Another aps build happening now..
10-03-2008, 07:21 PM
#1
Another aps build happening now.. Ok been lurking and posting but not actually installing anything even though got my kit last fall but didn't want to put it on the stock engine.
So waited and assembled parts and now doing it currently. Got a 408 shortblock from Canadian Performance. Callies crank,callies rods, wiseco custom pistons to give 9.5 to 1. Stronger piston pins and hellfire rings.
Arp mains of course ,arp head studs. Ls7 head gaskets. Slp oil pump and slp double roller. AFR 225 untouched. Untouched fast 90 with Nick Williams 90tb.
Lingefelter gt7 cam with yella terra 1.8s and checked and seen the cam card 1.8 are fine with this cam.
Will post some pics maybe when have something interesting to show.
Been tearing down the car for last few days and making think some good progress. I am hoping to be removing engine from the bottom with cherry picker early next week. I have time to work on the car a lot so going to try my best to get the 408 in and turbos on and have a week or two to drive it.
Car likely goes away first week or so in November depending on weather.
No plans to track or dyno until spring. No plans to track it until get new rearend. And finish up the planned fuel system.
One advantage of waiting this long is have seen a few problems and things. So am leaving off my hotchkis sway bar for now until figure out if can use spacers and stuff or whatever. Will be running low boost until can figure out what to do about the intake ducts. Hopefully will have good turbos and think will be running my slp oil pump with lower pressure spring.
Hopefully no other major issues will come up but still might have some questions and tips are always appreciated. I don't like the cheap clamps that come with the aps kit. I will for sure be getting good t bolt clamps to replace them. Also think will be upgraded blow offs as well. I like loud blow offs! Ricey but hey..
I was interested in the upgrade kit but can't really afford it right now.
So this current kit is going to have to do. Jm has hit 9s near 140 with his base kit on a 402 .I would be tickled pink with 10s.. My car is street car not track star. Will run at track hopefully get kicked and likely that will be the end of its track career. I have 91 talon race car project to trailer to the track.
Anyway looking forward to not being a lurker to actually be driving my aps twin turbo 408.
So waited and assembled parts and now doing it currently. Got a 408 shortblock from Canadian Performance. Callies crank,callies rods, wiseco custom pistons to give 9.5 to 1. Stronger piston pins and hellfire rings.
Arp mains of course ,arp head studs. Ls7 head gaskets. Slp oil pump and slp double roller. AFR 225 untouched. Untouched fast 90 with Nick Williams 90tb.
Lingefelter gt7 cam with yella terra 1.8s and checked and seen the cam card 1.8 are fine with this cam.
Will post some pics maybe when have something interesting to show.
Been tearing down the car for last few days and making think some good progress. I am hoping to be removing engine from the bottom with cherry picker early next week. I have time to work on the car a lot so going to try my best to get the 408 in and turbos on and have a week or two to drive it.
Car likely goes away first week or so in November depending on weather.
No plans to track or dyno until spring. No plans to track it until get new rearend. And finish up the planned fuel system.
One advantage of waiting this long is have seen a few problems and things. So am leaving off my hotchkis sway bar for now until figure out if can use spacers and stuff or whatever. Will be running low boost until can figure out what to do about the intake ducts. Hopefully will have good turbos and think will be running my slp oil pump with lower pressure spring.
Hopefully no other major issues will come up but still might have some questions and tips are always appreciated. I don't like the cheap clamps that come with the aps kit. I will for sure be getting good t bolt clamps to replace them. Also think will be upgraded blow offs as well. I like loud blow offs! Ricey but hey..
I was interested in the upgrade kit but can't really afford it right now.
So this current kit is going to have to do. Jm has hit 9s near 140 with his base kit on a 402 .I would be tickled pink with 10s.. My car is street car not track star. Will run at track hopefully get kicked and likely that will be the end of its track career. I have 91 talon race car project to trailer to the track.
Anyway looking forward to not being a lurker to actually be driving my aps twin turbo 408.
10-04-2008, 06:07 PM
#5
No pics but did get pretty much everything wanted to today accomplished. Going out bottom with engine.using cherry picker and some metal ramps on back wheels and think wheel dollies on front so can slide it out sideways. Talking to fellow f body guy that gave me some good tips.
So will yank tranny out at same time. Seems easier than trying to get those top bolts and all that. Wonder how hard to install trans on new engine if engine is out of car. Can you still get enough leverage to get the trans into the engine..talking t 56 here.
Guess find out soon.
So will yank tranny out at same time. Seems easier than trying to get those top bolts and all that. Wonder how hard to install trans on new engine if engine is out of car. Can you still get enough leverage to get the trans into the engine..talking t 56 here.
Guess find out soon.
10-05-2008, 01:40 AM
#6
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99ta what have i said about the your long posts LOL
have fun man i know you have been wanting to start on this for a long time
i want a lot of pics
im out in iraq id like to see something cool
have fun man i know you have been wanting to start on this for a long time
i want a lot of pics
im out in iraq id like to see something cool
10-05-2008, 01:54 AM
#7
Well Tom I do like to write..
Not much to take pics of just yet. Just a car starting to be pretty torn apart and a new shortblock thats needs lots of parts off the old engine . And it was running so good too its kind of a shame. My original engine and car only has 12,000 miles on it,its a big garage queen. But do plan on driving it more when the new combo is finished.
Not much to take pics of just yet. Just a car starting to be pretty torn apart and a new shortblock thats needs lots of parts off the old engine . And it was running so good too its kind of a shame. My original engine and car only has 12,000 miles on it,its a big garage queen. But do plan on driving it more when the new combo is finished.
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10-05-2008, 12:10 PM
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you should not post anything else until you make some good head way hahaha.
I WANT PICS BRO
12k that is kind of a shame you are making me feel bad now
what max boost do you think the turbos will make on that 408?
I WANT PICS BRO
12k that is kind of a shame you are making me feel bad now
what max boost do you think the turbos will make on that 408?
10-05-2008, 12:45 PM
#9
Ok Tom will take some pics..LOL
Well we have a few things to look at before we can say for sure how much boost they will make.
First of course we need to make sure the intake tubes don't collapse. I will be putting in some stint or getting the aps ones or maybe some other company will offer some metal ones or something.If not to test would try it with no intake tubes at the dyno or put filters directly on the turbos at least for testing.
Second the gate springs are 7.5 so its unlikely they will let a person go past 15???
Person will likely need to go to 10psi or maybe even bigger gate springs. On my 97 talon forget what my original springs were think they are 10psi and had to put in bigger springs
to go up past 20psi.
There is no real reason to think the turbos will still not be able to reach even 20psi on the 408. But you might not get any more power at 20 than say 15.
I am looking a lot a JMs car. He has a 402 and he has hit around 12psi . He has made like 700rwhp at that boost level.
I could be pretty happy with that as his car is auto and could add small say 100 shot to bring it up to my 800rwhp auto/850rwhp m6 goals. But maybe a guy can get to 800rwhp at say 15psi. No one has really tried yet with the smaller snails ,and you would as I said have to make sure that the intake ducts were not collapsing and that the gate springs would allow 15.
One advantage to my 408 is that you should be able to get the same power at say 15psi that you would get at maybe 20 on the smaller engine.APS has boosted the turbos to 18 to 20 in their dynos with there forged 346 but one test had tweaked wheels. assuming the same wheels as the upgrade kit?
And of course the 408 gives better hp and torque on and off boost.And should give very fast spool up. I like as wide a powerband as I can get on a street car.. 3000 to 7000 is better than 4500 to 7000. Makes a difference. I will add some bottom end snap with a 3400 yank stall and likely 3.54 gears. Still debating 3.73 gears though.I have seen fast cars on the boosted lists..they are still there if you do a search and lots are running 3.73s. Course higher gears you need higher redline or you are into overdrive. Not considered the best thing for track times.
I am working away on the car today Tom. Hoping to be yanking the old engine and tranny early this coming week. With luck a few days to assemble new engine ,99% of the parts are here and that last 1% should hopefully get here shortly. But that part is the ls7 head gaskets..can't get them local. And my coolant and oil galley plug kit.
Not getting that stuff will delay things a bit.
Once the engine is in the car with the turbos on there will be working 24/7 to get it running. Not busy at work so can put in lots of time into the car.
We have no dyno in my city so its not going to get dynoed till spring. By then will have switched to 3 bar and installed the rest of planned fuel system. And hopefully have rear end for it in spring and take it to both track and dyno. Track is also a hundred plus miles from my city.My city has no dyno just engine dyno.
Well we have a few things to look at before we can say for sure how much boost they will make.
First of course we need to make sure the intake tubes don't collapse. I will be putting in some stint or getting the aps ones or maybe some other company will offer some metal ones or something.If not to test would try it with no intake tubes at the dyno or put filters directly on the turbos at least for testing.
Second the gate springs are 7.5 so its unlikely they will let a person go past 15???
Person will likely need to go to 10psi or maybe even bigger gate springs. On my 97 talon forget what my original springs were think they are 10psi and had to put in bigger springs
to go up past 20psi.
There is no real reason to think the turbos will still not be able to reach even 20psi on the 408. But you might not get any more power at 20 than say 15.
I am looking a lot a JMs car. He has a 402 and he has hit around 12psi . He has made like 700rwhp at that boost level.
I could be pretty happy with that as his car is auto and could add small say 100 shot to bring it up to my 800rwhp auto/850rwhp m6 goals. But maybe a guy can get to 800rwhp at say 15psi. No one has really tried yet with the smaller snails ,and you would as I said have to make sure that the intake ducts were not collapsing and that the gate springs would allow 15.
One advantage to my 408 is that you should be able to get the same power at say 15psi that you would get at maybe 20 on the smaller engine.APS has boosted the turbos to 18 to 20 in their dynos with there forged 346 but one test had tweaked wheels. assuming the same wheels as the upgrade kit?
And of course the 408 gives better hp and torque on and off boost.And should give very fast spool up. I like as wide a powerband as I can get on a street car.. 3000 to 7000 is better than 4500 to 7000. Makes a difference. I will add some bottom end snap with a 3400 yank stall and likely 3.54 gears. Still debating 3.73 gears though.I have seen fast cars on the boosted lists..they are still there if you do a search and lots are running 3.73s. Course higher gears you need higher redline or you are into overdrive. Not considered the best thing for track times.
I am working away on the car today Tom. Hoping to be yanking the old engine and tranny early this coming week. With luck a few days to assemble new engine ,99% of the parts are here and that last 1% should hopefully get here shortly. But that part is the ls7 head gaskets..can't get them local. And my coolant and oil galley plug kit.
Not getting that stuff will delay things a bit.
Once the engine is in the car with the turbos on there will be working 24/7 to get it running. Not busy at work so can put in lots of time into the car.
We have no dyno in my city so its not going to get dynoed till spring. By then will have switched to 3 bar and installed the rest of planned fuel system. And hopefully have rear end for it in spring and take it to both track and dyno. Track is also a hundred plus miles from my city.My city has no dyno just engine dyno.
10-06-2008, 01:34 PM
#10
Update..out to work on car final prep for engine removal.I know I take a bit of time compared to some guys but like to be thorough and not make mistakes.Course no one is perfect.
I bought wheel dollies on advice from local f body guru. He said to pull the engine/trans out sideways and I have the room. Easier than putting jacks maybe on 2 by 4 towers to try to do it out front by removing cherry picker once its in the air. Made sense to me and they are handy to have around.
Just unsure if want to use straps or chain.I have thick coated chains around .But straps seemed like they might be better idea but unsure how they rate them and what ratings mean exactly.I have seen like load type straps. they are rated like 1300 working range or something but 5000 break strength.these are thick ones like 25 bucks a strap. Are these sufficient.I could keep chain on there loose for back up just didn't want to gouge and scratch up things with the chain.
I bought wheel dollies on advice from local f body guru. He said to pull the engine/trans out sideways and I have the room. Easier than putting jacks maybe on 2 by 4 towers to try to do it out front by removing cherry picker once its in the air. Made sense to me and they are handy to have around.
Just unsure if want to use straps or chain.I have thick coated chains around .But straps seemed like they might be better idea but unsure how they rate them and what ratings mean exactly.I have seen like load type straps. they are rated like 1300 working range or something but 5000 break strength.these are thick ones like 25 bucks a strap. Are these sufficient.I could keep chain on there loose for back up just didn't want to gouge and scratch up things with the chain.
Last edited by MY99TAWS6; 10-07-2008 at 01:01 AM.
10-06-2008, 04:25 PM
#11
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Well good luck with the build. Just got my turbos off and they were both out. One was leaking oil bad and the other had HUGE end play in the turbines. My car should be back up in running at the end of the month or early Nov. Good luck. Post pictures
10-06-2008, 05:44 PM
#12
Oh oh..not good ..you and Gregls1 and couple other guys had bum turbos now?That makes very little sense..wonder what is going on there with that. So are you sending yours to another shop to rebuild/repair them.Rebuild kits are dirt cheap is it that hard to rebuild them oneself..like complicated to balance etc..
So is your turbo actually hitting the walls on the high clearance one?
And the one leaking oil where is it leaking out the seals? You mean out the exhaust and or into the intake pipe?
If its leaking out seals could be venting problems. Are you running the aps pcv setup from the manual..I was going to add a breather already have a breather actually.
What oil pump are you running? are you running a high pressure spring in a melling or slp. I have slp but was going to run the non high pressure spring. Too much might cause oil past the seals but restrictors are supposedly not good thing in the mits 20gs. I can't understand what could be up mits 20 g are normally super reliable. Is aps fixing them nothing? They should if its assembly mistakes or low grade parts..are these chinese mits copies or something?
Dam thats not good to hear,takes the wind out of my sails a bit!
So were they not too bad to take off again..did you drop the k member to get them out or take the downpipe apart and take off manifolds..I am not really worried to drop kmember if need to. Seems easy and have cherry picker that I own. Sounds like it might be needed.I wish aps had just stuck to normal housings but would think still no big deal to bolt on something just not garetts?
I wonder if should go up to the upgraded turbos but they could start having same problems.
We need to do a poll but I am not very good at it to find out who has had these problems with their aps turbos now.
I have sometimes seen guys blame turbos or say they were shot when they blew oil out into exhaust and intake. I have personally had turbos do same thing in my dsms and it was pressure in crankcase every time or blowby from bad rings in shot engine.
Once the pressure was relieved the turbos stopped blowing oil and were fine. I should dissect my old 14b from my talon and see just how hard the thing is to rebuild myself. Guys have said they were super easy. So how can they be failing. We need somebody that knows these things to go thru them and see whats up.
APS should be fixing these things on warranty if its their shoddy workmanship.Not everyone can install their kit within 3 months or whatever of warranty. I have been waiting a long time to assemble all my support stuff like engine,etc.etc. So year is up from me I think..just..
I am not very impressed over the intake tube thing either. I think they should be shipped free or at least free shipping. If they even exist. I think maybe its time to start talking directly to aps on some of these issues like free sway bar fix also
.Peter is here and there but doesn't really seem to get things fixed too good. He is a salesment not really customer service.
It a pain that they are in australia with time difference but guy just has to start waking up and phoning them and go thru a few levels of management.
I am pretty good at being a squeaking wheel if push comes to shove. There is not really that much in the kit to go bad..well aside from the turbos. Sway bar is minor issue to me. Intake tubes think can figure out my own fix. Could do same for sway bar likely too.. But better not have a dud set of turbos! What were you running for boost levels. Really high might kill them but they should do 20psi all day long. Most dsm guys run them past that all the time. no problems at all.
if you can set up a poll think it would be a good idea. I asked if anyone had these problems on the gto and corvette sections on this board and other ones as think c5 and base gto use same kit. And they said they were fine and didn't find anyone that had problems with the turbos. So did they switch suppliers or something on our kits?
Well might as well keep going on things.
So is your turbo actually hitting the walls on the high clearance one?
And the one leaking oil where is it leaking out the seals? You mean out the exhaust and or into the intake pipe?
If its leaking out seals could be venting problems. Are you running the aps pcv setup from the manual..I was going to add a breather already have a breather actually.
What oil pump are you running? are you running a high pressure spring in a melling or slp. I have slp but was going to run the non high pressure spring. Too much might cause oil past the seals but restrictors are supposedly not good thing in the mits 20gs. I can't understand what could be up mits 20 g are normally super reliable. Is aps fixing them nothing? They should if its assembly mistakes or low grade parts..are these chinese mits copies or something?
Dam thats not good to hear,takes the wind out of my sails a bit!
So were they not too bad to take off again..did you drop the k member to get them out or take the downpipe apart and take off manifolds..I am not really worried to drop kmember if need to. Seems easy and have cherry picker that I own. Sounds like it might be needed.I wish aps had just stuck to normal housings but would think still no big deal to bolt on something just not garetts?
I wonder if should go up to the upgraded turbos but they could start having same problems.
We need to do a poll but I am not very good at it to find out who has had these problems with their aps turbos now.
I have sometimes seen guys blame turbos or say they were shot when they blew oil out into exhaust and intake. I have personally had turbos do same thing in my dsms and it was pressure in crankcase every time or blowby from bad rings in shot engine.
Once the pressure was relieved the turbos stopped blowing oil and were fine. I should dissect my old 14b from my talon and see just how hard the thing is to rebuild myself. Guys have said they were super easy. So how can they be failing. We need somebody that knows these things to go thru them and see whats up.
APS should be fixing these things on warranty if its their shoddy workmanship.Not everyone can install their kit within 3 months or whatever of warranty. I have been waiting a long time to assemble all my support stuff like engine,etc.etc. So year is up from me I think..just..
I am not very impressed over the intake tube thing either. I think they should be shipped free or at least free shipping. If they even exist. I think maybe its time to start talking directly to aps on some of these issues like free sway bar fix also
.Peter is here and there but doesn't really seem to get things fixed too good. He is a salesment not really customer service.
It a pain that they are in australia with time difference but guy just has to start waking up and phoning them and go thru a few levels of management.
I am pretty good at being a squeaking wheel if push comes to shove. There is not really that much in the kit to go bad..well aside from the turbos. Sway bar is minor issue to me. Intake tubes think can figure out my own fix. Could do same for sway bar likely too.. But better not have a dud set of turbos! What were you running for boost levels. Really high might kill them but they should do 20psi all day long. Most dsm guys run them past that all the time. no problems at all.
if you can set up a poll think it would be a good idea. I asked if anyone had these problems on the gto and corvette sections on this board and other ones as think c5 and base gto use same kit. And they said they were fine and didn't find anyone that had problems with the turbos. So did they switch suppliers or something on our kits?
Well might as well keep going on things.
Last edited by MY99TAWS6; 10-07-2008 at 01:03 AM.
10-06-2008, 10:54 PM
#14
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First off man, All your post are tooooo damn long. Easy up on all the questions. Didn't read half of what you wrote. I'm having bigger guts put in mine. Look at the FI section at Ls1GTO.com and SNL performance is doing the work. Inlets are 3 inch and having custom inlet tubes made also. I'll be running over 1000RWHP. very happy I hope
10-07-2008, 09:56 PM
#17
F body buddy is coming by tommorrow to help me yank out the 346.
Just found out parts order with my ls7 gaskets and block plug kit didn't get shipped for some reason. Lucky I phoned! So its shipped out now but might take a week to get to me hard to say with weekend in the way.
So stopped dead in tracks a bit on what I can do but can do some transferrring over from old engine to the 408.And can work on intercooler and bumper stuff. So not the end of the world but my schedule may be pushed back a few days.
Just found out parts order with my ls7 gaskets and block plug kit didn't get shipped for some reason. Lucky I phoned! So its shipped out now but might take a week to get to me hard to say with weekend in the way.
So stopped dead in tracks a bit on what I can do but can do some transferrring over from old engine to the 408.And can work on intercooler and bumper stuff. So not the end of the world but my schedule may be pushed back a few days.
10-08-2008, 03:40 PM
#18
Buddy came by and we started yanking it out around 10 and had it out by 11:30 taking our time and being careful. I did do the prep work over last week or so also taking my time.
We yanked it sideways out with cherry picker and used wheel dollies on front wheels. Put it on my old steel car ramps at the back wheels and used safety jacks and couple of floor jacks. All just done with basic tools no air nothing fancy.
Things went well no problems. Still hoping to have the engine and turbos installed in car within a few weeks. Model in pics is my young buddy.I don't do pics..being a 50 year old short balding italian guy..
We yanked it sideways out with cherry picker and used wheel dollies on front wheels. Put it on my old steel car ramps at the back wheels and used safety jacks and couple of floor jacks. All just done with basic tools no air nothing fancy.
Things went well no problems. Still hoping to have the engine and turbos installed in car within a few weeks. Model in pics is my young buddy.I don't do pics..being a 50 year old short balding italian guy..
10-09-2008, 11:08 AM
#19
Update: Got a present in the mail today from SDPC .My ls7 head gaskets and ls1 block plug kit showed up! That was pretty much last of the little stuff that have been waiting for on my build. So full speed ahead today. With engine out of the car should be able to really make some good time and getting it back from under should be cake as well.
Now if just can figure out how to get that damn bumper off so can finish off the intercooler stuff!
Now if just can figure out how to get that damn bumper off so can finish off the intercooler stuff!
