Does a new converter need tuning?
02-12-2004, 07:56 PM
#1
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Does a new converter need tuning? Ok, my SY 3500 converter just came in 
. My question is, After I install the converter, do I have to get the car tuned?
Thanks!
. My question is, After I install the converter, do I have to get the car tuned? Thanks!
02-12-2004, 08:41 PM
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I don't think you'll -need- it, but I think you'll
-like- it a lot better if you can at least get the
trans tweaked up to sportify it. If you haven't,
already, you don't know what you're missing
with an automatic. Optimize shiftpoints and speed
up the shift times, and you will be mighty pleased.
-like- it a lot better if you can at least get the
trans tweaked up to sportify it. If you haven't,
already, you don't know what you're missing
with an automatic. Optimize shiftpoints and speed
up the shift times, and you will be mighty pleased.
02-12-2004, 09:10 PM
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probably want to hack the lockup down a little lower so your city mpg isn't horrific. mine locks up in 3 at 1000rpm and same in 4th. Before that i was getting 9mpg max since speed limit is 30-35 and 45mph lockup was barely used.
Torque management? maybe delete it if you feel like it.
transgo should handle the shift pressure, and trans-cooler,thats a must.
Torque management? maybe delete it if you feel like it.
transgo should handle the shift pressure, and trans-cooler,thats a must.
02-12-2004, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by samz28
probably want to hack the lockup down a little lower so your city mpg isn't horrific. mine locks up in 3 at 1000rpm and same in 4th. Before that i was getting 9mpg max since speed limit is 30-35 and 45mph lockup was barely used.
Torque management? maybe delete it if you feel like it.
transgo should handle the shift pressure, and trans-cooler,thats a must.
Torque management? maybe delete it if you feel like it.
transgo should handle the shift pressure, and trans-cooler,thats a must.
There's no way! Is there? This is my daily driver. I'm going to do the trans-cooler, but what's with the transgo? What is it and what is it for?More help please!!!!
02-12-2004, 10:52 PM
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The trans go is a shift kit. Your tranny will feel loose with your new converter, kinda like a slipping clutch. The shift kit will make your tranny shift firmer, and help to make it feel tigher. Also should help extend the life of your tranny. A shift kit isn't a must, but lots of people have them. Infact yank doesn't recomend one, although I put one in my new tranny. Yes your mpg will drop, especially when your in the city. If your out on the highway it shouldn't change because your converter will lock up.
02-12-2004, 10:58 PM
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Tuning isn't a must, but to get everything out of your new setup its nice to be able to adjust shiftpoints. If you tune it I wouldn't increase the line pressure. More line pressure will increase shift firmness, so if you combine this with a shift kit, the combination of the two put together may be too much and acually will shorten the life of your tranny.
02-12-2004, 11:04 PM
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Then how does a shift kit extend the life of the tranny if it increases line pressure?
Is a shift kit recommended over tuning? or the other way around? or neither?
Is a shift kit recommended over tuning? or the other way around? or neither?
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02-12-2004, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyper Chick
Then how does a shift kit extend the life of the tranny if it increases line pressure?
Is a shift kit recommended over tuning? or the other way around? or neither?
Is a shift kit recommended over tuning? or the other way around? or neither?
02-12-2004, 11:12 PM
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A shift kit is up to you, it shouldn't hurt anything as long as its done right, and with a good kit like transgo. What I meant in my other post is that it is possible to have too much line pressure.
Last edited by SnakeKiller; 02-12-2004 at 11:17 PM.
02-13-2004, 07:05 AM
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just telling ya i got (before lockup tweak points) 120 miles to 14 gallons of gas mate. You will realize as you pull 2000-2500 until you reach (lockup mpg) what loose-ness means. I think those that don't do 99% city driving are the ones who dont notice it as much. But i do. like 2 miles to work a day with the return trip taking 15-20 minutes. MPG SUXX. Now when im over 30mph in 3rd i can lock it up. I also have some engine mods and 3.42's to decrease performance. If its any consolation the 245-50-16 nitto's pretty much suck *** under 30mph i can just floor it and watch the tail end go all over the place laying drag 
Not very impressive to the cops though,so i don't do it.
even with ASR on, i can lay about 10 feet of drag with the nitto dr's before it catches up. QUITE dangerous when wet outside. I wouldn't drive my car with street tires on the rear, i'd die for sure.
Not very impressive to the cops though,so i don't do it.even with ASR on, i can lay about 10 feet of drag with the nitto dr's before it catches up. QUITE dangerous when wet outside. I wouldn't drive my car with street tires on the rear, i'd die for sure.
02-13-2004, 09:32 AM
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I dropped maybe 1MPG going from stock converter
to a 3000/2.2 aftermarket, and a cooler thermostat.
A moderate TC is not going to kill your mileage if
you don't romp on it all the time. Not a 10MPG drop,
unless every stoplight starts to look like a track tree.
Cooler is definitely something you should do and an
easy 1-hour driveway mod (or half an hour shop
rates if it's on their lift already). Go big, and consider
having them "hide" it between the A/C condenser
and the radiator.
If you get tuned you probably won't miss the shift kit.
If you put the shift kit you would only want tuning of
the shiftpoints. Messing with baseline pressure is not
something you should do blind. The shift adaptation
time is what makes these cars feel soggy and scrub
the clutches overly long. A stock(ish) car doesn't
need any more base line pressure for holding power,
it just needs its attitude adjusted (the apply pressure
is PWM-regulated down and feathered for that Cadillac
shift feel).
The shift kit is something that can be done later, it's
a pan-access deal. People who have done them, like
the results, but it's something that could wait one
more payday. You might get a better deal out of a
single session install-all if you haggle up front though.
I think the TCI kit will be easier & faster to do than
the Trans-Go.
Speaking of pans, you might get advised to put a deep
pan on. But I've found that there's such a thing as too
deep, on a slightly lowered car... the deepest TCI pan
is the lowest hanging thing on my car now and I've
bottomed it on speed bumps; have ordered a less-deep
steel pan to replace it, just to gain back the ground
clearance (and get something that will dent instead
of crack).
Oh, and the flexplate - the '01/'02s used a newer,
cheesier flexplate that several people have had the
webs crack on; I had a '98 flexplate put on mine,
it's sturdier by far. There are also fancy ones out
there but a clean '98 ought to set you back under
$50. I got mine from Valvegod but you might find
local; just don't want any worn ring gear teeth on
a used part. The flexplate swap is a no-effort bit
during a TC install and good peace of mind.
to a 3000/2.2 aftermarket, and a cooler thermostat.
A moderate TC is not going to kill your mileage if
you don't romp on it all the time. Not a 10MPG drop,
unless every stoplight starts to look like a track tree.
Cooler is definitely something you should do and an
easy 1-hour driveway mod (or half an hour shop
rates if it's on their lift already). Go big, and consider
having them "hide" it between the A/C condenser
and the radiator.
If you get tuned you probably won't miss the shift kit.
If you put the shift kit you would only want tuning of
the shiftpoints. Messing with baseline pressure is not
something you should do blind. The shift adaptation
time is what makes these cars feel soggy and scrub
the clutches overly long. A stock(ish) car doesn't
need any more base line pressure for holding power,
it just needs its attitude adjusted (the apply pressure
is PWM-regulated down and feathered for that Cadillac
shift feel).
The shift kit is something that can be done later, it's
a pan-access deal. People who have done them, like
the results, but it's something that could wait one
more payday. You might get a better deal out of a
single session install-all if you haggle up front though.
I think the TCI kit will be easier & faster to do than
the Trans-Go.
Speaking of pans, you might get advised to put a deep
pan on. But I've found that there's such a thing as too
deep, on a slightly lowered car... the deepest TCI pan
is the lowest hanging thing on my car now and I've
bottomed it on speed bumps; have ordered a less-deep
steel pan to replace it, just to gain back the ground
clearance (and get something that will dent instead
of crack).
Oh, and the flexplate - the '01/'02s used a newer,
cheesier flexplate that several people have had the
webs crack on; I had a '98 flexplate put on mine,
it's sturdier by far. There are also fancy ones out
there but a clean '98 ought to set you back under
$50. I got mine from Valvegod but you might find
local; just don't want any worn ring gear teeth on
a used part. The flexplate swap is a no-effort bit
during a TC install and good peace of mind.
02-13-2004, 09:48 AM
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I don't believe you said, but if you already have a HPPIII you can maybe adjust shift points to help - IF you experience a problem, which you very well may not. After installing my TC (50K miles ago) I had a funky shifting problem that I finally diagnosed via Autotap. I ended up experimenting w/shift settings and eventually had to also set the rev limiter to 6300. My trans was actually shifting 1-2-1-2 at WOT, but I've never heard of anyone else having this problem. I'm just lucky, I guess. 
02-13-2004, 10:12 AM
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naw i actually baby it in the streets. The way its setup right now it locks around 1000 in 3rd/4th. Which helps. I can lockup in 3rd at like 20mph or something ridiculous and like 30-35 in 4th now which is a little low.
This helped a little. But remember its cold, my power gains (see sig) probably have to do with loss in mpg, and no i dont race it. I've already got a 68 in 35mph and Wreckless/no tag/no ins (lawyer got it down to laying drag). I just paid my insurance renewal for march 04 and it was $1193 for 6 months (my wife is 22 with a 2002 330ci bmw a $42K car). So i was jumping for joy when i saw my insurance didn't get whacked. She already did the scrape the pole (drive-thru) and got a new rear 1/4 panel on the bmw about the same time. so NO i drive like a ***** around town.
The cop that nailed me twice (same guy) drives a 383 stroker impala. Guess they like folks with fast cars. They are mall cops.
You see. I require about 1 minute of idle to go (in this cold weather) to warm up the motor to 100 so i dont waste my springs. Then im driving 2 miles home. All stop light. Max speed is 40-45 (+10 over included) so alot of the time i'm sitting, or creeping from a roll, before your verter locks up you'll find if you are lazy on the gas the car will pull at 2000-2500 rpm until it reaches lockup speed. This slippage is where the trans cooler does its work as the converter is EXTREMELY ineffecient at this point.
9mpg before lockup tweaking. Maybe 12mpg now. an M6 is far superior for city driving than an A4. I do NO freeway/over 45 mph driving unless its going to my bro's every other week. Or maybe when i travel to the track. I roll 25psi hot on the nitto 555R's in case i need to make use of the traction.
So far the 245-50-16 555R drag radials have never dead hooked. I might have to just go to the 1/8th track and practice with less tire pressure.
Btw one nifty thing you may not know about low lockup speed. You can feather almost 40-50% TPS before the converter will come unlocked. Say if your coming around a corner on a wet day, the converter is locked up, you push into about 60% TPS @ 45. The convert will unlock at about 1000-1200rpm then flash!! I was very very lucky i did that the ASR was on. The car kicked out sideways and the ASR saved me. But it was quite a learning experience.
Had i gas'd it any further i would have done a 360 im guessing. I didn't expect the converter to unlock and let loose a world of torque on me. Gotta be stupid careful driving the car in the rain.
This helped a little. But remember its cold, my power gains (see sig) probably have to do with loss in mpg, and no i dont race it. I've already got a 68 in 35mph and Wreckless/no tag/no ins (lawyer got it down to laying drag). I just paid my insurance renewal for march 04 and it was $1193 for 6 months (my wife is 22 with a 2002 330ci bmw a $42K car). So i was jumping for joy when i saw my insurance didn't get whacked. She already did the scrape the pole (drive-thru) and got a new rear 1/4 panel on the bmw about the same time. so NO i drive like a ***** around town.
The cop that nailed me twice (same guy) drives a 383 stroker impala. Guess they like folks with fast cars. They are mall cops.
You see. I require about 1 minute of idle to go (in this cold weather) to warm up the motor to 100 so i dont waste my springs. Then im driving 2 miles home. All stop light. Max speed is 40-45 (+10 over included) so alot of the time i'm sitting, or creeping from a roll, before your verter locks up you'll find if you are lazy on the gas the car will pull at 2000-2500 rpm until it reaches lockup speed. This slippage is where the trans cooler does its work as the converter is EXTREMELY ineffecient at this point.
9mpg before lockup tweaking. Maybe 12mpg now. an M6 is far superior for city driving than an A4. I do NO freeway/over 45 mph driving unless its going to my bro's every other week. Or maybe when i travel to the track. I roll 25psi hot on the nitto 555R's in case i need to make use of the traction.
So far the 245-50-16 555R drag radials have never dead hooked. I might have to just go to the 1/8th track and practice with less tire pressure.
Btw one nifty thing you may not know about low lockup speed. You can feather almost 40-50% TPS before the converter will come unlocked. Say if your coming around a corner on a wet day, the converter is locked up, you push into about 60% TPS @ 45. The convert will unlock at about 1000-1200rpm then flash!! I was very very lucky i did that the ASR was on. The car kicked out sideways and the ASR saved me. But it was quite a learning experience.
Had i gas'd it any further i would have done a 360 im guessing. I didn't expect the converter to unlock and let loose a world of torque on me. Gotta be stupid careful driving the car in the rain.
02-13-2004, 11:59 AM
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9 mpg is just rediculous. it makes sense that you make 2 mile trips to work going a max speed of 40 mph. But most of us drive a bit differently than that i think. i get 20+ with a PT4400 combined city/highway.
02-13-2004, 12:13 PM
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Yes so i warn city drivers. My car went from a easy to drive, quiet comfy powerful car, to a freaking monster in many respects (1 minute cold starts (springs), loud (when unlocked up to 30-40mph), gas eater (when unlocked)).
Alot of other people might be in the same boat. Say if you had to drive 1 hr in traffic home and back, you might not want to mod your car to the extent i have.
Better yet. I have a nifty little corrado g60. It's an 8:1 1.8 with 16psi of boost (11@2000rpm). Although its tuned currently for 93 i can detune the on-the-fly chip to 87 octane. It's one of those turn key, and go. Its not as comfy. But i have that option if i ever decide the mpg isnt worth it.
I was driving the wife's 2002 330ci and was like dayum. The Body is so tight. The steering is kick ***. Theres no body roll. But the DBW and the 5 speed auto was tripping me out. Instead of slipping, it would just always shift into optimal rpm ranges. And it was kinda slow lol.
So i was just expressing my condition of driving, and yah gas mpg is fine on highway maybe 22mpg. But i don't do that.
Btw, i would NEVER take this car on a road trip now. After headers/ORY the damn thing drones it would give you a serious headache.
Keep in mind when the torque converter is not LOCKED UP. you are causing alot of heat buildup under moving load because of the slip. It's likely i will burn up my trans fluid (and trans) alot faster than someone who did 60 miles a day all freeway non-stop. The summer i'll log my temps, and you'll probably see what im guessing. The wasted heat from slippage will do a number on the trans temps.
Why i had the lockup set so low, cause its alot less wasted energy (AKA HEAT)
Alot of other people might be in the same boat. Say if you had to drive 1 hr in traffic home and back, you might not want to mod your car to the extent i have.
Better yet. I have a nifty little corrado g60. It's an 8:1 1.8 with 16psi of boost (11@2000rpm). Although its tuned currently for 93 i can detune the on-the-fly chip to 87 octane. It's one of those turn key, and go. Its not as comfy. But i have that option if i ever decide the mpg isnt worth it.
I was driving the wife's 2002 330ci and was like dayum. The Body is so tight. The steering is kick ***. Theres no body roll. But the DBW and the 5 speed auto was tripping me out. Instead of slipping, it would just always shift into optimal rpm ranges. And it was kinda slow lol.
So i was just expressing my condition of driving, and yah gas mpg is fine on highway maybe 22mpg. But i don't do that.
Btw, i would NEVER take this car on a road trip now. After headers/ORY the damn thing drones it would give you a serious headache.
Keep in mind when the torque converter is not LOCKED UP. you are causing alot of heat buildup under moving load because of the slip. It's likely i will burn up my trans fluid (and trans) alot faster than someone who did 60 miles a day all freeway non-stop. The summer i'll log my temps, and you'll probably see what im guessing. The wasted heat from slippage will do a number on the trans temps.
Why i had the lockup set so low, cause its alot less wasted energy (AKA HEAT)
02-13-2004, 06:24 PM
#17
i have the same opinions as the rest ive definitly lost some mpg as my drive is less than 2 miles each way and i drive home for lunch as well so you can just imagine i have a tci shift kit so firmness isnt that big of an issue for me...i notice myself getting on it more now than even with my headers and converter its just badass and you want to get all over it every clear stretch of road you see
i have a tci shift kit so firmness isnt that big of an issue for me...i notice myself getting on it more now than even with my headers and converter its just badass and you want to get all over it every clear stretch of road you see
02-14-2004, 05:41 PM
#18
Yea, 
Yea, Im getting my TCI SS3500 in a week or so.. Cant wait. 
But im going to go with some 3:73's as well.. Nothing like going 60 and hitting 120 in 2 Sec. Yea baby!! Im going with a cooler and a shift kit as well..
Figured i would wait for tuning till i get my H/C install so i can get everything tuned at once.. 
Yea, Im getting my TCI SS3500 in a week or so.. Cant wait. But im going to go with some 3:73's as well.. Nothing like going 60 and hitting 120 in 2 Sec. Yea baby!! Im going with a cooler and a shift kit as well..Figured i would wait for tuning till i get my H/C install so i can get everything tuned at once..
09-02-2005, 04:46 PM
#20
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I just got my car back from putting a 4k stall in it and 3.73's and it HAD to have a tune. It was acting up alot without it, but with a couple hours of tuning, it runs flawless now. DEFINATELY will want a tune, althought you don't HAVE to have one. I couldn't do without, to say the least.