denttech

A long sad read for those who have time to bother...

My car has been on moth ***** all summer.

Brief overveiw of the events...

*Put deposit down on ETP LS7 heads back in late October early November of last year.

*Sold my AFR 225 heads in Febuary.

*Recieved first set of holy heads in early August.

*Bolted them on, lots of white smoke and holes in the heads chambers that you can actually see light through. ETP said that they were pressure tested at 80 psi before they sent them out.

*ETP wanted them returned so that they could repair my brand new heads, both sides.

*ETP welded them (a reported four times) and they still leaked.

*ETP offered to replace the heads with GM LS7 heads, for the same price as their after market heads. They also said that they could have new ETP castings ready for me no later than this week. I choose the ETP heads since thats what I ordered and paid for.

*I was reassured by the president of ETP, Mike, that the new castings would arrive to them by Tuesday, then they would make them a priority to be finished within a couple of days and sent to me this week.

*I phoned ETP on Wed. to check on the progress of the heads, only to get an answering machine saying that they will be closed from Wed. the 12th until the 18th due to moving...wtf.

*The castings, according to Mike arrived on Wed. this week. I was reassured that they can still get the heads done this week.

*The employee who does their porting is off due to a friend who died in his house last night....huh? OK good one.

*Mike again offered to get me GM LS7 heads for the same price as the ET heads, why I don't know if the ETP heads will be ready next week?...supposedly.

*I declined.

*The ET heads are supposed to be done next week. My season is finished anyways so why not wait and see if I get some decent ETP heads by the spring.

*waiting...tick tock, tick tock!

Some have said that I have been to patient, but what else can I do?

Here is a link to a thread that I startd in August to log down some of my adventures with ETP....

http://www.lsall.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4286

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

The heads were actually ordered in late March, not October, I was still working at autoworx at the time. I think thats when your deposit made it too ETP. I could be wrong, just trying to add some info on the situation.

denttech

Maybe so but the heads/casting were not ready yet. There was communication and intent to order the heads was expressed. If the deposit was given to them back in November or in March doesn't really make a difference since the castings were not available.

Four sets of ETP LS7 heads were ordered and ETP knew that they were needed by the spring. period.

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

I have read on message boards of people getting those heads in March, from people who ordered in the winter. Its not like autoworx has a good reputation to back up any claims over the past 3 years.

denttech

I haven't heard about any ETP LS7 heads being ready that early... post links.

Their original castings were to thin in places and ET had re-designed castings made, which weren't in that early. They just recieved another batch of castings that are improved upon again, or at least thats what ETP's president Mike told me.

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

Andy got 5 sets of LS7 heads in Feb 06. You missed the first batch.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...3&postcount=17

denttech

LS7 heads, it doesn't say that they were ETP LS7 heads.

denttech

Can you post the complete thread Dave? That 'single post' does not mention ETP heads, only the title says "Where is my ETP heads?". The 'single post' from Andy may be taken out of context without the complete thread.

GEARHED

iTrader: (5)

On any singled out post just look at the top to the right, the entire thread title is there. Click on it and it opens the entire topic.

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

Here another motor done and running in March with ETP LS7 heads. Pretty sure they got a batch out at the beginning of the year...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=ls7

denttech

Thanks, the post had nothing to do with ETP heads it appears.


He had to wait forever as well, he must have got some per-production heads. ETP had some heads ready earlier but those castings had some issues, I was offered a set of those heads and declined. I wanted to wait for a good product, as I continue to. ETP has offered me GM LS7 heads several times and I declined, although the ETP heads were always a week or two away, if I knew that they were a few seasons away I likely would have taken the GM heads.

I think that ultimately I did end up recieving the original castings that had issues, thus the outcome with the heads that I recieved in August. Four sets of heads were ordered, two sets came in late in July and two in early August. Of the two recieved in July, only one set was good. the two recieved in August, only one set has been used and they had holes. The funny part is both sides had holes on both bad sets, and the good set was obviously good on both sides...what are the odds of that?

I am a very patient person and a loyal customer but this has been a bad experience and my patients is wearing very thin. When my car is finished I want to sell it and buy a stock car, so that I can enjoy cruising around for the summer instead of waiting all season for my car and paying for basically nothing but head aches!

This kind of **** takes the fun out of modding a car.

Cary@Perf-Induction

iTrader: (1)

Don,

I know that the customer will always see things their way, whether it is right or wrong, they paid for that choice. We have made very reasonable attempts to resolve your issue. First, we did not recieve an order in ovember or october. That is bs. Second, you have the facts a little mixed up from what I have told you. We did not have a first bad batch, second bad batch and then a third. I take for granted when explaining an issue that people will see it the same way I do. Our time issues have always layed in the hands of our parts suppliers and the foundry that we have dealt with over the last couple of years. This is our first cylinder head that we have ever made. Testing?? We have done a lot of that, we aren't stupid. Mistakes, that happens to the best of us, so I never made the claim that we are perfect. I have always taken the time to take care of issues with our products and solve them by the best means possible. We are very sorry you and other people have lost time with their cars over our product. We have also tried to make things right to you and your friend Roy. We did what we said we would do. As far as your engine goes, it is not all our fault. SLED is right about your order. So having the real facts helps when trying to damage our rep. There will be a day when this world is free of problems, until then, we will deal with them. BTW, You did call me and tell me you wanted your heads replaced with GM heads, I said, NO PROBLEM. Then you changed your mind because Mike told you that we would do our best to get heads out to you by Friday. He still had the respect to call you and offer you the GM heads since we weren't done yet. We actually busted our asses to get our 5 axis machines set up in the new shop before we even moved anything else, just to cut your new heads when we recieved castings. And so we are. I also would not give you an exact ship day, because it is not possible and if I miss it by a day, I sure don't want to have to see another post about how much we have lied to you. We are doing our best. If that is not enough, I will be glad to refund your money and you can get another set of AFR heads. I did ask you not to bring this topic to the forum. That is because we take care of our issues and don't screw our customers. So you did. I have been very honest with you. I do appologize for your inconvenience, I have made all the efforts to replace the heads. Now tell me, what else can I do to make you happy.

Thanks,
Cary

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

So is this resolved? Dentech you have heads now?

ADMIN

denttech

I am glad to see you here Cary and I am more than happy to hear/document your side of the story. I have tried to chronogragh the the situation as truly and factual as I recalled and it was explained to me, as far as casting batches, when I put my money down and what you and other reprsenatives of ETP discussed with me. I did have a post up in LS1Tech that I removed upon request and because of an offer of a solution/time line to me recieving my heads. I told Mike when he promised me my heads finished and machined on the same week that you were closed for moving? that if I didn't recieve my heads when he promised that I would post up this thread on more and bigger boards, which is exactly what I did. That was during the three way call with Roy, Mike and myself.

I don't know when you recieved the money for the heads but I do know when I paid for them and I do know that Wade was in contact with you and others from your company who assured us that the heads would be ready in time for this season. I know that you have had issues and set backs, but thats not really my concern. If I knew that the heads were going to take this long I would not have sold my one season old AFR 225 heads for much less than half price to Sled28. I would have kept them to use this season.

Even if the deposit money was sent in when I paid it, I still wouldn't have heads as far as I see it.

I did decide to switch to the GM LS7 heads when Roy went with them but Wade and Mike talked me out of doing that, which I truly believe was the best choice. Mike phoned me last week to say that your head porter was off due to a friends death and asked if I wanted the GM heads. I wondered why he would make that offer if the only issue was somebody off for a day or two. That should only set the heads back a day or two, right?

Huh? Then whos fault is it? My motor has been installed once with bad heads, and may have been damaged due to coolant going through the motor. My short block has been sitting waiting for heads for most of the summer.

The deposit not getting to you until a month or two later should not have this much effect on the finish products arrival...should it?

That statement makes me mad the more that I think about it!

All that I see is no car in my driveway and heads that are not here that were paid for last year...where am I wrong?


That is the way it was explained to me. The 'first batch' was to thin in areas, so we waited for a 'second batch' to be designed and cast. So the second batch were 'supposed to be' the ones sent to us and mounted on my short that were leaking coolant. Mike told me that now you are waiting for 'another casting design' that is thicker in those thin areas. Unless the first heads sent to me were from the original batch of castings that were known to be flaud it adds up to three batches.

I don't recall it that way, what I remember is you said that "you didn't like what people are posting up on the internet" but you didn't ask me not to post anything else. I would not have agreed anyways as this is my best recourse.

It was actually due to Sled28 who kept asking questions about my car (and other peoples cars from Auto Worx that were not finished) that I started this thread in the first place.

I offered to take down an earlier thread that I made on LS1Tech and I did so.

Please get me a good set of heads. I lost this season and I am very disappointed. I have spent money for basically nothing...at least for this year.
That was the original agreement when I put the money down was it not?

No not yet, still waiting.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Cary are heads going out this week? Is there a holdup?

ADMIN

Cary@Perf-Induction

iTrader: (1)

Don,

After we finish machining your heads this week we will pressure test them and sonic check the areas where we had problems before. This time I went to the foundry myself and personally made and set the cores to ensure there were no mixups at the foundry like the previous batch of Raised runner heads that were made. I will then reassemble them and ship them to You/Wade. I hope that this will take place by the middle of next week. I believe this will be within you're allowable timeframe that you gave me today, which was by spring time of 2007. I did not give you an exact date today because they are not far enough through the system to guarentee a ship date. There are too many variables when moving a shop of our size with half of our staff out sick.

PSJ, I have went to all measures to make good to this gentelman. I appreciate his patience with us and I thought we were seeing eye to eye. I even tried my best to repair his original heads so he could make the JP shootout in canada a few weeks ago. Myself and our welder dropped everything we were doing for a day and a half to do this with a guarentee that if they had any further problems, I would replace them with a brand new set because we would not have new castings in time to machine him a new set before the race. I have gone to extremes with other customers in the past to help make their purchase worth every dime spent. Just ask BeardWS6 member.

Problem resolved,
Cary

denttech

Thanks Cary,

I am gratefull for your explanation. I will continue to wait patiently for my heads.
I realize that we have been through quite a bit with these heads and both of us are worn thin with these problems. I do appreciate your efforts, although my impatience may show more than my appreciation.

When I finally get your heads and get to the track I will feel much better and I will give as much praise for your good product as I express my issues for have to wait this long for them.

Thanks again, Don.

denttech

I don't want to appear to be beating a dead horse here but one thing that I would like to say...

You mentioned 'problem resolved' Cary, not so in my humble opinion, until I receive the heads the problem has not been resolved. The problem is well on its way to getting resolved maybe but not resolved.

I would agree that the open communication and honesty has been reassuring.

Don

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Please post when you have received the heads.

ADMIN

denttech

I will, and I will post up some great track numbers as soon as I get them on and down the track.