LT1/4

So came up alittle short of the whole pro-touring build thread but ill have to take it one step at a time in the right forum sections. Have an some goals with the LT1 and needs some first hand guys with your experience.

Im looking to build a high compression solid roller motor. Looking to run an E85 set-up or it running VP100. The goal is around 600rwhp to 700. Im going to give a few guys a call like LE, AI, AFR, and Chad Golen. What I had in mind was the following and go ahead and edit it if you have better recommendations:

Just the motor.
396 LTx
4 bolt
Ported Stock intake or single plane
ported 200cc-227cc heads 21 degree
26x/26x SR cam .700+” lift
Crower Hippo or Isky Red Zones lifters
Smith Bros Pushrods
Manly NexTek .700+”
1.7 Shaft rockers T&D
12.5:1-13:1 Compression
Dry-sump oiling system
W/ Stock WP Cant imagine an EP on an high RPM build with the amount of abuse ill be giving it.



With the right tuning and parts I see the goal of at-least 600rwhp not a problem. Ill post the drive-train, suspension, chassis, wheels in their section.

BOOSTED AFR

Sounds like a neat build. You will want a single plane with that engine though. 24x swap or standalone fuel management for sure.

All that being said 700 naturally aspirated rwhp is a pipe dream. That's 800+ at the crank. Need boost or nitrous for those numbers.

BigBadWhitey

iTrader: (3)

Curious to see how you do the dry sump setup.
Ive seen one person on the corvette forum do one in an LT1, looked nuts. Hoping you can pioneer a more cost effective method!

LT1/4

Yeah not sure if I really want to go with a dry sump mainly because itll be costly & a challenge but I think i’d be better off with a high pressure, HV system.

Is this the Dry-Sump LT1 your talking about?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...mp-an-lt1.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...post1566357004

LT1/4

Well 700rwhp NA LTx isnt impossible but is not something I would rely on. A total hog down low, spinning the hell out of it, only getting probably 3000 miles before valve-train problems, and would be a trailer queen. Id be more than happy with 600hp to the wheels. Around 700+ flywheel. But if it turns out to be harder than expected ill be fine with 550+rwhp. Then throw a 200 or 300 shot at it.

Stand alone is what I had in mind. "Current performance" or F.A.S.T look like good choices.

BOOSTED AFR

Was doing some research for you. This is what I found.


"I built this with the intention of being the fastest nitrous lt1 in the world...not one single penny was spared in building this

well ill start to break down the price list and parts break down as best as i can:

Block: $500 96 lt1 block, half filled
Crank: $1200 Callies Dragon Slayer 3.875 Stroke, Internally balanced
Rods: $800 Oliver 5.850 with ARP 2000 Bolts
Bearings: $225 Clevite H Series Chamfered and oil Grooved
Pistons: $1450 Custom JE's with every option, Side Pin Oilers, Lateral Gas Ports made to handle 400+ of nitrous
Main Caps: $200 Pro-gram Splayed Billet
Piston Rings: $250 Hell Fire 3/16 3/16 3mm
Lifters: $450 Isky .180 offset W/ Guide bar, Solid Roller
Cam: $350 Comp Cams Solid Roller 268/284@.050 114LSA .440 lobe lift
Oil Pump: $125 Canton High Volume Pump W/ Canton Pick up
Timing Chain: $150 Cloyes Hex-Adjust Double Roller
Head Gaskets: $165 Custom Cometic 4.060 bore .050 thick (.040 quench)
Cylinder Heads: $4500 plus $350 to clean up AFR 215 Raised Runner CNC'd Cleaned up by Brandon (Cylinder Head Teacher at school)
.200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
143 209 263 306 331 338
Valve Springs: AFR(REV) 320 Seat Pressure 720 Open Pressure, .750 lift
Fasteners: $ 500 ARP Studs Throughout
Rockers: $1200 Jessel Pro Series 1:7 ratio
Pushrods: $375 Smith Brothers 3/8
Intake: $400 Dart-42521000 $800 Ported by Brandon
Carburetor: $1450 Braswell Dominator Built Specifically for this engine
Balancer: $400 Fluidampner
Valve Covers: $225 GM Performance Parts Cast Aluminum, Powder Coated Black
Oil Pan: $250 Canton 7 Qt
Crank Trigger: $275 MSD Flying Magnet Crank Trigger
Water Pump: $150 CSR Electric Pump
Vacuum Pump: $560 Moroso-22642 4-vane
Catch Can: $75 Moroso Vacuum Pump Catch Can
Motor Plates: $ 350 Mad-man Front and Mid Plates
Oil Gallies: Main Oil Gallies Drilled out and Restrictors installed
Distributor: $250 MSD Pro Billet Low Profile Cap
Plug Wires: $150 Moroso Race Wires

that right there is $18,125 in Parts alone...

It made 680hp at 7,300 rpm and and 522.8 ftlbs tq at 6,400 rpm...this was with out my carb on it and with no vacuum pump... i feel it should make 720ish once broken in fully and tuned some more with my carb and vac. pump on it"


At $18,000 that engine costs almost the entire budget you mentioned in the Pro Touring thread.

That build is incredibly similar to what you were looking to build yet it even has higher compression and arguably superior cylinder heads. I'm a huge fan of AFR's Raised Runner heads. I've seen what Joe Sherman can do with them.

Anyway, 680 at the crank. With less compression and head you're looking at 625-650 maybe. At 12~15% driveline loss...well you get the idea. I'm not trying to **** on your build I just don't want you to be disappointed. I've seen too many people build cars and engines being WAYY too concerned with the dyno number after its done. Who cares. As long as it does the job the numbers are irrelevant.

Hit em Up

iTrader: (3)

I agree with boostedAFR, don't get so caught up in the numbers! With that being said my build is very close to your goals but falls short.I made over 670 at the crank dyno day but with some bugs worked out and the addition of my vacuum pump I'm close if not a hair over 700 now.But I'm running higher cr at 14.3 to do it.Granted my cam isn't really aggressive but I think you will need more than the 12-13:1 cr you said you would run to reach your numbers.Also you will need some killer chad spier type heads atop that stroker along with a single plane for revs you will need to spin IMO! Definatly doable good luck with build..

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

give up right now several things that you said says there is not a snowball's chance in hell you will succeed at this.

This is aside from the budget thing the other guy brought up.

LT1/4

Too harsh on the criticism. Take it down a notch with a helpful post. lol just because you havent done it doesnt mean it cant happen for someone else. I just have to figure out if I want to stay LTx or go LSX for 600rwhp... Budget is around 22k And 18 grand on motor and 4k on everything else. Ill have to figure some things out as I go along. Suspension & H.C.I seems like a better area to start as I evolve the car into my goals.

LT1/4

Thanks ill take note.

BOOSTED AFR

Keep everybody posted, we'll be extremely interested to hear about this build.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

If you think Golen is competent for a mild street build then you aren't capable of the necessary research.

HP oilpumps on high rpm builds cavitate and create problems.

Most of the best performing LT1s are 383s not 396s, the "bigger is better" mentality is going to hurt you.

The stock waterpump does move more water but is going to sap power and cavitate badly at the rpms this will need.

The $18K motor said PARTS ONLY, there is easily a couple grand more in labor.

$4k for everything else???? You will need to spend nearly that much on a tranny then you still have axle, suspension, exhaust, fuel system.

Like I said quit now.

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

Never saw so many in one place using HV oil pumps. Don't know why they make those damn things for a SBC. Guess they know somebody will buy them. Should be illegal. Absolutely no need for them. Sad.
Just say NO!!

Hit em Up

iTrader: (3)

Wheather or not the op hits his hp goals this could still be a successful build.He could run a sb2.2 top end exceed his goals and also budget but it is doable.Everyone always says ask first before you build and that's what he's doing so he's at least open to suggestions!

LT1/4

Lol kinda getting the feeling you love to discourage people. lol Nope im not going to quit. That would be the cowardly way to handle a situation...

Starting out small then working my way up is the best option. Ill have to invest more in everything else other then the motor but my goals wont go away. Itll take time with the money after the 22k is blown.

LT1/4

I certainly am open to suggestions like a SB2.2 LT1. How much do the top end and heads start at though?

Hit em Up

iTrader: (3)

Right now there are at least a dozen sb2.2 set ups on eBay right now complete with springs and matching intake in the 1500-$2000 range.Now obviously there are a lot of other factors to consider like custom headers$,either running a carb/or converting intake to fuel injection$,rockers are more expensive,valve covers,possibly a new hood due to clearance just to name a few! On the upside a guy local to me runs this setup NA on 406sbc and runs 8.90s with his mild cam.He has a more aggressive cam but says it will eat springs to quickly considering he drives the car to and from track.

joelster

If you really want that kind of power, you'd be better off talking to a reputable engine shop, and explain the parameters you need to hit. 700hp at the crank, LT1 block, FAST XFI, etc, etc. A shop like BES that has a TON of experience with all sorts of platforms could analyze and adapt proper sbc stuff to the LT1 and hit those numbers. I bet you'd go way over your budget though. That parts list on that build a few posts above is misleading. You can shop around and beat a LOT of those prices if you look hard enough. I think you should take it down a notch and shoot for 600 flywheel and 500 at the tire. That opens up a lot of AVAILABLE LT1 parts, and won't require nearly as many one-off fabricated/converted parts.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Not a matter of liking to discourage people, matter of hoping to stop folks before they get in over their head. I would rather see you drive it forever with boltons than tear into things get in over your head and sell a basketcase project at a massive loss.

Forget the dream and just do the normal progression, boltons, them cam or heads and cam, then maybe a 355/383. You stand a MUCH better shot at doing it well if you start learning at a basic level instead of aiming for the stars right out of the gate.

VAformula

iTrader: (8)

For once, I actually agree with caprice here. You have a pretty heavy list here man, I would talk to a lot of builders before I throw that kind of money at anything. I got lucky and was able to spend only about 3000 to get about 460 rwhp (still need more dynos so don't quote me). That being said I bought and sold a lot of parts and did 99% of the work myself and I'm still not done as I'm breaking down the engine once again.

Its a never ending cycle and luckily I work at a dealership and can get a discount on parts and buy a lot used.

I would question why an LT1/4? Other platforms have more potential, I just did LT4 because I had a lot of the parts.

What exactly is your final goal, I know you said trailer queen, but is it still a pro touring or what?

Like I said, talk to people first, that's a lot of money, time and headache, and that's not something you'll pull of yourself, you'll need a large budget for labor. We just don't want you to waste it! PLAN PLAN PLAN!