my VE table was virtually unchanged when i went from stock 28 lb injectors to SVO 30 lb injectors using 43.5 psi, I changed to 40 lb and everthing is showin lean 
Ok To Settle The Svo Injector Ratings
ok, one final question:
prior to the installation of my svo30s, i had my VE dialed in just about perfect.
i installed the injectors, put in the calibration based on the 43.5psi original rating, and the ve stayed perfect.
if 40 is the right number, not 43.5, wouldn't my VE post IFR calibration visibly off?
prior to the installation of my svo30s, i had my VE dialed in just about perfect.
i installed the injectors, put in the calibration based on the 43.5psi original rating, and the ve stayed perfect.
if 40 is the right number, not 43.5, wouldn't my VE post IFR calibration visibly off?
Changing injectors should produce no airflow changes
at all, and need no VE adjustment. Unless the new
injector has a very different snout, sticking into the
port or something.
When you changed the fuel model on the new delta-
rating-pressure basis you increased the flow value
and the PCM figured it needs less of it so you drift
lean in result.
Your actual system pressure vs 40 PSI should give you
an accurate fuel delivery scaling (as accurate as your
measurements and Ford's ratings). Fuel model doesn't
do a good job with the line losses (pressure drop @ flow)
though. Short pressure also makes short fuel.
You don't want to be in the position of tuning VE and
injector tables at the same time, with the same data.
That's one equation minus two unknowns equals one
headache. If you have to go there, then take on the
"easy" one (the injectors, where you at least have some
sort of standard ratings and can take the fuel pressure
reading pretty simply / cheaply) first and let the VE
hold the bag on any residual error.
at all, and need no VE adjustment. Unless the new
injector has a very different snout, sticking into the
port or something.
When you changed the fuel model on the new delta-
rating-pressure basis you increased the flow value
and the PCM figured it needs less of it so you drift
lean in result.
Your actual system pressure vs 40 PSI should give you
an accurate fuel delivery scaling (as accurate as your
measurements and Ford's ratings). Fuel model doesn't
do a good job with the line losses (pressure drop @ flow)
though. Short pressure also makes short fuel.
You don't want to be in the position of tuning VE and
injector tables at the same time, with the same data.
That's one equation minus two unknowns equals one
headache. If you have to go there, then take on the
"easy" one (the injectors, where you at least have some
sort of standard ratings and can take the fuel pressure
reading pretty simply / cheaply) first and let the VE
hold the bag on any residual error.
So if I have SVO 30# injectors and I am seeing 58 PSI fuel pressure, I should enter the following values in the injector scaling calculator?
Injector Rated Fuel Pressure: 40
Your Fuel Rail Pressure: 58
Injector Rated Flow Rate: 30
Then I change the MAP table according to the values the calculator gives me?
Injector Rated Fuel Pressure: 40
Your Fuel Rail Pressure: 58
Injector Rated Flow Rate: 30
Then I change the MAP table according to the values the calculator gives me?
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My bad. I meant IFR table.
I'm having issues with this calculator. The numbers it yields seem backwards and too high.
Here's the problem. I found some old threads that said to multiply the IFR table by 127% for SVO 30# injectors. The stock values are higher in the lower tables and lower in the higher tables. So multiplying by 127% does not change that. However, when I plug in the numbers in this calculator it yields lower numbers in the lower tables and higher numbers in the higher tables. Completely the opposite of the stock configuration! No to mention the final table in the calculator goes from 0kpa to 80kpa but in LS1Edit the table is from 100kpa to 20kpa.
Right now I don't have much faith in this calculator. Unless of course, multiplying by a constant is incorrect. 
Anyone care to explain why the Final Table numbers yielded in the calculator increase opposite of the stock numbers and why the table is from 0 to 80 kpa?
I'm having issues with this calculator. The numbers it yields seem backwards and too high.
Here's the problem. I found some old threads that said to multiply the IFR table by 127% for SVO 30# injectors. The stock values are higher in the lower tables and lower in the higher tables. So multiplying by 127% does not change that. However, when I plug in the numbers in this calculator it yields lower numbers in the lower tables and higher numbers in the higher tables. Completely the opposite of the stock configuration! No to mention the final table in the calculator goes from 0kpa to 80kpa but in LS1Edit the table is from 100kpa to 20kpa.
Right now I don't have much faith in this calculator. Unless of course, multiplying by a constant is incorrect. Anyone care to explain why the Final Table numbers yielded in the calculator increase opposite of the stock numbers and why the table is from 0 to 80 kpa?
Last edited by PewterZ28; Jun 3, 2005 at 09:40 AM.
Originally Posted by PewterZ28
My bad. I meant IFR table.
I'm having issues with this calculator. The numbers it yields seem backwards and too high.
Here's the problem. I found some old threads that said to multiply the IFR table by 127% for SVO 30# injectors. The stock values are higher in the lower tables and lower in the higher tables. So multiplying by 127% does not change that. However, when I plug in the numbers in this calculator it yields lower numbers in the lower tables and higher numbers in the higher tables. Completely the opposite of the stock configuration! No to mention the final table in the calculator goes from 0kpa to 80kpa but in LS1Edit the table is from 100kpa to 20kpa. Right now I don't have much faith in this calculator. Unless of course, multiplying by a constant is incorrect.
Anyone care to explain why the Final Table numbers yielded in the calculator increase opposite of the stock numbers and why the table is from 0 to 80 kpa?
I'm having issues with this calculator. The numbers it yields seem backwards and too high.
Here's the problem. I found some old threads that said to multiply the IFR table by 127% for SVO 30# injectors. The stock values are higher in the lower tables and lower in the higher tables. So multiplying by 127% does not change that. However, when I plug in the numbers in this calculator it yields lower numbers in the lower tables and higher numbers in the higher tables. Completely the opposite of the stock configuration! No to mention the final table in the calculator goes from 0kpa to 80kpa but in LS1Edit the table is from 100kpa to 20kpa.
Right now I don't have much faith in this calculator. Unless of course, multiplying by a constant is incorrect. Anyone care to explain why the Final Table numbers yielded in the calculator increase opposite of the stock numbers and why the table is from 0 to 80 kpa?
And to add my own experience, I tuned up some SVO 30#ers last week on a friends car, did calculations according to 40 psi, scaled an 01-02 IFR table, and the result was PERFECT. We set everything up for open loop wideband VE tuning just in case, but the IFRs referenced produced 12.8-13.3 while commanding 13.0 all over the VE.
I'm about to try some 42#ers myself next week, I'll post back.
Here's the math I used:
(58/40)^.5 X 30 = 36.12 lb/hr @ 58 psi (LS1 standard)
36.12/26.4 OR 28.7 = 1.368
Scalar for 99-00: 1.368
Scalar for 98,01-02: 1.258
Last edited by Ragtop 99; Jun 8, 2005 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Made the scalars easy to find (hope you don't mind ;) )
Originally Posted by jimmyblue
Changing injectors should produce no airflow changes
at all, and need no VE adjustment. Unless the new
injector has a very different snout, sticking into the
port or something.
When you changed the fuel model on the new delta-
rating-pressure basis you increased the flow value
and the PCM figured it needs less of it so you drift
lean in result.
Your actual system pressure vs 40 PSI should give you
an accurate fuel delivery scaling (as accurate as your
measurements and Ford's ratings). Fuel model doesn't
do a good job with the line losses (pressure drop @ flow)
though. Short pressure also makes short fuel.
You don't want to be in the position of tuning VE and
injector tables at the same time, with the same data.
That's one equation minus two unknowns equals one
headache. If you have to go there, then take on the
"easy" one (the injectors, where you at least have some
sort of standard ratings and can take the fuel pressure
reading pretty simply / cheaply) first and let the VE
hold the bag on any residual error.
at all, and need no VE adjustment. Unless the new
injector has a very different snout, sticking into the
port or something.
When you changed the fuel model on the new delta-
rating-pressure basis you increased the flow value
and the PCM figured it needs less of it so you drift
lean in result.
Your actual system pressure vs 40 PSI should give you
an accurate fuel delivery scaling (as accurate as your
measurements and Ford's ratings). Fuel model doesn't
do a good job with the line losses (pressure drop @ flow)
though. Short pressure also makes short fuel.
You don't want to be in the position of tuning VE and
injector tables at the same time, with the same data.
That's one equation minus two unknowns equals one
headache. If you have to go there, then take on the
"easy" one (the injectors, where you at least have some
sort of standard ratings and can take the fuel pressure
reading pretty simply / cheaply) first and let the VE
hold the bag on any residual error.
Wow, that would explain some things that I've run into. I'm running 60psi instead of 58, but this is a pretty considerable difference...
My old calcs:
4.36 | 4.39 | 4.42 | 4.44 | 4.47 | 4.50 | 4.52 | 4.55 | 4.57 | 4.60 | 4.62 | 4.65 | 4.67 | 4.70 | 4.72 | 4.74 | 4.77
New calcs:
4.63 | 4.66 | 4.69 | 4.71 | 4.74 | 4.77 | 4.80 | 4.82 | 4.85 | 4.88 | 4.90 | 4.93 | 4.95 | 4.98 | 5.01 | 5.03 | 5.06
I'm assuming this will lean me out considerably?
My old calcs:
4.36 | 4.39 | 4.42 | 4.44 | 4.47 | 4.50 | 4.52 | 4.55 | 4.57 | 4.60 | 4.62 | 4.65 | 4.67 | 4.70 | 4.72 | 4.74 | 4.77
New calcs:
4.63 | 4.66 | 4.69 | 4.71 | 4.74 | 4.77 | 4.80 | 4.82 | 4.85 | 4.88 | 4.90 | 4.93 | 4.95 | 4.98 | 5.01 | 5.03 | 5.06
I'm assuming this will lean me out considerably?
Originally Posted by SMOKINV8
Wow, that would explain some things that I've run into. I'm running 60psi instead of 58, but this is a pretty considerable difference...
My old calcs:
4.36 | 4.39 | 4.42 | 4.44 | 4.47 | 4.50 | 4.52 | 4.55 | 4.57 | 4.60 | 4.62 | 4.65 | 4.67 | 4.70 | 4.72 | 4.74 | 4.77
New calcs:
4.63 | 4.66 | 4.69 | 4.71 | 4.74 | 4.77 | 4.80 | 4.82 | 4.85 | 4.88 | 4.90 | 4.93 | 4.95 | 4.98 | 5.01 | 5.03 | 5.06
I'm assuming this will lean me out considerably?
My old calcs:
4.36 | 4.39 | 4.42 | 4.44 | 4.47 | 4.50 | 4.52 | 4.55 | 4.57 | 4.60 | 4.62 | 4.65 | 4.67 | 4.70 | 4.72 | 4.74 | 4.77
New calcs:
4.63 | 4.66 | 4.69 | 4.71 | 4.74 | 4.77 | 4.80 | 4.82 | 4.85 | 4.88 | 4.90 | 4.93 | 4.95 | 4.98 | 5.01 | 5.03 | 5.06
I'm assuming this will lean me out considerably?
I'll have to post up a log of driving with the old IFR and with the new one, before any VE changes, just as a reference.
Now all I need is the free time outside of work and/or school.
Now all I need is the free time outside of work and/or school.
Both of these were with DFCO enabled, so they may not be the best examples. I didn't disable DFCO when I did my first log a while back though, so I wanted to keep it an even playing field. The first log is also very thorough, compared to a couple 10-15 minute drives last night for the latter.
www.unrealhp.com/log.hpl
www.unrealhp.com/logpostIFR.hpl
www.unrealhp.com/logpostIFR2.hpl
The car did feel smoother with the new IFR though.
www.unrealhp.com/log.hpl
www.unrealhp.com/logpostIFR.hpl
www.unrealhp.com/logpostIFR2.hpl
The car did feel smoother with the new IFR though.
i hate to bring it up again, but this is now two separate cases for me pointing me to believe that both svo 30s and 42s are rated at 43.5psi.
My car's VE table didn't twitch when I scaled the IFR using the 43.5 psi on a 26.4->svo30 swap. Now I did friend's car going 28.8->svo 42 and the VE table was perfect again after the swap.
once is an accident, twice is a coincidence...now i just gotta try a 3rd car, and we'll have a rule
My car's VE table didn't twitch when I scaled the IFR using the 43.5 psi on a 26.4->svo30 swap. Now I did friend's car going 28.8->svo 42 and the VE table was perfect again after the swap.
once is an accident, twice is a coincidence...now i just gotta try a 3rd car, and we'll have a rule
what is a vehicle that comes factory with those 30# injectors?
not trying to throw this thread totally off course, but ford uses a 2 slope rating system. With a low slope, high slope, and a break point where it changes between the 2.
Here are the actual values as found in a CXN1 lightning, 2001-2 approx model year. These come stock with the lime green SVO 42# injectors.
The values are:
High Slope 40.680
Low SLope 48.961
Fuel_Injector_Pressure_Drop 39.699
This shows these injectors when being used at 39.699# delta P to flow 40.68 #/hour for the high slope. (high fuel demands) If you convert them to 43.5 # delta P, the flowrate becomes 42.58 according to my hptuners calculator.
Ryan
not trying to throw this thread totally off course, but ford uses a 2 slope rating system. With a low slope, high slope, and a break point where it changes between the 2.
Here are the actual values as found in a CXN1 lightning, 2001-2 approx model year. These come stock with the lime green SVO 42# injectors.
The values are:
High Slope 40.680
Low SLope 48.961
Fuel_Injector_Pressure_Drop 39.699
This shows these injectors when being used at 39.699# delta P to flow 40.68 #/hour for the high slope. (high fuel demands) If you convert them to 43.5 # delta P, the flowrate becomes 42.58 according to my hptuners calculator.
Ryan