speedshifter

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys! I'm putting together a L92 or LS3 setup to drop into my '95 Mustang using the GMPP LS3 standalone setup and corvette accessory setup. Here is what I have in mind. Help me out with a couple blanks that need to be filled in:

L92 or LS3 long block
Sending heads out to WCCH (proheads.com) for Stage 3 head job w/PAC springs
Ed Curtis custom cam & pushrods
Stock rockers w/comp upgraded trunion
LS3 intake & throttle body
LS3 Corvette OEM pistons (10.9:1)
Stock crank and rods w/ARP hardware
Final assembly balanced and blueprinted
Fbody oil pan
LS7 clutch w/ TR-6060 trans
Twin Pierburg external 255lph pumps with Aeromotive fuel filter & regulator, fuel cooler in return line
Dynatech 1 7/8" headers to true dual 3" exhaust with tailpipes & dynomax ultra flow mufflers

Here are the undetermined parts I need to figure out:

Are stock rods good for 500 rwhp? (I thought I read 700hp somewhere)

Is the stock LS3/LS7 fuel injector big enough for 500RWHP?

Can I run the stock LS3 fuel rail with my current fuel system? Can I install the regulator in a semi-returnless configuration similar to the way the C5 vette filters do?

What timing chain do you guys favor?

Thanks!

Matt

squee

iTrader: (16)

Honestly, alot of that isn't necessary if you only want 500rwhp. A cam only LS3 can do that. I've seen some strange things with the ported L92 heads. Picking up little to no horsepower. I would spend the money on a Fast intake instead. I'm building a L92/LS3 right now, so I've been doing a good bit of research.

First off, don't get Caddy lifters. They fail. All the lifters now are the same. The LS3 lifters will be the same as the LS7 lifters.

Stock crank, stock rods, stock pistons are all fine. No need to change them unless your going FI with some serious power. I'd spend the money on a stroker crank at the most and forget about it (porting the heads at that point would probably be worth it, but stock CI is sometimes hit or miss).

ARP rod bolts, balancer bolt, head studs/bolts (your choice) wouldn't hurt. The studs are 3x as much as the ARP bolts, the difference is minuscule, and they are both reusable.

I wouldn't get the Comp rockers personally. Stock are fine to be honest, but if you wanna upgrade them, get shaft mount Yella Terra's or just get the upgraded trunion kit, but I don't think its really necessary. I did it on my LS1, but thats just cause I had a kit laying around.

As for pushrods, if you aren't milling the heads or going with a different thickness head gasket (I wouldn't do either, so you dont' change the PTV), just get a 7.425" pushrod to account for the smaller base circle of the aftermarket cam. They'll keep the preload right.

Stock LS3 injectors should be perfectly fine for about 500rwhp, stock rail will be fine, and twin 255 pumps is probably overkill. One should feed 500rwhp.

If you get a L92, make sure to change the oil pump. Ported LS6 will suffice. If LS3, stock is fine. Same with the timing chain. If its a used motor, changing them wouldn't hurt, but isn't necessary.

Long winded, but figured I'd elaborate instead of just saying don't do this or don't do that and leaving you with even more questions.

97badass

iTrader: (8)

Don't spend twice as much on the lifters ls7 stock replacements are more than enough. Injectors are fine. I wouldn't waste money on porting the heads... I've seen ported vs stock and there isn't much difference they just smooth them out and take off a little of the top.

97badass

iTrader: (8)

As for the ported oil pump... Waste. Use your stock one and port it yourself they take off a little ridge in there that is a 5 minute job.

speedshifter

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys, thanks for the awesome info!

I should preface this reply with my intentions of this build. I'm just coming out of a 615rwhp/g57rwtq turbo 347ci ford 5.0L setup. The car was nothing but a headache to drive. Reliability was non-existent. Sure it was fast, but there were always issues. My goal with this LS3 is to have 500+ reliable RWHP and drive the car. I hit the drag strip maybe once a year. I also would like to get back into road racing two weekends a year. I want a motor that has 500+rwhp naturally aspirated, that I can spin to 7,000 rpm all day long and have 80k+mile reliability out of it.

I did a decent amount of research on the intakes and from what I've been reading, the FAST isn't worth the money on an LS3 unless you have a stroker. Same goes for the ported factory intake. I already have a take-off L99 intake (heard its the same as an LS3, but havent checked part #'s) that was given to me.

Whats the lifter of choice then? Stock LS3? I'm a bit new to the GEN IV performance world. I used to know more about the GENIII stuff.

I want to at least change the pistons because stock GM ones are junk. I know the pistons in the vette are a little better, but we are putting pistons and rings in truck motors for oil consumption all the time. Lifters, cams, and broken valve springs are also big failures. New pistons also let me raise the CR a little bit.

Is a stroker kit really worth the money? I'd hate to throw away a perfectly capable crank and rods. If I did stroke it, it seems like I should get the heads ported and run a FAST intake which are another $2k added to the project.

I plan to re-trunion stock rockers if I find a long block that comes with them. If I wind up picking up a short block, then its cheaper to buy the comp's then buy stock rockers and re-trunion them. I'm afraid to run YT rockers after seeing all the failures online.

Whats a good head gasket to run? I hear a lot of people are running LS9 head gaskets.

I know the fuel pumps are overkill, but the setup is already mounted on the car. The twin pumps are mounted externally on the tank with a Granatelli tank pickup.

Does the stock LS3 oil pump need porting?

Thanks for all the advice!

squee

iTrader: (16)

If you take proper care of it and build it right, you shouldn't have a problem getting plenty of miles out of it.

By all means, if you have a L99 intake you got for free, run it. I would. You can pick them up with stock inijectors and rails for $300, so don't spend much on the injectors and rails.

The LS7 lifter was always the one to run, but now its the only one. They had the standard lifter, and the LS7. Now they are the same part number and all are what use to be the "LS7" lifter.

Lifters and cams going out in stock vehicles are kind of irrelevant, but I haven't heard of a problem with much more than the AFM stuff. If its new, I wouldn't waste the money on rings or pistons. If its used, maybe rings. They stock pistons should be more than fine, and I wouldn't mess with the CR.

Stroking it is up to you, but 376ci to 416ci seems like it would be worth it. Over ported heads at least...But there is the conundrum. The 416 would probably benefit from the ported heads more than the 376. So stock CI-stock heads, stroked-stock heads, or stroked-ported heads. Then comes the intake question again. lmfao Personally, if you only want 500rwhp, just cam it. Thats it. Leave the rest of the longblock alone. If its a L92, I WOULD however add the LS3 hollow stem intake valves, but thats it (springs are obvious I would think). 500rwhp is pretty common for a cammed LS3. And in leaving the longblock alone, I'd go with the stock MLS head gaskets (.051" IIRC).

As for the rockers, thats up to you, but what you need to consider is stock w/the trunion upgrade would be better for 7k than some heavy aftermarket rocker. The wipe patter will be just fine, and a set of 7.425" pushrods to account for the smaller base circle of the aftermarket cam, like I said.

Stock LS3 pump should be fine. TBH, I'm unsure of the differences between the LS6 pump and LS3 pump. All should be fine as long as its not a L92 pump for the VVT. Just depends on what you get for a motor and what you wanna replace to be safe.

Keep in mind, since I'm in almost the same exact boat, most all of the advice was given to me or confirmed by Geoff Skinner, my tuner, at EPS. He's about as good as they get with LSx's. I mean I just asked him the other day about the head gaskets, rockers, pushrods, etc. just the other day when I ordered my cam, oil pump and pushrods (I have a L92, so needed standard oil pump).

Mine will have the L92 shortblock, 821 LS3 heads with hollow stem intake valves, stock rockers, LS3 intake/injectors/rails, and the usual stuff through a T56 and a Moser 12 bolt, and Geoff said I can expect 485-500 at the wheels on his VERY stingy dyno, and thats coming from a guy that almost refuses to give hp guestimates.

redtan

iTrader: (5)

Why go forged piston but OEM rods?

Either go forged both for the peace of mind, or if really going to keep it at a max of 500rwhp just go with the OEM rods and pistons and save some money. For N/A there's really no need to go forged, especially with a rather mild build and not a lot of RPMs.

Also, I'd skip the stage whatever porting by WCCH and just get some light work on them to cleanup the casting marks. For your power goals there's no need to get that serious. After that port match the manifold to the runners and you're all set.

speedshifter

iTrader: (1)

Thanks again for the advice! If you guys are confident I can hit 500RWHP with just a cam, I'll give it a shot. Gonna keep the stock internals pistons and rods for now. If I choose to replace them later on, I'll step up to a stroker kit with ported heads and intake. For now, I just would like to get it running.

Thanks for clarifying about the lifters. We see lifters go bad in stock vehicles all the time, and the cam I'm going to get Ed Curtis to grind for me will most likely have over 0.600" valve lift. Just wanted to verify LS3/LS7 lifters were up to the task.

I'll stick with stock rockers and re-trunion them.

I went on the parts catalog at work and verified that the Vette LS3, Camaro LS3, and Camaro L99 intake manifolds are all the same part #, so I'm good in that respect also.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

Anyone want to chime in about the fuel regulator?

squee

iTrader: (16)

If a 5th gen can through a TR6060 and a IRS, I would think you can through a TR6060 and a SRA. If your just shy of it, or want a few extra ponies, get a ported throttlebody and a underdrive pulley. That should be good for maybe 10rwhp with the tune.

Honestly, I don't know why I'm just now thinking of it, but why not go with VVT since its a swap anyway? That was my initial plan, but I bought a street bike so I had to cut my build back a good bit. The gauges I was gonna get, another harness, etc, would have cost me about $2k more. I'll end up swapping in a VVT cam at a later date for sure though.

As for the VVT though, you can get a cam directly from Mast that will make SERIOUS power. 500rwhp no problem, and have ~50-60hp more under the curve. You wouldn't regret it for sure.

As for the cam, if you don't go VVT, I would give Geoff Skinner at EPS a call. Geoff is one of the best guys when it comes to LSx there is. Call him and see what he suggest. Probably exactly what I suggested. lol Tell him Corey from Baton Rouge sent you. He'll know who your talking about. I should have my car up there for a tune within a month/month and a half and I can post up the dyno sheet and such for my car with the cam he spec'd for it. Its a 230/242 ~.603/.605 w/113+1 LSA if I remember correctly.

As for the regulator, how do you have it setup now? That might help to figure it out, cause I'm unsure exactly. Is it a single feed with the 255s in line going to the regulator?

speedshifter

iTrader: (1)

GM doesn't make a standalone controller for VVT. I want to keep it simple and reliable, VVT is one more thing to go wrong.

Right now I have a feed from the tank splitting to the 2-255lph pumps, Y'd back into a single -8AN line up to the engine. Then have a -8an from the engine to the regulator, and a -6AN from regulator to tank. Traditional return style fuel system with 2 connections to the engine. Any way to hook up the regulator to make it "returnless" with just a feed line to the engine? Or should I just use a corvette filter?

bloodhoundz28

Just like to comment if thats cool.Good! I currently run a built ls3 416 with every bolt on their is and put down 518 rwhp. With the juice 200 shot 709 rwhp 812 ft lbs of torque.What it really comes down to is the combination of things.The only way you will get close to 500rwhp is a one badass combo with some trick flows and a badass tunner.Yes I do have a 6speed.

speedshifter

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for sharing that info! I'll admit it seems a little far fetched that just a cam and a tune will make 500 rwhp in my car.

bloodhoundz28

It won't bro I'm involved with alot of different builds all the time.A friend did a 383 stroker with the thunder racing stroker V cam with trick flows and put down 527rwhp it all just depends,also a built 416 stroker will keep you happy.

speedshifter

iTrader: (1)

squee, care to chime in with a response to bloodhounds post?

bloodhoundz28

Also stop and think for second if 500rwhp was that easy to accomplish everyone would have a cammed Ls3.Most H/C cars with all bolt ons make around 440 to 460ish.A cammed Ls3 street/strip with all bolt ons 470 to 480ish.Ls3 with big cam on some really nice flowing heads and really good tune you will be right there.

squee

iTrader: (16)

Yeah. Look at his post count. That should tell you everything. I know what I'm talking about. The RIGHT cam on a LS3 with bolt-ons will make 500RWHP in a 5th gen Camaro with a IRS that'll eat up more power than your SRA. For instance, here is a A6 Vette with a MUCH smaller cam than mine on a MUSTANG dyno that made 450 at the tires. Figure that car with a M6 instead and on a Dynojet, and you'd be right at 500 with a tiny cam... I can find hundreds more if you like, but Bloodhound doesn't know what he's talking about obviously.

squee

iTrader: (16)

10.85 second LS3 cam only Vette making 498 at the tires.

LG dyno graph of a cam only Vette making 493 at the tires.

I can keep going, but I'd just be wasting my time. I don't really care if you believe me. Cam only Camaros are making 500rwhp. I even saw a LG cam only LS3 car make 530rwhp.

1lejohn

iTrader: (9)

Thats it no headers or any thing else. Come on now. It must be a freak.

1lejohn

iTrader: (9)

No stock ported heads, cam and 92 or 3 intake with those cubes and good exhaust will get you there with an A4. You might make it with unported heads.

speedshifter

iTrader: (1)

squee is right. heres a '10 camaro with ported ls3 heads, cam, and exhaust:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/gen-5-cam...m-package.html

gm high tech also did this article:

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13280722553252

550 fwhp is 500rwhp