Dragaholic

iTrader: (180)

First off, when are they needed? I pull the wheels off the ground anywhere from 12-24 inches and carry them anywhere from 20-30 ft. (never really measured, just estimating) Anyhow, I was thinking of putting them now because I have the car suspended, with a stand on the k-member, letting the a-arms hang down and it looks as if they're putting a lot of stress and bind on the upper ball joints. I'm afraid before long, that they could snap them off and I certainly don't want that while going down the track. Is there any negative affect if I install them on the car and they're not yet needed?

I was also looking around for a set and I'm debating whether to fab up a set or buy a kit. Is this something universal where I can buy them anywhere? I ask because I saw a set on Wolfe's site and wasn't sure if they were built by Wolfe designed specifically for our cars, or just a kit they buy and turn around and sell.

If there's any other info you'd like to share, please let me know. Thanks in advance.

Ben R

The kit Wolfe sells is universal. If you've got limiters and somehow manage to put the car into a wheelstand, the landing will be very very violent.

Tom the roofer

iTrader: (9)

Here is an old pic of my travel limiter. I got them from Summit awhile back. I measured the stock travel on MY car and as I remember the travel was 5-3/4". I have the limiters set so the travel is only 3". I also have my front HAL S/A shocks set at 7 clicks. With this setting I normally wheel stand about 1' to 2' (depending on the track prep) and land at the 60' very softly.



The car was set up as listed above on this launch. Pinion angle was -2 Tire pressure 11.5 Rear Hal S/A shocks at 7 clicks.

Launch



Landing at the 60'

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

Mine lands the same, with or without them. Made no difference there. Doesn't get as high with them. Cool weather has aggravated that. Couldn't even make a pass in cool air without them. Still need to make new adjusters so I can take out more travel. Not real crazy about making the 1-2 shift while still in the air. Mine adjust from the top, just open the hood. If I get time I'll take some pictures and post them, if anybody is interested.


Ed

Maggie

Well, travel limiters are not just for wheelie happy cars. They can be very usefull in fine tunning the reaction time of the car.

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

Right. If you have trouble going red (I do) you can help that by limiting front end travel.

Ed

Maggie

Exactly!
Wheelies get out of hand because the point of tip is improper for chaisis hook/power to weight distribution.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Ed, I'd like pictures.

I met Dan Wolfe at SAR, and he said they like no more than 3.5 inches of gap between the top of the front tires and the bottom of the wheel well.

V6 Bird

iTrader: (15)

You met Dan, David Wolfe's right hand man....Dans last name is not Wolfe though. Dont get them confused. I believe it starts with an A.

Mike

Maggie

hmm...I think that the gap between the top of front tires and the bottom of the wheel well is only incidental. Effect of travel should be adjusted based on tip point (Mass Centroid axis)...could make for a hell of a landing if it does get away from you!! Just IMHO though, everyone has their own ideas of set up.

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

The amount of travel is the deal, it seems to me just from past experience. That gap would depend on ride height, right? I'm just a dumb Okie, but it seems like killing the upward momentum is what we are doing with limiters. How about it, Brian (Madman)?

I'll try to take the pictures tonight. I have a friend that can tell me how to put them in a message here. I can't take credit for the limiter design. A friend of mine with a '97 F Camaro NHRA Super Stocker built by Mike @ MPR Race Cars. That car has limiters built like this. Cleanest setup I have seen. Maybe I don't get out enough. Hope MPR doesn't have a patent on them, I could be in trouble. <G>

Ed

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

John, I just remembered I have pictures frm the MPR car. Mine are the same, but not yet painted. Email me and I will send them back to you as an attachment. Don't know how to do that here. I'm old.

Ed

Maggie

Well, yes and...
The gap would depend on what you a trying to achieve and the amount you need to limit travel based on the suspension setup specific to your car. And if you are using lower limiters, upper limiters or both. example: If you are using upper limiters to overcome rebound unloading of the rear tires then you would have alot of gap. If you are trying to limit tip with just lower limiters then you would have less gap.

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

Here is a link to videos a friend made at the track Sunday, and posted there. Gives you an idea what I'm dealing with. I'm moving my battery back up front this week, along with some spring rate changes and limiter adjustment range changes. Got my fingers crossed.


http://tulsaracewaypark.com/forum/in...;threadid=8124

Maggie

Whoa ED, nice pass...but that's a nasty bounce you got there!! Definitely need some front load adjustment. You should be able to take care of that with some shock/spring adjustment though. From the vid. I don't think limiters alone will do the trick. If you have a set of corner scales you could tighten up the front first. Try about a .5 % more weight forward to start with using shock spring adjustments...you should be able to get what you need without moving the bat. If you have a cage with strut bars (or some really good adj. shocks and the proper springs) you can probably get what you need with only up front adjustments. If not you may have to do some adjusting to the rear suspension as well...maybe even move some weight around.
A video of the car leaving taken from behind and slightly to the side of the car would be more helpfull. It's really had to tell what the car is doing from that angle and so far away.

Hope this helps.
Maggie Stewart,
Triple S & Stewart Racing

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

The front shocks are set all the way stiff on extension, and 24 lbs in the rear tires. Compression is not adjustable. May have to get a set of double adjustable fronts. I didn't plan to go this far with this car when I bought the shocks. It was still an everyday driver. Like many of my projects, it got kinda out of hand.

I do have scales (borrowed from one of my NHRA Super Stock friends), and a selection of springs. A good friend that runs an NHRA Pro Stocker disagrees with you on the front limiters, as do I. He thinks I need to cut my upward travel to about 1 1/2", which is the direction I was thinking. Too little travel and track irregularities can upset the car down track. I have about 30 years of this under my belt, but this is the worst wheel standing car I have ever owned.

Maggie

Have you talked to your Super Stock friends about your car? They will probably have a slightly different take on set up than that of a pro stocker...two different animals even though they do share common laws of motion. There are many ways to achieve results...some of them are more efficient than others. It's all about (distance)squared X (Mass) for eace componet. A higher PMI will result in a car that won't be as responsive to chassis fine tuning but will cary the front tires ( what you car appears to be doing in the vidio) A lower PMI will make the car more responsive but will sacrafice stability. Pro Stockers usually have their engines low and can tune the chasis based on the abundance of torque and proporstional weight in front of the rear tires (thus not suffering the same influence of rotational mass, pitch, etc.) and ususly think in terms of weight transfer while Stock & Super Stock think more along the lines of LOAD transfer.
I too have been at this a looong time, since the late '60s. Still learning though...mostly from some of the younger racers, lol
I'll add this: I no nothing of your set up and watching a video gives me little to go on as far as what you need to do. There are so many things that effect set up. One of the most overlooked is the mounting points of the cage which can have a little or a huge effect on how a car reacts to chasis tuning. So, I will not presume to know what will work in your instance but only offer sugestion based on my experience with similar doorslammers.

p.s. Oh, and yes, I agree some double adj. shocks would give you more latitude with fine tunning you setup.

Good luck with your set up, I'm shure you will get it worked out.

Maggie

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

No offense, Maggie, but I wasn't asking for advice. That video was just showing what I was trying to deal with right now. Certainly not good passes. Two NHRA Super Stock racer/friends were with me at the track Sunday, one was an NHRA many time record holder (James Lee). I just talked to Mike Edwards (the Pro Stock racer) Monday with a question about the scales, and his take on rear spring rate bias. Before going to Pro Stock he was NHRA World Champ in Modified Eliminator (now Comp Eliminator) running a Maverick that had similar problems. I used to run a '69 Camaro back when he had the Maverick, but his wheel stand issues with that short wheel base car were much worse than mine at the time. We weren't allowed wheelie bars in the Super Modified classes back then. Hate to put training wheels on mine, but may have to. I have a pretty decent brain/experience pool to draw from around here. Usually, whatever the problem, at least one of us has seen it. Most of us have been at it for 20 to 30 years. James and I both well over 30.

Thanks, Ed

Z284thgen

iTrader: (46)

ed i have that vid hosted up that i emailed you

if you dont me posting it up i will

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

Sure, Jeff. No problem. When you gonna make it back home?

Ed