is a converter recommended with a cam??
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 0
From: Southeast Texas
is a converter recommended with a cam?? someone said that with the cam I am getting (comp cam 224/230 .580/.570 112lsa) that i should get a converter because it would be hard to drive....
i didn't think it was a must to get a converter when getting a cam....
i didn't think it was a must to get a converter when getting a cam....
Its not a must with a very small cam, but your going to want a converter with a 224/230. You'll have a hard time without a converter. You probably won't be able to raise your idle, and its also going to try and surge. A would recommend a 3200 or bigger converter with that cam. There are some excellant tuners out there but I still think they'd have a hard time with that cam on a stock converter.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge
Its not imperitive that you get the convertor right away but you WILL want it after driving the car for a while. As for cam surge it won't be too bad but you will still have a little after a tune.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
Big cams + stock converters = SUCKY performance....for lack of better words.
You planning on running a big shot of nitrous with that thing? Just wondering because of the heavy exhaust bias of your cam.
You planning on running a big shot of nitrous with that thing? Just wondering because of the heavy exhaust bias of your cam.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 0
From: Southeast Texas
Originally Posted by Colonel
Big cams + stock converters = SUCKY performance....for lack of better words.
You planning on running a big shot of nitrous with that thing? Just wondering because of the heavy exhaust bias of your cam.
You planning on running a big shot of nitrous with that thing? Just wondering because of the heavy exhaust bias of your cam.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
Your exhaust side is fairly long, IMO. Your intake side is fine. Your total duration is borderline of being what I would call a big cam. Your 112 LSA combined with the total duration (these two adding up to a fair amount of overlap) is going to make drivability tuning more of a challenge than it would be if it were on a 114 with less total duration. But, you're looking for a rumpty idle I see so I guess you'll have to pay your dues! 
You need to be careful who you listen to. Look at what people do with 224 cams. Some folks run NA 10s. I ran 11.20 and 121.5 MPH with a 3525 lb raceweight, 3.23 gears, and heavyass stock wheels. You DO NOT NEED a big cam to go quick. In fact, a cam that is to big is far more likely to slow you down than one that is too small...especially if you don't know what you're doing.
Just a few years ago, a 224/224 was considered to be a big cam. Now it's considered to be only a moderate cam by most and a baby cam by some. People are really hung up on the big cam is better thinking and in most cases...it just doesn't pan out at the track. So, how much faster would the Colonel be if he took this same setup and tossed in a 224/230 cam? I'd bet that the ETs would be identical for all intents and purposes. What if I tossed in something like a 232/236 on a 112 with my same setup otherwise? I'm almost certain that I'd go slower. The converter and gearing would not match the power range. Peak HP and extremely high RPM power would be up just a little and everything else would be down ALOT!
You need to be careful who you listen to. Look at what people do with 224 cams. Some folks run NA 10s. I ran 11.20 and 121.5 MPH with a 3525 lb raceweight, 3.23 gears, and heavyass stock wheels. You DO NOT NEED a big cam to go quick. In fact, a cam that is to big is far more likely to slow you down than one that is too small...especially if you don't know what you're doing.
Just a few years ago, a 224/224 was considered to be a big cam. Now it's considered to be only a moderate cam by most and a baby cam by some. People are really hung up on the big cam is better thinking and in most cases...it just doesn't pan out at the track. So, how much faster would the Colonel be if he took this same setup and tossed in a 224/230 cam? I'd bet that the ETs would be identical for all intents and purposes. What if I tossed in something like a 232/236 on a 112 with my same setup otherwise? I'm almost certain that I'd go slower. The converter and gearing would not match the power range. Peak HP and extremely high RPM power would be up just a little and everything else would be down ALOT!
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 0
From: Southeast Texas
Originally Posted by Colonel
Your exhaust side is fairly long, IMO. Your intake side is fine. Your total duration is borderline of being what I would call a big cam. Your 112 LSA combined with the total duration (these two adding up to a fair amount of overlap) is going to make drivability tuning more of a challenge than it would be if it were on a 114 with less total duration. But, you're looking for a rumpty idle I see so I guess you'll have to pay your dues!
You need to be careful who you listen to. Look at what people do with 224 cams. Some folks run NA 10s. I ran 11.20 and 121.5 MPH with a 3525 lb raceweight, 3.23 gears, and heavyass stock wheels. You DO NOT NEED a big cam to go quick. In fact, a cam that is to big is far more likely to slow you down than one that is too small...especially if you don't know what you're doing.
Just a few years ago, a 224/224 was considered to be a big cam. Now it's considered to be only a moderate cam by most and a baby cam by some. People are really hung up on the big cam is better thinking and in most cases...it just doesn't pan out at the track. So, how much faster would the Colonel be if he took this same setup and tossed in a 224/230 cam? I'd bet that the ETs would be identical for all intents and purposes. What if I tossed in something like a 232/236 on a 112 with my same setup otherwise? I'm almost certain that I'd go slower. The converter and gearing would not match the power range. Peak HP and extremely high RPM power would be up just a little and everything else would be down ALOT!
You need to be careful who you listen to. Look at what people do with 224 cams. Some folks run NA 10s. I ran 11.20 and 121.5 MPH with a 3525 lb raceweight, 3.23 gears, and heavyass stock wheels. You DO NOT NEED a big cam to go quick. In fact, a cam that is to big is far more likely to slow you down than one that is too small...especially if you don't know what you're doing.
Just a few years ago, a 224/224 was considered to be a big cam. Now it's considered to be only a moderate cam by most and a baby cam by some. People are really hung up on the big cam is better thinking and in most cases...it just doesn't pan out at the track. So, how much faster would the Colonel be if he took this same setup and tossed in a 224/230 cam? I'd bet that the ETs would be identical for all intents and purposes. What if I tossed in something like a 232/236 on a 112 with my same setup otherwise? I'm almost certain that I'd go slower. The converter and gearing would not match the power range. Peak HP and extremely high RPM power would be up just a little and everything else would be down ALOT!
i had another offer for someone selling a cam with the specs of 224/228 .567/.571 113lsa.... this is somewhat a smaller cam i assume... (i am trying to learn about this)....my other quesion is, how much differenet would the "rumpty" idle be between the cam in my first post and the cam in this one....
would this cam be easier to tune?
TECH Addict
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,065
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
My tci ssf3500 is too small for cam/boltons. I shift at 6600 and only get a 5100 Shift Extension. If i had to go back and do it again i'd rather shift at 6600 and land back near 6000rpm, which probably means i should just got a 4000 stall.
All the stalls can be hard hitting, if your SE sucks like mine does, i lose by not going down the track in peak whp.
I think the tcissf 3500 is great if i didn't have a cam. 6089 shift vaulting back to 4600 is just about right for all boltons/no cam car.
but that doesn't mean im unhappy with my choice, i'll just do what i got to do. I ran a 12.163 with 1.80 60' at 6089 shift (se=4600). Now that i've raised the shifts i'm hoping it might give me a 10th.
oh yeah get a big *** trans pan and a big-*** trans-cooler. Trust me, the dinky ones sold are not good for track abuse. First 80F day out i had my ECT/TRANS temps at 225 which sucks ***** for the poor trans fluid.
Line lock might be a good idea too as my brakes got iffy after too many hot runs. Seems the last run i did, the car WOULD NOT hold 2500rpm off the line, so my run was redlighted when the car leapt forward. I'm guessing my brake fluid was boiling or something after so many brake-stand burnouts. Which probably contributed to the high trans temps.
Don't forget the shift kit too, that way you don't need to dick around with line pressure hacks on the ecu.
All the stalls can be hard hitting, if your SE sucks like mine does, i lose by not going down the track in peak whp.
I think the tcissf 3500 is great if i didn't have a cam. 6089 shift vaulting back to 4600 is just about right for all boltons/no cam car.
but that doesn't mean im unhappy with my choice, i'll just do what i got to do. I ran a 12.163 with 1.80 60' at 6089 shift (se=4600). Now that i've raised the shifts i'm hoping it might give me a 10th.
oh yeah get a big *** trans pan and a big-*** trans-cooler. Trust me, the dinky ones sold are not good for track abuse. First 80F day out i had my ECT/TRANS temps at 225 which sucks ***** for the poor trans fluid.
Line lock might be a good idea too as my brakes got iffy after too many hot runs. Seems the last run i did, the car WOULD NOT hold 2500rpm off the line, so my run was redlighted when the car leapt forward. I'm guessing my brake fluid was boiling or something after so many brake-stand burnouts. Which probably contributed to the high trans temps.
Don't forget the shift kit too, that way you don't need to dick around with line pressure hacks on the ecu.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
Sam, you got a dynograph I could see? A 5100 SE, while not ideal for a 224 cam, should still work fairly well....what I mean is, it should not be slowing you down that much. I do agree that if you're looking to FULLY optimize track performance then you'll want a higher SE. I don't think a 4000 stall is going to get you a 6000 SE, however. My SS4000 has an SE of about 5350 shifting at ~6700. A PT4000 would tack on another ~400 RPM to that. A PT4400 would be just right for you if you don't care about streetability. You'd might pick up a few tenths and a MPH or so over your 3500.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
SS Girl, a 224/228 .567/.571 113lsa is still going to have a pretty healthy idle to it. The 2 degrees less duration makes only a little difference and the 1 degree more of LSA helps a little more than that (1 degree of LSA is equivelant to about 3.5 degrees of duration in regards to idle quality.) Add those two things together and there should be a noticable, but not a significant, difference. You're headed in the right direction. 
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
From: Pharr, TX
I have a question about this... I wanna get a cam too and right now I'm leaning toward a .581/.574 224/228 .050 duration, 112 lsa cam. I'm going to put in a SSf3500 and 3.42s by the end of may. The cam won't come until the end of summer. And right now all I've got is 3' exhaust, cut out, lid... Is this not the right cam to get? I've talked to several people and they've recommended this size of cam. I just want the perfect one for daily driving and will get me in the low to mid 12s...I'm just a baby.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
Stock exhaust manifold? If so, I'd say yes, that's a really good cam for that combo. If you'll have a good set of headers then you might make it a single pattern cam instead. As you probably know, going to a 114 LSA would help in the drivability and tuning department. It would also change the power curve in some ways. Do some reading on LSA in the internal section for details.
I agree with Colonel on the "big cam" vs "small cam'' theory. I have done my homework & came up with this combo.
I have the Yank SY3500, 323 gears, Long tubes ( ofcourse) & i am going with the Comp XER 220/581 @ a 114 LSA.
Perfect for my set up.. Wouldn't you say Col.???
I have the Yank SY3500, 323 gears, Long tubes ( ofcourse) & i am going with the Comp XER 220/581 @ a 114 LSA.
Perfect for my set up.. Wouldn't you say Col.???
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
From: Sheridan, AR
I have the G5X3 with a STOCK CONVERTER. I must say that i am going to get one ASAP. It really sucks as far as drivability goes. My car isnt that impressive as far as performance because of the "Big cams + stock converters = SUCKY performance" like Colonel said.
So what im saying is YES A HIGHER STALL CONVERTER IS NEEDED WITH A CAM
So what im saying is YES A HIGHER STALL CONVERTER IS NEEDED WITH A CAM
TECH Addict
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,065
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
my dyno is in my sig colonel. I'm not unhappy with my tci ssf3500, its just too small for me
the 112lsa cam i have is fine, idles at 700rpm requires a great bit of tuning to keep the 4th gear lockup between 35-40mph surge free (900rpm lockup). I need this since the speed limit is 35 and my tickets are growing astronomically lately.
the 112lsa cam i have is fine, idles at 700rpm requires a great bit of tuning to keep the 4th gear lockup between 35-40mph surge free (900rpm lockup). I need this since the speed limit is 35 and my tickets are growing astronomically lately.
We at VHP have a variety of camshafts that we build and use, dependiing on each individual's need. Whatever you are looking to do with your car, there is a cam to for it. We also do custom grinds. Here is a link to our cams and specs, (including overlap).
http://www.vincihighperformance.com/...AGE%20LS1.HTML
http://www.vincihighperformance.com/...AGE%20LS1.HTML