1970RSZ28

So I have a 1956 Ford F100 "Farm Truck" with a 5.3 4L60E swap. I've searched this sight and many others for a solution and haven't had one that works yet. The problem is that it has no overdrive. Its shifts perfectly 1-2 and 2-3. In third the converter locks. Its like its meant to be a three speed. It wont shift into overdrive if i shift it manually either. Its not throwing any codes either.

So far...

I've tested the TPS and it works fine.

I've changed out the 2/4 servo and inspected the 4th apply piston. I ordered a "corvette" 2/4 servo off of ebay and it didn't come with a new seal for the 4th apply piston. I inspected the seal that was on the 4th apply piston and it seems to be good. The seal looked perfect. When I wiped out the cylinder where the 2/4 servo goes I did notice a little bit of metal on the shop towel. Not too much but it was there.

Right after I changed out the servo I took the truck out for a cruise... and WTF i just barely felt it shift in to 4th. It happened 2 more times and I got excited...but that was it....it never happened again. So, depressed, i drove the truck back home and parked it.

I'm in the military in the middle of nowhere right now so it would be a long trip to get it to a shop where I could try to get them to command 4th and see what happens... Is there anyway I could command 4th myself by hooking in to the trans plug and grounding the proper solenoids? I really cant afford hptuners right now....

When I got home today I took the truck for another spin and it still had no fourth gear. So I made a video and thought I'd post it here. The TPS is in the bottom right of the gauge screen. The whine is the fuel pump in the factory tank behind the seat.


Any ideas would help
Thanks in advance for your help

72blownvert

Try and shim up the servo by extending the pin or go to a trans shop and see if the have a shim that comes in the trans go shift kits.Try that first.

mrvedit

He says he is in the middle of nowhere - so no nearby trans shop.

Extending the servo pin might make the band too tight; if it were slipping in 2nd and 4th then yes. If you find a method to tighten the servo/band, it should just barely let you turn the driveshaft by hand in both directions.

I wonder if the PCM tune somehow has 4th gear disabled. Sounds like that would be hard for you to check.

Yes, 4th gear could be commanded by grounding just shift solenoid "A". Not sure if doing that with the PCM connected might damage the PCM. (Probably not, but lets be safe.)

When you drop the pan, there is a hole in the case underneath the servo area. It is the 4th gear servo drain hole. If you have an air compressor and rubber nozzle you can also test the servo and band this way. I'm not sure if this test will hold air pressure or bleed off slowly, but any bleed should be slow enough that the band is firmly applied.

72blownvert

I get that the band could get to tight easily but all 4l60s are sloppy to begin with shimming it up will only help it.Op said after changing the servo it had 4th a couple of times then stopped working. I have fixed plenty of units with no 4th by shimming the servo with out having a problem on the 1-2 shift.There can also be a problem with a worn out 3-4 accumulator also.But we do need to see if the computer is commanding 4th or not.

performabuilt

iTrader: (25)

While I do feel that you have a band clearance issue here is some information on how to make a test box to see exactly what and when the PCM is commanding .

Frank

How to make a cool tool monitor to know what you trans is being told to do and when.
Parts- all from radio shack cheap
1-Three 12v LEDs They can be different colors(NO LIGHT BULBS WILL NOT WORK)
2-Some sort of bevel to mount them in Or you can mount them in a panel in your car permanent.
3-Three lengths of wire. Perferably different colors to avoid confusion.
4-Blue side wire splicers the type you use pliers to push down the tab to make a splice.

Ok you want to hook the three wires to the following in the harness either at the trans or find them at the PCM
A-Light green wire. This is the 1-2 shift solenoid.
B-Yellow with black stripe. This is the 2-3 shift solenoid
C-Tan wire with black stripe. This is the lockup (TCC)
solenoid.

Do not cut the wires use the slicers and connect your wires one to each and then run them into the car.
Inside the car take each wire and hook up to the negative side of the LEDs choose which ones you want to represent each solenoid.
Tie the POSITIVE side of all the LEDs together and run a wire to a 12v switched source(radio fuse)

Ok now its simple

(1-2)on and (2-3) on is 1st gear
(1-2)off and (2-3) on is second gear
(both off ) is 3rd gear
(1-2)on and (2-3) off is 4th gear
TCC on means your converter should be locked.


This IMO is cool and helpful no more will you wonder if that 2-3 shift that hit the limiter was tuning or trans related and you will know the time from comand to actual shift watching when the lights iluminate and feeling when the shift happens. This could be usefull when setting shift poits since the time is a constant.

No more wondering wether your converter not being locked is a tuning or transmission issue you will see when and if the PCM comands lockup and this can all be done for less than $10 and 30 minutes setting it up.

Hope someone finds this usefull was thinking I have explained this a dozen times to people trying to solve various lockup and shifting issue and may or may not have scanner tools and its proved invaluable to them so why not just post it for anyone who might wanna make a new toy/gadget.

mrvedit

Since he has more experience, I defer to his advice.
Good call on the 3-4 accumulator. Be warned that checking this requires dropping the valve body; you should have new gaskets available (if needed), extra check ***** and a diagram of where the checkballs and the different length bolts go.

1970RSZ28

Thanks for the help guys.....

I just happen to have all of the required stuff to build the transmission monitor. I will build it tomorrow and tell you guys what i find.

If I do end up needing to shim the servo pin should i just buy the "no groove" servo pin that is slightly longer than my "2 groove" servo pin? Should I buy a special shim? Or can I make one?

As far as the 3/4 accumulator.... Is there a way to test this?

mrvedit

Longer servo pins are available, they are intended to be ground down to the correct length. A local trans builder told me he just welds a bit to the tip and then grinds it down. Transgo makes shims which fit underneath the servo cover which pushes the entire servo in a bit further; don't see how you can make such shims as they are like a 4" washer with a 3-7/8" hole (i'm guessing at the exact size).

You can see a bit of the band with just the pan and filter removed. A big screwdriver can reach it and it should feel snug but still movable. Better - with the rear wheels in the air, engine off, trans in Neutral, you should be able to turn the driveshaft in both directions by hand (it is harder one way than the other). Increase servo length (or Transgo shims) until you cannot turn it by hand, then back off a 1/16" on servo length (or 1 shim) until you can turn it again.

An expert needs to confirm this, but I suspect that if the 4th gear servo test hole holds air, with only a slight bleed, that the 3/4 accumulator is ok.

I'm not an expert, so wait for confirmation or corrections to my instructions.

1970RSZ28

Alright so I ran the LEDs and had my wife video them while we took a cruise. The left light is the green wire, middle one is the yellow/black, and far right is the lock-up. Here's what we got.....


So it looks like it it's commanding all of the gears and has lock-up....

Next I'm gonna jack it up and do the "turn the driveshaft" test

I have a welder.... I'm wondering if I should weld a bit on the tip of my servo pin and try that or order some transgo shims..... Is there a specific amount I should add to the pin? I guess I might just look up how thick the transgo shims are and just add that much at time. Unless you guys think it's safer to just get the transgo kit....

OR........

Just say f&$k it and rebuild the thing....

mrvedit

Since your next planned step is to open up the servo, order a set of servo seals; stock ones are cut rings, Sonnax makes O-rings. Its only $5.
I'm not an expert and am guessing here, but I suspect a major leak in the servo could give your symptoms; or a cracked 4th servo piston.
Therefore, you could start with just these parts:
1. Servo seal kit; or rebuild kit
2. 4th servo piston (just stock, nothing fancy)

I don't know if Transgo sells their shims by themselves; perhaps a builder here has a few to spare and mail you in a 45 cent envelope.

Welding 1/8" to the servo pin should be enough; you might have to grind that down while doing the driveshaft test.

If you need directions on the servo, see my post #8 on this thread:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...ry-smooth.html

Let me know if you need a list of parts if you decide/need to go deeper.

1970RSZ28

I've already pulled out the servo and replaced it with a "corvette" servo.... I inspected the 4th apply piston and it looked good to me. I didn't replace the 4th apply piston seal though because the kit didn't come with one.... The seal looked good though....

I can't find the sonnax seal kit that you are talking about.... Would you happen have a link?

Tomorrow I am going to weld on the tip of my servo pin and then grind it down until the driveshaft just barely spins with my hands....

If that doesn't fix it then what else can I check? Could it be a 3/4 accumulator?

Thanks for the help guys

mrvedit

Excellent; sounds like you are very comfortable working on the trans. I think the Sonnax seal kit is: 77701-04SK

Couple of experts think its the band; hopefully that will solve it. If not, try compressed air on the 4th servo drain hole in the case. It is next to the gasket right under the servo. Even 50 psi air pressure should engage the band forcefully. The result of that test should let the experts suggest a next step.

1970RSZ28

Ok guys so I bought a new pin.... I also bought a seal kit. I installed the pin and the seals then did the driveshaft test and everything feels perfect. Took it out for a spin and still no 4th gear.

What else could it be? 3/4 accumulator?

Thanks....

mrvedit

Looking at troubleshooting section of the ATSG manual for "No 3-4 shift" it mentions the oil pump (doubtful in your case), the Valve Body (???), the 2-4 Servo which you have now checked and resealed, and the 3/4 accumulator.

I don't have the troubleshooting experience to feel comfortable suggesting checking the 3/4 accumulator next. For one thing, this is a bit more involved as it requires dropping the valve body, dealing with the loose check ***** and quite a few details including the critical step of installing the many different length bolts in the correct position. If you go this route, you will want replacement gaskets handy, probably a new separator plate (I suggest the Transgo '96 to '06 universal plate), some extra check ***** and a tub of vaseline to hold the checkballs. Only tools needed are a 8mm and 10 mm sockets, preferably with a 1/4" torque wrench for the 96 in/lbs. Also get a new 3/4 accumulator piston and spring. The Transgo HD2 instructions are helpful for placing the checkballs and the correct bolt locations.

However, first I hope more experienced people will chime in here.

Ben Feral Selinger

I hate to revive a super old thread, but having a strange issue that may be similar and sounds like performabuilt knows his stuff.
05 5.3/4l65e in my 98 XJ. Was working fine till recently.
I started throwing a P0740 a month or two ago, but the TC was always locking and unlocking correctly (ie: locks in 4th over 80km/h, and always unlocks when brakes applied). TC lock confirmed by TCC slip RPM dropping to 0 (I use a tablet with torque as my cluster).
Two weeks ago while on a short drive, the TC locked up in all gears. In first, at a stop, the engine would not stall, and the TCC slip RPM would come up to match engine speed, and didn't feel like it was struggling, but as soon as I hit 800rpm or around 4-5km/h, TCCslip drops to zero, and bangs into all gears.
I checked the wiring at the trans side and found the TCC wire (back to the ECU) was shorted to ground somehow. Pulled ECU harness and checked the wire there, no short, so I figured it must be shorting right at the pins due to corrosion. Cleaned up the connector and ECU pins and plugged it back in. Problem solved. Short disappeared and everything ran fine.
Then a few days later, I started throwing P1810, with no driveability issues. I figured it's gotta be a harness issue again. After unplugging/replugging the ECU side a few times, the code went away. Then code came back after a day or two. Pulled ECU and harness again to give it a better cleaning, plug back in, code gone again for several days, then came back, but again with no issues.
Then a few days later on a short drive, my cluster told me I was in 4th when I clearly wasn't. Also noticed that when I put shifter in 1st, I'd start in second. Turn off and back on and things get weirder.
When I put it in OD, my cluster shows me going through all 4 gears, but when it gets to 4th (on the display), it's clearly only in 3rd, as my RPM's are way too high (most of the time). But sometimes I clearly get 4th gear, but at highway speed when I'm expecting TCC RPM to drop to 0, I instead get -800RPM. I feel like this is probably because the ECU thinks the trans is in 3rd gear but it's actually in 4th, thus the TCC slip RPM being negative by almost exactly the same as the gear ratio.

Seems every time I unplug the harness, I get a slightly different issue. Either I get no 1st or 4th, or no 4th and negative TCC slip RPM. When I'm in 4th (on the shifter and TCCrpm is negative), if I down shift to 3rd (on the shifter), it definitely downshifts (or maybe TCC is unlocking), but the dash still says 4th. Same when I downshift to second. RPM's come way up, I can feel it downshift, but dash still says 4th.

My original thought was that one of the shift solenoids was stuck on (probably electrical), but no combination of one stuck on matches my symptoms. I'm sorta at a loss here. I'm just looking for a new ECU connector now so I can just rebuild my entire harness, but I hate working on anything before I at least have a solid theory as to the problem.
Idea's?

bbond105

It kind of sounds like the pressure manifold switch is bad. A defective switch will cause a lot of those symptoms.

Ben Feral Selinger

That's sorta where I'm at now, but I can't figure out why the problem kept changing. I don't see how the pressure manifold switch would have thrown the p0740 before (which went away after cleaning up the ECU connections), as well as the p1810.

I did some testing on it today, but the results didn't make any sense according to the only service manual I could find.
I probed into all the trans range switch wires and to ground. I figure since those switches are all 12V from the ECU and switched via ground in the manifold switch (correct me if I'm wrong), when the switch closes, I should see continuity. When I actually did this though, none of the switches are giving me continuity when I think they should.

With my setup, this SHOULD translate to switch A showing:
CLOSED
OPEN
CLOSED
CLOSED
CLOSED
CLOSED
OPEN

But I got something like:
CLOSED
CLOSED
OPEN
OPEN
OPEN
OPEN
OPEN

All the switches give a different combination, so I don't know if my test is invalid somehow, or the documentation I found is just wrong for my model/year, or the switch is just fucked. There's gotta be a way to prove the problem without blindly replacing parts.

Ben Feral Selinger

Condition 3 sounds the most likely in my case. The code usually sets after cruising at highway speed for a few seconds, though I believe it's been set once while in park.

I think what'd really help is knowing why my TCC slip RPM is negative. I suspect it's because the ECU thinks the transmission is only in 3rd, despite commanding 4th, but the reality is that the trans is in fact in 4th (this makes sense given my engine RPM in 4th at 100km/h is 2000, which is exactly correct). Anyone know how TCC slip rpm is calculated?

Ben Feral Selinger

Figured it out.

I was suspicious about all the switch signal combinations being wrong. 1/3rd of them being wrong would be realistic, but all being completely wrong didn't add up. I started tracing wires from ECU back to trans harness and found that NONE of them were where they were supposed to be, according to the only service manual I could find for the 4l60/5e, as well as almost every post I could find about it on the Internet (all of which were copied from that same manual).
Once I realized that everyone had just copied the same manual, I realized it was probably wrong. The manual shows the pin-outs for the trans harness side connector. The picture looks like a harness end, it says it's a harness end, and the 4l80e beside it IS the harness end, but turns out they'd actually fucked up and the pin-out was for the trans side (all reversed). I verified this real quick by confirming continuity back to the ECU using a mirrored pin out. All but two wires now checked out, with no continuity. (pink and dark blue). I can't remember what the pink one was and I'm too lazy to look it up. Dark Blue iirc was for range switch signal B or C. Once I fixed the break in each wire, everything runs as it should and codes are cleared. I feel like an idiot for spending 3 days on this, but at least I didn't listen to the 5 shops who all insisted this was clearly a mechanical failure and wanted to replace my trans for $5000 :p.

3 days and $0.001 worth of solder and heat shrink. Problem solved.

Ben Feral Selinger

Incidentally, this is the only reference for the plugs I've found that is correct:
http://www.askatech.com/AskATechLive...rack/G1010.pdf

The rest are all accurate in terms of diagnostics, but the pin-outs for the 4l60/5e are backwards.