2 they need to stop putting 14 computers in the car, ditch the drive by wire and all the other computrized crap, That alone will pull 200 lbs out of the car, and make it easy to work on. The use of alum or carbon body panels, also would be a good move.

What he said ^

First thing they need to do with the camaro, is put a solid 12 bolt axle in it and ditch the POS IRS. That's #1, #2 they need to stop putting 14 computers in the car, ditch the drive by wire and all the other computrized crap, That alone will pull 200 lbs out of the car, and make it easy to work on. The use of alum or carbon body panels, also would be a good move.

Are you aware not everyone buys a Camaro to go down a 1/4 mile and some want to enjoy the ride on the road? IRS is perfect for 98% of buyers who won't spent all of their free time modding and worrying about dialing in a solid axle. And somehow I doubt the lines of code needed to control a throttle by wire set up is very heavy. I would blame things like the onstar system and the comical 21 inch wheels. And I'm sure a Camaro made of carbon fiber or aluminum would be cost effective. :confused:

I forgot one other thing, brakes that will clear a 15 inch wheel front and rear. If the smaller diameter doesn't give the needed braking capability, put another piston in the caliper! The 21 inch wheels are fine, they leave us room for a 30 inch drag radial or a 29.5 slick, that's fine, wheel cutouts are perfect sized... they just need to put a brake on that will clear the average 15 inch drag rim. Hell put 2 small calipers on if that's what's needed to get the desired braking.

99Tara, I have a couple contacts at GM, and one thing that they have gotten alot of flack about IS THE IRS. People DON'T WANT IT. They had it on a gto and have it on the vette, this car, from what the GM contact I have told me... is what the public wants so they can go have fun, beat it up, etc, and not worry about it BREAKING. And the public, also wants to MOD it and make more power.

That's what his general consensus was, and that's coming from someone in GM racing... I think he has a pretty good handle on what the publie wants.

Cheaper price, a solid axle (12 bolt), and not so much in the computer department.. they want an available cloth seat stripper, with the biggest motor that GM can stuff in it.

Sure the lower end cars will always sell, but from the performance side, that's what the publie wants.

Look @ ford, they put the IRS in the 03 and 04 cobra only to dump it as soon as the new body style came out. Think about it... they wouldn't have tossed all that R&D if it was what people wanted.

http://files.phauxcamus.com/images/picard-facepalm.jpg
I forgot one other thing, brakes that will clear a 15 inch wheel front and rear. If the smaller diameter doesn't give the needed braking capability, put another piston in the caliper! The 21 inch wheels are fine, they leave us room for a 30 inch drag radial or a 29.5 slick, that's fine, wheel cutouts are perfect sized... they just need to put a brake on that will clear the average 15 inch drag rim. Hell put 2 small calipers on if that's what's needed to get the desired braking.

Or better yet just change out the brakes since you are going backwards on the engineering put into the car by drag racing it anyway.
The Camaro is now designed as a world class car, not a boring strait-line-only car. If you want to make it into a one trick pony go right ahead, but don't bitch at the engineers for making it good at performing more than just in a strait line.


99Tara, I have a couple contacts at GM, and one thing that they have gotten alot of flack about IS THE IRS. People DON'T WANT IT. They had it on a gto and have it on the vette, this car, from what the GM contact I have told me... is what the public wants so they can go have fun, beat it up, etc, and not worry about it BREAKING. And the public, also wants to MOD it and make more power.

Funny, its seems one of the only things the Mustang gets flack about now-adays is the fact it doesn't have IRS, while its competitors do.
Worry about breaking? Like the stock solid axles in the 4th gens? No thanks, give me a properly designed IRS any day of the week. So far its lasted with WAY more power than the 10 bolt ever has.


That's what his general consensus was, and that's coming from someone in GM racing... I think he has a pretty good handle on what the publie wants.

Im going to highly disagree. Maybe some of the hardcore drag racing community wants that, but everyone else would rather have better ride and handling with IRS.


Look @ ford, they put the IRS in the 03 and 04 cobra only to dump it as soon as the new body style came out. Think about it... they wouldn't have tossed all that R&D if it was what people wanted.
A weak attempt and a poor example of an IRS. Ford went back to a solid axle because of cost.

I forgot one other thing, brakes that will clear a 15 inch wheel front and rear. If the smaller diameter doesn't give the needed braking capability, put another piston in the caliper! The 21 inch wheels are fine, they leave us room for a 30 inch drag radial or a 29.5 slick, that's fine, wheel cutouts are perfect sized... they just need to put a brake on that will clear the average 15 inch drag rim. Hell put 2 small calipers on if that's what's needed to get the desired braking.

If the damn thing didn't weigh 4000lbs it wouldn't need the huge breaks.

99Tara, I have a couple contacts at GM, and one thing that they have gotten alot of flack about IS THE IRS. People DON'T WANT IT. They had it on a gto and have it on the vette, this car, from what the GM contact I have told me... is what the public wants so they can go have fun, beat it up, etc, and not worry about it BREAKING. And the public, also wants to MOD it and make more power.

This makes no sense to me as the Corvette rears don't get swapped out for 12 bolts. Sounds like the IRS is fine as long as its well designed and the car isn't pushing 2 tons so hard.

That's what his general consensus was, and that's coming from someone in GM racing... I think he has a pretty good handle on what the public wants.

I somehow doubt the guy in G.M. racing is aware of what is working for dealers, focus groups, and the people who will be driving this car on a daily basis. Why would he? Hes in racing not sales.

Cheaper price, a solid axle (12 bolt), and not so much in the computer department.. they want an available cloth seat stripper, with the biggest motor that GM can stuff in it.

Sounds like a drag pac is a better choice here rather than a solid axle in every car. I don't doubt some would sell but not at the pace the current version is.

Sure the lower end cars will always sell, but from the performance side, that's what the public wants.

Again I point to the vette and then to the current Cobra. Which one is selling better??

Look @ ford, they put the IRS in the 03 and 04 cobra only to dump it as soon as the new body style came out. Think about it... they wouldn't have tossed all that R&D if it was what people wanted.

The zeta platform is designed from the get-go as a IRS platform. Changing it for one car in North America would have made no sense and it would not have helped get the car out any faster and it took long enough to come out. But if the guy in G.M. racing thinks it makes sense, maybe he should ask Scott Settlemire? He has a better feel of what the public wants I would think.

Think what ya want, there's a 12 bolt/solid axle coming in the near future, may hit this model, may wait for the next revision, but it's gonna be back in the car. When it happens I'll dig this thread back up and make a point that I told ya so.

Yeah not everybody drag races their car, and EVERYBODY who buys a new Camaro is going to appreciate the new IRS as a daily driver. I believe most of them are destined as daily drivers first, then drag cars etc second. From what I've heard the new SS handles great and is no longer the laughing stock of the world community when it comes to handling. Fourth gens weren't terrible at handling but they were nowhere near as crafty in slalom etc. A "track pack" would be a great addition to the 2011 camaro as an "option". Much like on the new stangs, and they do quite well performance wise with that option box ticked apparently. The GT500 was criticized for having a live axle instead of irs as well. Depends on what you want, but technology sells, and so does a well rounded vehicle imo.

The eco boost v6 is coming to the mustang and likely at power levels higher than the new 5.0 is making. Most of you are stuck living in the past, V8s are not the way of the future. Let us also not forget that the fastest f-body ever made until the slp firehawk was in fact a turbo 1989 V6 Trans Am. It took GM 13+ years to make a V8 powered car run the same speed as an engine basically unchanged from 1986.

I'll take my turbo V6 over almost any V8 powered Trans Am because its faster and in most cases BY FAR. Hell theres 4 cylinders GM makes now that have comparable numbers to the LS1 in HP and torque. Some of my friends with cobalts are making close to 400whp/420ish tq with little more than exhausts and tunes. The only thing a V8 has that's desirable anymore is sound.

Dont get me wrong theres almost nothing I want more than a 2010 Camaro SS but theres no way in hell it needs to be 3800lbs

The eco boost v6 is coming to the mustang and likely at power levels higher than the new 5.0 is making. Most of you are stuck living in the past, V8s are not the way of the future. Let us also not forget that the fastest f-body ever made until the slp firehawk was in fact a turbo 1989 V6 Trans Am. It took GM 13+ years to make a V8 powered car run the same speed as an engine basically unchanged from 1986.

I'll take my turbo V6 over almost any V8 powered Trans Am because its faster and in most cases BY FAR. Hell theres 4 cylinders GM makes now that have comparable numbers to the LS1 in HP and torque. Some of my friends with cobalts are making close to 400whp/420ish tq with little more than exhausts and tunes. The only thing a V8 has that's desirable anymore is sound.

Dont get me wrong theres almost nothing I want more than a 2010 Camaro SS but theres no way in hell it needs to be 3800lbs

:confused: I disagree so much that I don't know where to start. In fact, I won't waste my time on this one. To each their own :)

A Camaro made in 2010 should not weigh 3800lbs, maybe in 1980 I could see it. I'd rather see a V6 Turbo Camaro, than no Camaro at all, which is the reality if its V8 only. As long as its packing a punch I dont see what the problem is. Besides even the V6 model thats in there now outpowers everything made from about 1975-1992. If your going to talk about heritage, I don't think theres much to say for about half the cars history. I don't care how great it sounds a Carbed 350 cranking out 200hp is pathetic in any era.

Think what ya want, there's a 12 bolt/solid axle coming in the near future, may hit this model, may wait for the next revision, but it's gonna be back in the car. When it happens I'll dig this thread back up and make a point that I told ya so.

More than likely I would bet the Mustang gets a IRS again in its next redesign as Ford builds its vaults back up. Drag racers make up too small of the market. A small run of Trac-pac cars would make infinitely more sense considering G.M.'s current place financially. Chevy is trying to shake its old school image of shoddy interiors and just ok suspensions. I fail to see how a Carmaro with a solid axle would fit in that kind of marketing. Makes sense if their competition is "moving forward" (sarcasm) that Chevy would be "moving backward".

yea i gotta say IRS is much better for msot cars. the solid axle is ehh ok. obviously tis better in a straight line only but not everyone goes to a drag strip. ahving said that they need to shave off about 400lbs either way so it will help both aspects

I agree with the 400 lbs off the car, hell I'd rather see 500 to 600, but I'm trying to keep that reasonable.

The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, and GM knows that was a mistake, next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well.

The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.

That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.

Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problem :)

I agree with the 400 lbs off the car, hell I'd rather see 500 to 600, but I'm trying to keep that reasonable.

The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, and GM knows that was a mistake, next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well.

The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.

That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.

Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problem :)

Had they used the 8.5 10 bolt it may have been a longer lasting piece. They used them in zr2 s-10s. And I agree that the wheels on the current car are large, anything smaller on that bulky looking car would look out of place. Its a design issue and a weight issue. If a Solstice Coupe comes in under 3100 lbs why can't they get the Camaro down to 3400-3600 lbs? Besides as the owner of a 4th gen F-body I wish I had that clam-shell hood at times.

A Camaro made in 2010 should not weigh 3800lbs, maybe in 1980 I could see it. I'd rather see a V6 Turbo Camaro, than no Camaro at all, which is the reality if its V8 only. As long as its packing a punch I dont see what the problem is. Besides even the V6 model thats in there now outpowers everything made from about 1975-1992. If your going to talk about heritage, I don't think theres much to say for about half the cars history. I don't care how great it sounds a Carbed 350 cranking out 200hp is pathetic in any era.

I guess you don't get that a turbo 6 would be heavier than the current pushrod V8s?

Think what ya want, there's a 12 bolt/solid axle coming in the near future, may hit this model, may wait for the next revision, but it's gonna be back in the car. When it happens I'll dig this thread back up and make a point that I told ya so.

i agree to a point...

i dont think we will ever see a solid axle in the Camaro from the factory again, but im sure aftermarket companies (Moser, Strange, etc...) will eventully come up with a solid axle swap for the 5th gens.

i agree to a point...

i dont think we will ever see a solid axle in the Camaro from the factory again, but im sure aftermarket companies (Moser, Strange, etc...) will eventully come up with a solid axle swap for the 5th gens.

I think anyone and everyone who likes the 5th gens should cherish each and every car that rolls off the line. With GM being in financial trouble, it will be the first to get the axe when sales slump and there's no more "look at me" left about it. Waiting for a "6th gen" is probably the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.

I agree with the 400 lbs off the car, hell I'd rather see 500 to 600, but I'm trying to keep that reasonable.
The cars arent heavy bc the auto makers want them to be, its bc big brother says so and they have to play by the rules.
The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, GM cut corners to make the car competitive and GM knows that was a mistake, GM didnt replace many 10 bolts during warranty periods. Most people that break them are the ones who get the car long after the warranty is up. GM dont give a shit about a 10 bolt.next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well. MOST new car buyers want the ride quality, performance enthusiasts might as well get ready to do a solid axle swap

The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.

That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.All automakers are pulling this shit, if you dont, then you are getting left behind. And people are dumb enough to buy it, so they are gonna keep making it. Not many seem to realize, the whole big wheel ordeal defies all common rationality

Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problem :)first thing I agree with in your entire post

My thoughts in bold.

Let me tell you a quick story:

Girl I just met, says "hey I recognize your car".... Flattered I say "o yeah where from??" She says, "ah from the bank down the street. You used to pass by there all the time huh?" I says "yep, going to the post office and back." She said "Well you're car is slow" I said "huh??!!??"
She said "you're car is slow" I said "well how do you know that bc you have never ridden in it?" She explains, " Well it always revs up and it never goes anywhere. I always hear it but it never gets moving."

My car at that time had a 3600 converter, TR224, LTs, and true duals with turn-downs. Now, those may make you see/hear a performance car. To the average person its a loud slow piece of shit.

My point is simply this: Auto-makers aren't trying to impress you, in any way shape or form as a car enthusiast. They are trying to sell cars. Period. The only reason the 5th gens have 400+ hp is bc they HAVE to in order to be competitive. If GM could sell them with 150hp, you better bet for damn sure that they would give you a NA inline 4 and wouldn't lose a wink of sleep about your hurt feelings.

introducing the all new 2033 Camaro SS. 123 HP electric/LPG engine. 18 spd trans with 2 spd diff for maximum volt mileage. MSRP, 69K base, 72K with optional 30 cell battery.

Well, since all the doubters seem to not think it's possible, I got an e-mail today from my GM contact, who asked the question to Jon Fitzpatrick, and he was told that Gm is aware and was workign on it until the budget constraints put alot of things on hold, but it's one of the first things on the list to get back to as soon as the budget will allow. At this point they are planning to get back to the development of a solid axle setup for the fifth gen platform.

So there it is... from people that are really in the know. I'd copy/paste the e-mail but I'm not about to start giving out those address's on a public forum, these are busy people and don't have time for the banter they'd likly get. Plus, I'm sure they wouldn't like me doing that either!

save the email as a screen shot and blackout the email addresses on MS paint.

That's too much like work. If you don't want to believe me then don't, I could care less. But I will, believe me I have a link saved to this thread and will be mushing it all over the naysayer's faces when it comes out. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up in their sig/avatar. Solid axle is coming, I guarintee that.

Well solid axle or no doesnt change their reasoning. They will change it to cut costs, not bc its better/stronger at a drag strip or whatever. The reason they want it and the reason everyone else on this site wants it are completely different. And right when you get another email stating the 5th gen is getting the solid axle finally, and you rejoice, you will be seeing on the news that they pulled the plug on the whole damn car. Talk about a catch 22. To this date, every person I have seen driving a 5th gen has been a non-enthusiast. Call it profiling if you will, but if the shoe fits....

That's too much like work. If you don't want to believe me then don't, I could care less. But I will, believe me I have a link saved to this thread and will be mushing it all over the naysayer's faces when it comes out. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up in their sig/avatar. Solid axle is coming, I guarintee that.

no not at all. i never said i done beleive you. i actually take your side. with all the cost cuts and advancements in solid axle ride quality etc... i think its stupid of GM to not consider this.

i was just saying to save it as a screen shot and post it up for all the nay sayers to bask in...

i think the "track pack" idea is the perfect solution. but maybe not an option package, so much as another trim level. re-inventing the old legend is what the 5th gen is about? so "re-invent" with a solid rear, and come up with a new moniker for it. maybe this isnt the best idea, but there are other options. just as the 4th gens were sent out to SLP/ASC, have GMPP ready to do the conversion off the line.

this all ties into the idea that we SHOULD be able to option out for a bigger motor, as in the old days.
base- LS3
lvl 2- LS7
lvl 3- LS9

i also believe the future of this LS motors is coming to DI. might cost a little more, but it would open the door for a new LS motor (5 and 8 are still open) so add a few more cubes & DI and you have a a new motor making between the LS3 & LS7 power.


ahhhh so many ideas of what the 6th gen COULD offer.

And yet nobody has the vaguest thought that these cars are being made on a severe budget. Anything not making money is going down the drain. Business, plain and simple. I think GM has some recovering to do before they start offering fun and exciting things again.

true, but if it *does* get a solid axle, i bet we see a corporate 8.5 10 bolt since the 12 bolt isint made anymore.

They wont do it because they cant. Now what i would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE for GM to do is move the weight back down into the 3400's capable of being 2900's with a 300 hp LS3 that breaths through a straw... so you put exhaust / intake and OMGZORS power... how hard would that be? then they could meet their standards... and make us happy...

I agree with the 400 lbs off the car, hell I'd rather see 500 to 600, but I'm trying to keep that reasonable.

The solid axle, all I can say, is that teh 4th gen car had a junk s-10 rear in it, and GM knows that was a mistake, next time around it won't be. The IRS, is really only needed for ride quality.. other then that it's not enough of an improvment in any other aspect to be worth the added cost. The solid axle will decrease cost, and if done right, ride quality can be had with one as well.

The brake caliper diameter should go down, you can have the same stopping ability with an additional piston in the caliper with a substantially smaller rotor, as you do with a lesser caliper and a larger rotor. Going to a larger rotor is the easiest way to incrase braking power, adding another piston to the caliper, can and will do the trick, hell putting 2 small calipers on each rotor would do even more due to the massive increase in pad contact patch.

That, will most likly be left to the aftermarket. The stupid wheel size, I don't like it, only thing that does is slow down the car and add cost, and make tires more expensive, and sacrifice ride quality.

Maybe putting a 17 back on the car with a higher profile tire would be a good way to improve ride quality so the solid axle won't be a problem :)

The car would look DUMB AS HELL with a 17 on it. because they styled the car to look amazing with 20's. i agree with what you are saying. but the car already doesnt fill wheel gap without atleast 22's... you'd need semi truck tires on the damn thing to run a 17

Well solid axle or no doesnt change their reasoning. They will change it to cut costs, not bc its better/stronger at a drag strip or whatever. The reason they want it and the reason everyone else on this site wants it are completely different. And right when you get another email stating the 5th gen is getting the solid axle finally, and you rejoice, you will be seeing on the news that they pulled the plug on the whole damn car. Talk about a catch 22. To this date, every person I have seen driving a 5th gen has been a non-enthusiast. Call it profiling if you will, but if the shoe fits....

totally have to agree. i am fucking CONSTANTLY pulling up to fucking old women and ... i'll leave the others out. that arent in it because of what it is!

They are in it for the image. IT IS PATHETIC. and cars arent the only things... video games...clothes.. everything is just about profit. "how can i make money" No companies give a shit about making people like us happy.... its whatever will make the most dime. Its sick. i charge people fractions of what most charge to do work to cars... only because i like doing it, it keeps me busy... and i make someones day... seems like i am a dieing breed....

true, but if it *does* get a solid axle, i bet we see a corporate 8.5 10 bolt since the 12 bolt isint made anymore.

Talk was to use the same axle that the trailblazer ss got the 14 bolt or whatever that is.

They wont do it because they cant. Now what i would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE for GM to do is move the weight back down into the 3400's capable of being 2900's with a 300 hp LS3 that breaths through a straw... so you put exhaust / intake and OMGZORS power... how hard would that be? then they could meet their standards... and make us happy...

care to enlighten us on how they "cant"?

totally have to agree. i am fucking CONSTANTLY pulling up to fucking old women and ... i'll leave the others out. that arent in it because of what it is!

They are in it for the image. IT IS PATHETIC. and cars arent the only things... video games...clothes.. everything is just about profit. "how can i make money" No companies give a shit about making people like us happy.... its whatever will make the most dime. Its sick. i charge people fractions of what most charge to do work to cars... only because i like doing it, it keeps me busy... and i make someones day... seems like i am a dieing breed....



Have you taken a look on camaro5

90% of the people posting are fucking idiots and or its their first camaro, man they say the goofiest shit on there. Most of them jumped on the flavor of the week, but that means as soon as the flavor goes away you get cheaper used cars. But seriously man its like you have to have fucking brain damage to be accepted over there.

totally have to agree. i am fucking CONSTANTLY pulling up to fucking old women and ... i'll leave the others out. that arent in it because of what it is!

They are in it for the image. IT IS PATHETIC. and cars arent the only things... video games...clothes.. everything is just about profit. "how can i make money" No companies give a shit about making people like us happy.... its whatever will make the most dime. Its sick. i charge people fractions of what most charge to do work to cars... only because i like doing it, it keeps me busy... and i make someones day... seems like i am a dieing breed....

welcome to mustang world....

the new Camaro has become a fashion statment, or look at me car just like the mustang has always been.

totally have to agree. i am fucking CONSTANTLY pulling up to fucking old women and ... i'll leave the others out. that arent in it because of what it is!

They are in it for the image. IT IS PATHETIC. and cars arent the only things... video games...clothes.. everything is just about profit. "how can i make money" No companies give a shit about making people like us happy.... its whatever will make the most dime. Its sick. i charge people fractions of what most charge to do work to cars... only because i like doing it, it keeps me busy... and i make someones day... seems like i am a dieing breed....


That's funny, just the other day I was driving and saw a new black SS with limo tint windows and black wheels, all murdered out--
when I caught up to the car at the next light, the driver is a woman about 50 years old.

I think this may be the new vehicle demographic.

This is kinda like what happened with the Scions. Marketed and targeted for teens and middle aged people were the ones ending up with them. Not saying camaros are specifically marketed towards younger buyers at all. Let's be honest, in the average world, when you are middle aged, you have more freedom to buy what you want, not what you can afford. Or at least what you can afford is a broader range anyway.

yea, think about it, im 22 and in no position to buy a 30K+ car. when the 4th gens came out, it was the same way, untill the price dropped to where 18-25 age group could afford it. and its even worse now a days with the obama era putting the economy in the shitter.

yea, think about it, im 22 and in no position to buy a 30K+ car. when the 4th gens came out, it was the same way, untill the price dropped to where 18-25 age group could afford it. and its even worse now a days with the obama era putting the economy in the shitter.

So the economy was fine up until he took office? Did I miss something?

Have you taken a look on camaro5

90% of the people posting are fucking idiots and or its their first camaro, man they say the goofiest shit on there. Most of them jumped on the flavor of the week, but that means as soon as the flavor goes away you get cheaper used cars. But seriously man its like you have to have fucking brain damage to be accepted over there.


I think camaro5 is a great site. Some dumb people but some really great people also. A lot of people on that site are really passionate about the car. Always coming up with new ideas, write ups, anything to improve the car you name it.

No v8 = fail

Pictures or this thread is useless. I gave up after reading the first page. Hypothetical arguing over a car 4 years away does nothing.

I think camaro5 is a great site. Some dumb people but some really great people also. A lot of people on that site are really passionate about the car. Always coming up with new ideas, write ups, anything to improve the car you name it.

I would say for every 1 guy thats actually a Camaro fan there are 30 people that just want to be noticed. One guy seriously posted a thread about how he hates when people dont look at his car when he drives by. Yes that was a real thread, yes there are dozens upon dozens of threads similar to that.

I would say for every 1 guy thats actually a Camaro fan there are 30 people that just want to be noticed. One guy seriously posted a thread about how he hates when people dont look at his car when he drives by. Yes that was a real thread, yes there are dozens upon dozens of threads similar to that.

I completely agree and this has been the people who have bought Corvette's and Mustang's in the past. Now that Chevy has made a Camaro to be competitive in the market and able to appeal to a wide range of people, the Camaro has the same break down of owners. It's the new "it" car. The same amount of enthusiasts are still buying the car, but the people filling the gap and making up the high sales numbers are the people you just described. If the new Camaro was only made to perform on the track with a SRA and stripped down on options to 3500 lbs. then it would selling only as much as the 4th gen did. Only enthusiast who were concerned with performance bought them and the mass populous stayed away. I think GM learned from that.

id like to see the LS series gone and an all new revised DI LX or something

GM is already ahead of the curve offering a V6 with a power and mileage combo. Look how Ford's scrambling to try and outdo it because of how well its percieved in the publics eye, and Dodge is completly in the dust in this one probably never catching up


lolwut

This thread is all speculation. We know nothing about the 6th gen Camaro. Fail.

Cant we celebrate the return of the Camaro after a 8 year hiatus?

Well solid axle or no doesnt change their reasoning. They will change it to cut costs, not bc its better/stronger at a drag strip or whatever. The reason they want it and the reason everyone else on this site wants it are completely different. And right when you get another email stating the 5th gen is getting the solid axle finally, and you rejoice, you will be seeing on the news that they pulled the plug on the whole damn car. Talk about a catch 22. To this date, every person I have seen driving a 5th gen has been a non-enthusiast. Call it profiling if you will, but if the shoe fits....

i agree a hundred percent on the non enthusiast people buying them, my GF's best friend jus recently bought one, when i saw it i asked her what made u get a camaro, she said and i quote " cause i REALLY REALLY liked the way it looked, and when i test drove it it went fast,and has a sunrooof." after that i went inside doing this :barf:!!!!!!!!!!

Well, at the rate HP output is rising, that turbo 6 in 2014 model with 425 HP will be just that- the v6 Camaro.
And the v8 will be putting out 550!

Of course, the car will weigh 4500 pounds.

I'm all for a 300 hp rating due to a choked motor (take an ls7 and put a 70mm tb on it with a choker exhaust) and just get the car down to 3300 lbs.

I'd rather have that... easier to unchoke the car then it is to get one down to fighting weight.

With the solid axle of course.

maybe we could all go in on a group purcahse and buy a new TVR instead. low weight power looks and not everyone has one. bet we can get a discount if we get at least 10 orders....

Most of you are stuck living in the past

Says the guy with a 21 year old car. :confused:

Anyway, what's wrong with living in the past? Not everything modern is good; now we have a Camaro loaded down with junk like DoD and Onstar - and these are options you can't delete when ordering the car new. That really bothers me. I'd like to have a new Camaro, but I don't want to pay for shit that I don't even like/want/need. The 1SS trim level should allow you to delete more stuff than it does....and DoD never would have been needed if they had kept the weight down in the first place.

Says the guy with a 21 year old car. :confused:

Anyway, what's wrong with living in the past? Not everything modern is good; now we have a Camaro loaded down with junk like DoD and Onstar - and these are options you can't delete when ordering the car new. That really bothers me. I'd like to have a new Camaro, but I don't want to pay for shit that I don't even like/want/need. The 1SS trim level should allow you to delete more stuff than it does....and DoD never would have been needed if they had kept the weight down in the first place.
There's a simple answer to that, sack up and buy the manual. I hate DOD as much as you and I don't have to worry about it.

There's a simple answer to that, sack up and buy the manual. I hate DOD as much as you and I don't have to worry about it.

Problem is, I also hate manuals (not the shifting part, the dealing with a clutch part).

This will likely lead me to a C6 as my next car. That way I can get the *real* LS3 with the A6 trans I want, and none of this L99 bullshit - plus the added bonus of a much lighter vehicle.

I will say though, my neighbor has a Summit White SS with orange stripes that looks fantastic. If I was going to get one, that's the exact color combo I'd do it in, but at 1SS trim level and no RS package.

Says the guy with a 21 year old car. :confused:

Anyway, what's wrong with living in the past? Not everything modern is good; now we have a Camaro loaded down with junk like DoD and Onstar - and these are options you can't delete when ordering the car new. That really bothers me. I'd like to have a new Camaro, but I don't want to pay for shit that I don't even like/want/need. The 1SS trim level should allow you to delete more stuff than it does....and DoD never would have been needed if they had kept the weight down in the first place.

You have no one to blame but uncle sam. Hes the one implementing 37 airbags, 14 door beams and 53 roof reinforcements per car. The mustang will be close to the weight when its 2012 hits.

The only real thing they could do is make a smaller platform car. Remember people also complained about 4th gens when they came out too.

The new Camaro is just too expensive!

Umm what?

2002 Camaro SS $29925

2010 Camaro SS $30995 (base)

8 years later and its still competitive with its old price and 10 times more of a car.

You have no one to blame but uncle sam. Hes the one implementing 37 airbags, 14 door beams and 53 roof reinforcements per car. The mustang will be close to the weight when its 2012 hits.

Agreed. I'm not mad at GM as much as I am at the EPA and government in general. Safety and emissions/MPG requirements have gone too far IMO.

The only real thing they could do is make a smaller platform car.

No thanks, to make it any smaller and still be a 4-seater it would end up looking like shit. I don't mind the smaller vette because they didn't have to design a body around 4 seats, so it looks fine being smaller.

8 years later and its still competitive with its old price

Agreed.

and 10 times more of a car.

That's nothing more than opinion. For some people's goals and preferances, the 4th gen would be the better choice.

I don't feel that either car is superior overall, too many variables for different people....especially when you consider the current massive price difference. I actually find it laughable to see how ignorant people on both sides of the fence can be when stating how much better "their" side is.

Problem is, I also hate manuals (not the shifting part, the dealing with a clutch part).
Why? Have you not used a modern day clutch before?
Personally I wouldn't consider buying a performance car without a manual, kinda defeats the purpose... (no, im not talking about just strait line racing)


No thanks, to make it any smaller and still be a 4-seater it would end up looking like shit. I don't mind the smaller vette because they didn't have to design a body around 4 seats, so it looks fine being smaller.

The Mustang, G35, and BMW 3 series are smaller and lighter and look great IMO.

Why? Have you not used a modern day clutch before?
Personally I wouldn't consider buying a performance car without a manual, kinda defeats the purpose... (no, im not talking about just strait line racing)

I would not consider buying any car with a manual. I live 1 mile from Chicago; meaning constant heavy traffic, stop lights every 1/4 mile, and flat, straight roads. Constant clutch and shifter operation becomes boring and annoying for someone like myself that doesn't care much for it in the first place. 10 years ago I spent an evening driving a friend's '00 M6 Z28 around town....it wasn't what I'd call fun.

I do really enjoy the setup in my Nova though; fully built trans, stall, ratchet shifter. Complete and precise manual control over shifting when I want it, and full auto operation when I don't. Sadly, the modern electronic autos don't usually respond as quickly when shifting manually, but from what I understand the paddle shift option on the LS3 C6 is much improved over the LS2 cars. Not sure how it is on the 5th gen SS, I haven't used one yet. But that's the sort of option I'm looking for.

The Mustang, G35, and BMW 3 series are smaller and lighter and look great IMO.

Mustang does look very nice, but it isn't much shorter than a 5th gen. G35 looks foul (IMO), and the M3 isn't anything I care much for either (domestics only for me).

NEW FORUM-Potential Chevys...lol fail.

Anyway what was the R&D costs to retro a SA in a IRS platform??? I live in the Show Me state. I have to see it first. I am not saying there won't be a SA Camaro but I fail to see the relevance. Sounds similar to this
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh123/ws6gluemaker/l_20496da51b302d5924d46e750a831d54.jpg

I would not consider buying any car with a manual. I live 1 mile from Chicago; meaning constant heavy traffic, stop lights every 1/4 mile, and flat, straight roads. Constant clutch and shifter operation becomes boring and annoying for someone like myself that doesn't care much for it in the first place. 10 years ago I spent an evening driving a friend's '00 M6 Z28 around town....it wasn't what I'd call fun.

I do really enjoy the setup in my Nova though; fully built trans, stall, ratchet shifter. Complete and precise manual control over shifting when I want it, and full auto operation when I don't. Sadly, the modern electronic autos don't usually respond as quickly when shifting manually, but from what I understand the paddle shift option on the LS3 C6 is much improved over the LS2 cars. Not sure how it is on the 5th gen SS, I haven't used one yet. But that's the sort of option I'm looking for.


I agree with the traffic part, I live a bit further from Chicago and the clutch is really nice on the car. That being said, if I had to drive everyday in traffic it would suck. I say you buy an M6 and swap in a 4L80E with full reverse manual valve body. That would be fun! :D