Generation IV Internal Engine - strongest 6.125 rod?

who has the strongest connecting rod in your oppinion or what do you have now and have you had any problems with them yet and what abuse have you put them through?

I ordered the Callies with my 402 along with a Callies crank. I have heard that they are both great pieces and can handle some serious power.

I'm sure all aftermarket pieces are a great upgrade over stock, but probably just personal preference on name brands...

It's between the Oliver Billet with ARP3.5 Rod Bolts and the Carrillo with SPS Carr bolts.

I'd probably lean ever so slightly toward the Carrillo rods, because they are H-Beam, but the Oliver Rods are NASCAR parts too and their parabolic beam is patented, so you can't go wrong with either one.

I have Oliver in my car, though, and I still can't vote for one over the other.

Nothing else on that list is even close in terms of quality or price.

Pauter x-beam. Although it isn't the lightest by far, it is very very strong. Although they also make it in Ti (custom order) to bring the weight down.

http://www.pauter.com/4340%20Rods_files/openmotor.jpg

Ive never even heard of an x beam before.

Ive never even heard of an x beam before.

Hense the picture above.

Probably the Cup grade Lentz w/Carr SPS bolts or the Cup grade Carrillo w/SPS bolts. These also have forced pin oiling.

Either of these, when fully optioned out would probably cause terminal sticker shock!! :eek2:

Oliver has the EDM pin oiling at only $55 a rod.

Lentz is also very good, but you're looking at $3k+ for a set, and I'm not sure they are significantly better than an Oliver rod. A street engine or even drag engine will never see the sustained forces of a Cup engine, so I think a standard Oliver rod would take anything you could throw at it.

It's between the Oliver Billet with ARP3.5 Rod Bolts and the Carrillo with SPS Carr bolts.

I'd probably lean ever so slightly toward the Carrillo rods, because they are H-Beam, but the Oliver Rods are NASCAR parts too and their parabolic beam is patented, so you can't go wrong with either one.

I have Oliver in my car, though, and I still can't vote for one over the other.

Nothing else on that list is even close in terms of quality or price.

^^^^Yep^^^^... What he said.

Id go with Eagle H beam with the bolt upgrade...they live in 1200hp motors no problem.

have any of yall ever broken an eagle rod?

several turbo mustang guys in the 7's on eagle rods (even with standard bolts).


Ive seen BBC guys are in the 7's as well on them (and just longer which the longer they are the weaker I would say)

Out of your list I would pick Carrillo's, The Oliver rods seem to have a hard time being disassembled and re torqued, they go out of round.

have any of yall ever broken an eagle rod?


I've seen pistons come apart and an Eagle rod live. :drive:

I've seen pistons come apart and an Eagle rod live. :drive:
I have seen the same on several stock rodded motors.

I have seen the same on several stock rodded motors.
the skinny end of my #7 rod and wristpin are now my lucky keychain ;) that doesnt mean the stock rods are weak its just the block is stronger :jest: i know some guys who swap pistons and are cherry with the stockers but piece of mind is worth the $$$ when a new motor is a lot more expensive.

Out of your list I would pick Carrillo's, The Oliver rods seem to have a hard time being disassembled and re torqued, they go out of round.

Oliver has a very specific torque procedure for their rods. As far as going out of round, I've never seen that on their billet rods unless the torque procedure was not followed.

Another rod that is good is the Howards Racing Components Powder Forged connecting rods. The fracture cap technology helps the rod keep it's roundness. And the material it's made from is extremely tough.

I have used all the ones on your list in various builds and my vote would be for the Carrillo rods w/ the SPS CARR bolts.

As mentioned, there are some other manufacturers you might want to look into like Lentz, Howards, etc.

Another set of rods I have used with great results are the Manley Billets. I would use them over the Lunati Pro-Billets any day of the week.

I have never had a problem with an Eagle rods as well. Most of the time, they do require more machining out of the box before being ready for use. In the end, the money you do save on them initially is lost due to this compared to a rod that is ready for use.

Jason

The question to ask is: Which rod is the strongest for its weight? Also termed "Specific Strength." You can design a rod that is stronger than anything, but it's going to weigh a ton. I believe in paying the most for optimized products. All the manufacturers optimize to some degree, but it would be interesting to see a subjecting tensile and compressive test for all the the major designs. Even more interesting would be to determine which is the most capable at high rpm vs which rod is best for max cylinder pressure. I doubt they will be the same design. Fatigue is another issue to consider (how long will it hold together under repeated abuse). The rod that is strongest in a one-time compression test won't necessarily last the longest in an endurance competition. Just my $0.02. These are the question I would be most interested in having answered.

I find that odd that it is said Eagle rods you use need alot of machining. The last 10 shortblocks I've done for customers have only needed one set slightly machined at very little cost.

I used 6.125" Crower billet rods in a twin turbo 427 that made 1200hp on pump gas and spun 7000 rpm. Never had a problem and plan on using them for my new project.

who has the strongest connecting rod in your oppinion or what do you have now and have you had any problems with them yet and what abuse have you put them through?
Manley H-beams are pretty underrated...Thats what im using.

As most builders know it's not he actual rod that takes a crap, it's the rodbolts that begin to stretch and end up breaking, with proper tunning you can make any rod live but the first sign of detonation can cuase it to bend. The higher end rods have better bolts and alloys that make them stronger.....

If your budget can support it get the Carillo's with teh SPS rodbolt, after aoing some FEA on the material at school it's going to be hard to find something stronger........

This is just my opinion though

Ok experts.....found these on ebay.....what do you think????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevy-LS1-4340-Billet-H-beam-Connecting-Rods-6-098-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33623QQitemZ1400867 75102QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

no name brand stuff on ebay = noooooooooooooooooooooooo
machining is always terrible. Go with SCAT or EAGLE for a little bit more

You also need to decide your power "budget". For instance, on an N/A motor that I know will not be seeing spray I will use the super-light stuff and keep the rods down to 520-530 gr. For instance we use Probe I-beams in Tommy's motor. Why put a 650-700gr. rod ina motor that doesn't need it. That is why so many folks who build a "forged" motor loose so much power. Huge reciprocating mass.

You also have to be careful with rod weight. Many of the rods will be the same weight, but will have more weight concentrated down on the big end of the rod which makes the rod much heavier on comparison. Often times these are refered to as "footballs".

The lightest and strongest rod... Probably a Jager transformed Aluminum Rod. Around 400 gr. Light as AL, as tough and durable as a steel rod... Just ask Greg Anderson :secret2:

As most builders know it's not he actual rod that takes a crap, it's the rodbolts that begin to stretch and end up breaking, with proper tunning you can make any rod live but the first sign of detonation can cuase it to bend. The higher end rods have better bolts and alloys that make them stronger.....

If your budget can support it get the Carillo's with teh SPS rodbolt, after aoing some FEA on the material at school it's going to be hard to find something stronger........

This is just my opinion though

Valve float, and the loss of combustion chamber "cushion" is often what pulls a rod apart at the cap, or the "hinge point". That is why so many stock rodded motors come apart. Better valve control would certainly help out a lot.

Interesting point. I'd never considered cylinder pressure but even on the exhaust stroke it must offer some resistance to the rod flying off into orbit.

Boosted.

I use all these rods as well and I haven't done anything other than add more pin clearance to the Eagles but you need to do that on every other rod there too besides usually the Carrillos that generally have .001 or so right out of the box. I have had Olivers with as little as .0002 pin clearance out of the box depending on the pin. Most aftermarket rods come with about a half thousandth or .0005.

I have had a few pairs of SCAT and Eagle a long time ago that were tight in the tang area though but all of this must be checked out when using any new rod. I've probably used about 400 sets of Eagle rods in different engine in the last 6 years. They are in tons of single digit engines on this site and never had a single problem. I also really like the Callies as well with the ARP2000 bolts but it's all overkill.

There's one 4.000 inch stroke engine on LS1tech here that turns 8600 and it's using normal Eagle rods with no bolt upgrade and the rods and bearings look great. I have personally seen the Lunati Pro-Billets bend on big NOS engines as well as several members have also. I've seen that 3 times.

I think all these rods are overkill for 99 percent of the uses we are talking about. I would put the extra money into something that will make more power or better reliability like heads and valvesprings or lighter valves.

The question to ask is: Which rod is the strongest for its weight? Also termed "Specific Strength." You can design a rod that is stronger than anything, but it's going to weigh a ton. I believe in paying the most for optimized products. All the manufacturers optimize to some degree, but it would be interesting to see a subjecting tensile and compressive test for all the the major designs. Even more interesting would be to determine which is the most capable at high rpm vs which rod is best for max cylinder pressure. I doubt they will be the same design. Fatigue is another issue to consider (how long will it hold together under repeated abuse). The rod that is strongest in a one-time compression test won't necessarily last the longest in an endurance competition. Just my $0.02. These are the question I would be most interested in having answered.

The only rods in that list above you will find in a Cup engine are Carrillo. The QC is why more than the design but it's proven and Carrillo is like gold as far as quality and consistency with metal and machining and finishing.

As most builders know it's not he actual rod that takes a crap, it's the rodbolts that begin to stretch and end up breaking, with proper tunning you can make any rod live but the first sign of detonation can cuase it to bend. The higher end rods have better bolts and alloys that make them stronger.....

If your budget can support it get the Carillo's with teh SPS rodbolt, after aoing some FEA on the material at school it's going to be hard to find something stronger........

This is just my opinion though

Yes Carrillos bolts are world class and many design features are patented by Carrillo. Their best bolts even have assymetrical threads so every thread is engaged when tightened. Most of the other big boys use the CARR SPS bolts in their own super high end stuff and pay Carrillo to do so.

You also need to decide your power "budget". For instance, on an N/A motor that I know will not be seeing spray I will use the super-light stuff and keep the rods down to 520-530 gr. For instance we use Probe I-beams in Tommy's motor. Why put a 650-700gr. rod ina motor that doesn't need it. That is why so many folks who build a "forged" motor loose so much power. Huge reciprocating mass.

You also have to be careful with rod weight. Many of the rods will be the same weight, but will have more weight concentrated down on the big end of the rod which makes the rod much heavier on comparison. Often times these are refered to as "footballs".

The lightest and strongest rod... Probably a Jager transformed Aluminum Rod. Around 400 gr. Light as AL, as tough and durable as a steel rod... Just ask Greg Anderson :secret2:


Wow I'm posting too much! J-Rod has another excellent point that weight is aways important and on a lower hp / lower rpm engine you can run a lot lighter rod than many do right now. Now if only those Probe lighweights would fit all the LS1 pistons out there! I am trying to get Mark and those guys do do an LS1 version or one with a narrower pin end and they would work quite well.

so what would be the recommended light NA (no spray) rod?

Eagle is hard to beat.

As most builders know it's not he actual rod that takes a crap, it's the rodbolts that begin to stretch and end up breaking

I agree!!!

Lunati Pro's here

And for value, I agree that Eagle's are hard to beat also!

i ran lunati pro mods with no issues, i was just shy of the 1,000rwhp mark on 2 stages.
no issues. my buddy spit out a eagle h-beam last year and bent 3 or 4 others at the same time. he was about 1,000 rwhp as well, 1 stage 400 shot.

his rods where 2 years old tho.

i will probably be using grp alum in my new setup

The Pro Mods are anchors but they are strong!

dyer billet here. Not the cheapest but neither is anything else at this point.

Tom

eagle forged rods

Exactly why and what type of machine work did the Eagles need?

Traditional I beams and Olivers specifically make good use of material to resist bending and tensile loads. The material to resist bending in a I-beam rod is placed as far out as practically possible from the centerline, making it more resistant to bending loads than a H-beam. As long as the I-beam has the same cross sectional area (Center of rod, not the ends) as the H-beam the tensile strength of both rods will be equal (Also, assuming the same material of course). In torsion I can see the advantage going to the H-beam. But, the load a rod sees in torsion is smaller, than the bending load. Being a Mechanical Engineer I'm still not sure why H-beams have gained their popularity due to previus reasons.

I'm currently running a set of Eagle H-beams with L-19s at almost 1100 RWHP(no problems so far), but will be changing them out over the summer for a set of Lunati's. The Lunati's have more cam clearance, which I need. I'm sure the Eagles will look fine upon dis-assemble as I have never killed a set rods due to failure of the rod itself. I'd really like to see if someone has tensile tested the material used in a Chinese Eagle rod compared to a quality US rod.

very good points there TT632!

wonder id it a case or marketing that made people opt for H instead of I beam rods????

also very good point on the "quality" of the knock offs and the real thing.

Chris.

very good points there TT632!

wonder id it a case or marketing that made people opt for H instead of I beam rods????

also very good point on the "quality" of the knock offs and the real thing.

Chris.

Seeing the H-Beam dominate for so long in NASCAR and also with other companies in the formula car and Superbike world like Pankl I don't think it was all marketing. A lot of it was Carrillo's awsome QC and materials and fastener patents. Then of course everyone copied them as a marketing tool probably. Nowadays you see both I and H Beams at all levels of racing. I know it's harder to machine the H-Beams as well and before especially in Ti but now several shops can so it but I-Beams are so much easier to make.

Just being truthfull though we have still had more problems with the I-Beam stuff by far at least from other shops. I am starting a thread elsewhere about it since we just got another set of one particular pretty expensive I-Beams again and the big ends are way out of round and these had a total cake walk of a life. The same engines with Eagle rods show like .0002 out of round or less and these are .0010-.0012 again and have to be resized. They cost 4 times as much as the Eagles though! I am going to see what their engineers say again.

Seeing the H-Beam dominate for so long in NASCAR and also with other companies in the formula car and Superbike world like Pankl I don't think it was all marketing. A lot of it was Carrillo's awsome QC and materials and fastener patents. Then of course everyone copied them as a marketing tool probably. Nowadays you see both I and H Beams at all levels of racing. I know it's harder to machine the H-Beams as well and before especially in Ti but now several shops can so it but I-Beams are so much easier to make.

Just being truthfull though we have still had more problems with the I-Beam stuff by far at least from other shops. I am starting a thread elsewhere about it since we just got another set of one particular pretty expensive I-Beams again and the big ends are way out of round and these had a total cake walk of a life. The same engines with Eagle rods show like .0002 out of round or less and these are .0010-.0012 again and have to be resized. They cost 4 times as much as the Eagles though! I am going to see what their engineers say again.

What do you think about olivers? are there like any other I-Beam or do they have more strength? i still haven't seen oliver billet rods fail.

What do you think about olivers? are there like any other I-Beam or do they have more strength? i still haven't seen oliver billet rods fail.

I don't know why but many Olivers we get go out of round on the big end after hard use. Don't know why? The Eagles don't. It's not a huge scientific sample and it's mostly stuff from other shops so who knows if it's even Oliver's fault truthfully.

I don't know why but many Olivers we get go out of round on the big end after hard use. Don't know why? The Eagles don't. It's not a huge scientific sample and it's mostly stuff from other shops so who knows if it's even Oliver's fault truthfully.

Yeah - I have seen the same thing. Use Carrillo's

I used compstars on my 347 build because I couldn't justify the cost of a lunati pro billet at only 700-800 horsepower or so...

When I build a stroker it'll either use lunati, howards, or grp rods with L-19bolts...probably the GRP's

How about those Corillo K1 rods? Mmmm. Nice.

How about those Corillo K1 rods? Mmmm. Nice.


I hope you were joking on this statement?


Eagles are going in my motor.

I hope you were joking on this statement?not sure what the question is that you're asking with that question mark. but why do wish that was a joke?

How much HP can the Eagle rods handle?

How much HP can the Eagle rods handle?

I have used them in stuff that makes 1000 RWHP many times. I also use the Callies as well and neither have seemed to have any issues.

Erik,

how were my Oliver's compared?

I guess we'll get to see how they look after some abuse after I get it in the car :D

Yeah they are plenty heavy in cross section. I think they will hold up!

whats the price on a set of eagles with 2000 series bolts and Carrillo's with their bolt upgrade worth for standard twin turbo cubed 347 engine worth-

eagles are ~$650 and the Carrillo's will run probably 2k LOL

Im building an LQ9 408 and using the Callies Compstar crank and rods, and the quality looks really good to me, i was going to use the eagles, but got a better deal on the Callies stuff.

I find that odd that it is said Eagle rods you use need alot of machining. The last 10 shortblocks I've done for customers have only needed one set slightly machined at very little cost.

I agree.... my forged 383 stroker with Eagle crank, Eagle H beam rods, and JE pistons was assembled at W2W and no machining was required on the rods. I did go with the L19 rod bolts though....a bit of over kill,but it does make for one strong bottom end. :burn:

carrillo rods are teh best on that list hands down.

cariillo dont rate there rods but thats what i used in a sb2.2 412ci 2 stage n2o engine that was going to make over 1500hp with both kits..i sold it and the last time i talked to the guy who bought the engine he said that the rods where fine when he freshend it and was going to put aluminum rods in it but after seeing the rods when the engine was apart he went with carrillos again.

i've seen them go into the 2000hp range in turbo apps on small blocks also.

I think all the rods are good pieces. The real question should be - Has anyone had a rod failer, and what rods were they? And at what HP? Most importanly, what rod bolts?

Ron

the skinny end of my #7 rod and wristpin are now my lucky keychain ;) that doesnt mean the stock rods are weak its just the block is stronger :jest: i know some guys who swap pistons and are cherry with the stockers but piece of mind is worth the $$$ when a new motor is a lot more expensive.

man #7 has to be the weakest piston hole in the entire ls1 motor. Ive heard so many people say something happend to #7. Hell mine has a hole in it.

compstar

I agree the billet is much stronger but every rod on that list has been to 990rwhp and up

Carillo with carr Bolts..... you won't find anything stronger

callies dose make sum nice stuff.

i had Scat H-Beams with 8740 bolts in my last application that saw up to 900hp on the motor. no issues whatsoever. i would have them in my new build if they were the proper length, but i wanted to stick with shelf pistons, so my new build has compstars.

we've used compstars in many builds, and howards in the latest. if you bend or break a rod, or a rod bolt fails, you are doing something seriously wrong for normal revving setups

Ive used Callies stuff in the past, held up great, awesome quality

I just picked up the Howards LS1 rods:

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL915/3221468/7716362/291085201.jpg

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL915/3221468/7716362/291085245.jpg

Dan

I just picked up the Howards LS1 rods:

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL915/3221468/7716362/291085201.jpg

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL915/3221468/7716362/291085245.jpg

Dan

they look nice- whats the price tag on the horward's-

Thanks in advance-

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but what about GRP rods? I think a lot of high HP turbo guys run them.

$750 set, a bargain for the quality of the part.


Kurtthey look nice- whats the price tag on the horward's-

Thanks in advance-

Carillo, with the wsb bolts, if you look at arp's rod bolt list the carillo high end rod comes with the highest rated bolt that I saw.

$750 set, a bargain for the quality of the part.


Kurt
Like Kurt said...a bargain. We have ran Howards in our motors for years. One of the few times you will get more than what you pay for.

$750 set, a bargain for the quality of the part.


Kurt

My machinest agree's, thanks for the rods Kurt!

I went budget, these are Probe I-Beams, had to take weight out of the crank to balance the assembly:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/moregrip/Dscn2530.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/moregrip/Dscn2533.jpg

I like the manleys.

diggin the olivers myself. I've ran several with no problems, but then again i'm not making any crazy hp. Guess it depends on how much hp you want as to which rod you would choose.

I ran Oliver billets in a 1500 HP blown alky SBC for two seasons and they were perfect every freshen big ends and all. Damn nice rods! A little bulky, but its insurance at that power level.

I have a set of Compstar in my LS2, haven't run it, but I was impressed with the parts out of the box. I am sure they will be fine. Eagles are decent too. Getting king a hard to justify big bucks for cranks and rods these days when you just don't see too many failures of the parts that aren't self inflicted!

Oliver rods are what we use in power adder engines. Great rods but heavy. For N/A engines we use Lunati. You can't beat them for the power capability and weight.

I thought FI was actually easier on the rods than NA applications, so I've been told?

I thought FI was actually easier on the rods than NA applications, so I've been told?

Turbo applications would likely be in a tensile load as their is always a positive pressure on the piston.

Not so much on the exhaust stroke of a blower motor however.

Turbo applications would likely be in a tensile load as their is always a positive pressure on the piston.

Not so much on the exhaust stroke of a blower motor however.

Ok thanks. Wasn't sure on a blower motor but makes since.

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but what about GRP rods? I think a lot of high HP turbo guys run them.

thats what is in my motor...but they are aluminum...strong yes....but have a limited life-span...

GRP = good stuff but like Brian said the aluminum rods have a limited life. GRP Ti rods are awesome but at $3600 per set, out of most peoples budget.

What about a Dyer's 300M rod?

What about a Dyer's 300M rod?

I mentioned them a few pages back. That is what run and they are good to 2XXXhp so far!!

Tom

whats the cost on the dyers. and who offers them

whats the cost on the dyers. and who offers them

Give Brooke at Callies a call. He got me mine.

Tom

whats the cost on the dyers.Around $1500.

can someone pm me his number my new block is ready and Im finishing up the details

can someone pm me his number my new block is ready and Im finishing up the detailssent you a pm.

We sell them at W2W also. The typical rod we use from them is 6.125 on center with the 3.5 ARP bolt, they run around $1700.

Kurtwhats the cost on the dyers. and who offers them

Actually I was going to buy the whole setup from you guys Kurt I had my block talked with Billy about it all he just never called me back. I know you guys are busy but I assure you my money is just as green :D

How about those Corillo K1 rods? Mmmm. Nice.

whats the info on these rods? Someone laughed. are they joke?

K1 Technologies billet H beam rods is what i chose this time. although i havnt had a problem with either scat,eagle or lunati i wanted to try sumthing diffrent this time...and they are the lightest rods i have in any of my motors

Send me a e-mail at kuperf@aol.com and I will get the order going.

KurtActually I was going to buy the whole setup from you guys Kurt I had my block talked with Billy about it all he just never called me back. I know you guys are busy but I assure you my money is just as green :D

Can anyone tell me what the howards rods weigh???

Can anyone tell me what the howards rods weigh???About 670 grams.

Until someone does some scientific testing involving lateral forces required to bend a rod, pulling them apart in tension to actually test strength quantitatively, counted cycle testing, etc., nobody can say for sure what the strongest rod is, it's nothing but opinions.

I'm pretty sure that's a given, since the person is asking on an internet message board instead of addressing physicists with a testing facility.

The poll asks: "which connecting rod is the strongest", not "what do you think is the strongest". Until scientific testing is done and published with proof, this is another one of those polls that this place is famous for, kinda like "will a XXX stroke crank fit in XXX block". It'll fit or it won't, that should have been a direct thread instead of a poll - what's the use in using a poll for that kind of question???
"What's your favorite 6.125" connecting rod?"
"What 6.125" rod do you use and why?"

Well which is the lightest that will hold up to a N/A 347 with about 525-550 flywheel hp? I am looking at Scat I beams and Eagle I beams with Mahle pistons. This will be a 11.8-12.2/ 1 motor.

Down the road It may see up to a 150 shot but more then likely not.

The poll asks: "which connecting rod is the strongest", not "what do you think is the strongest". Until scientific testing is done and published with proof, this is another one of those polls that this place is famous for, kinda like "will a XXX stroke crank fit in XXX block". It'll fit or it won't, that should have been a direct thread instead of a poll - what's the use in using a poll for that kind of question???
"What's your favorite 6.125" connecting rod?"
"What 6.125" rod do you use and why?"

Agreed. A better question would be "which rod do you think has the best strength to weight ratio". "Strongest" is a misleading term as any rod can be made 'strong', but if it is made from a substandard material, it would be extremely heavy. Rod weight and durability are relative to the application.

Aint Skeered, Scat makes a good I-beam, they call it their "Pro Comp" (no relation to the junk Chinese knock-off cylinder heads, it's just Scat's name for the rod). It has a very beefy big end, reminds me a lot of Lunati. They're capscrew and the ones I've used on conventional small block strokers didn't require any clearancing of the block or rods. They're less than $300 a set, too!

thanks, thats probably what I will be using.