converter locked for upshifts.
converter locked for upshifts. I have a circle-d 3600 and I want to know how safe it is to have the converter locked during upshifts, specifically just for cruising to cut down on the noise and attention that 2500+ rpms draws with true duals.
I've been experimenting with locking in 3rd, and delaying the upshift, but I want to know if i can eliminate that flare when the converter unlocks in 3rd and upshifts to 4th.
I've been experimenting with locking in 3rd, and delaying the upshift, but I want to know if i can eliminate that flare when the converter unlocks in 3rd and upshifts to 4th.
That really comes down to cases and includes the
trans frictions & hard parts, not the converter alone.
Something is going to slip across the gear change,
and you want to tell them all not to. Who's going
to lose the argument, and how much will they bitch?
I set my car up to never lock in third, so I don't
have any concern about this.
trans frictions & hard parts, not the converter alone.
Something is going to slip across the gear change,
and you want to tell them all not to. Who's going
to lose the argument, and how much will they bitch?
I set my car up to never lock in third, so I don't
have any concern about this.
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
If you are the type that side steps the clutch with a manual transmission, then keeping the converter locked during shifts will give you the same effect.
As jimmyblue mentions, something has to give.
The benefit of not locking during the shift is that the engine will stay at a higher RPM (while converter slips a bit) and typically be producing more power.
As jimmyblue mentions, something has to give.
The benefit of not locking during the shift is that the engine will stay at a higher RPM (while converter slips a bit) and typically be producing more power.
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
My converter is set to not lock in 3rd also. I prefer it that way in case I select manual D. On to your point, a converter'd true dual'd car is about the loudest combination around. Shoulda thought that one through better. Change one.......I did. I now have a dual/dual catback and 4 inch cutout.
My converter is set to not lock in 3rd also. I prefer it that way in case I select manual D. On to your point, a converter'd true dual'd car is about the loudest combination around. Shoulda thought that one through better. Change one.......I did. I now have a dual/dual catback and 4 inch cutout.
I have only just started experimenting with this recently. I've been driving the car like this for years. Just looking to see what's possible. I'm only concerned with doing this at low load, low throttle position. Is this still a recipe for disaster?
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For me eliminating 3rd gear lockup was just a matter
of preference. I don't like it locking and unlocking on
the street at 35MPH, and didn't feel like spending the
time to get its manners right. I just keep the lockup
for the highway. My converter lets me cruise at pretty
low RPM at light pedal anyway.
of preference. I don't like it locking and unlocking on
the street at 35MPH, and didn't feel like spending the
time to get its manners right. I just keep the lockup
for the highway. My converter lets me cruise at pretty
low RPM at light pedal anyway.
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
Same here. Another benefit of not locking in third is that you can manually put it in third for freeway onramps and other situations where you need maximum responsiveness, without having it lock up and get boggy.
There is a decent amount of room in the pcm to customize this behavior. Right now at low TPS i have it locking in 3rd, and unlocking pretty much right where i want it. Higher TPS is set up to behave differently. I can understand having to run back to a tuner to dial things in is kinda too much. The only thing i was unsure about was locking for shifts. Figured it wasn't good at WOT but was unsure of how severe it was at <10% throttle.
Pretty sure unless its an aftermarket stall made to lockup at WOT, you'll burn the lockup clutch out really quick. I've got mine set to unlock in 4th at fairly low TPS so if I just need a little more power but not downshift I can.
If I am not mistaken, lockup apply and release can be controlled by TPS and MPH. For example, You can have it set to lock up in 3rd below 12% TPS only, or unlock at over 12% TPS, I dunno how much business is being done at that low throttle. I feel that the TCC can be tailored more or less to anyone's specific needs.
more often than not what I am talking about is a low speed roll where I will be using virtually no throttle or even no throttle prior to the hit, I can guarantee it would get in my way far more than it would help...that's why I turned it off, my previous tuner had left it on and it annoyed me several times
For me it also serves basically no purpose for my general driving conditions, either I am driving in town at 40-45mph in 4th or on the highway at 65-75mph...the times I have the car set to manual 3rd I am either on a road course, a winding backroad, the drag strip, or about to do something stupid on the street
I can't imagine there is enough fuel mileage to be gained within the gaps it would lock 3rd
but thank you, you did just remind me that I need to disable it in my truck too...when pulling large hills I often manually shift to 3rd for gear advantage and then the ******* converter locks and kills what I was trying to accomplish until I tap the brakes then give more throttle to try to keep it from locking again
it might have it's uses for some people and terrains but in my case I find it to be nothing but a severe annoyance
For me it also serves basically no purpose for my general driving conditions, either I am driving in town at 40-45mph in 4th or on the highway at 65-75mph...the times I have the car set to manual 3rd I am either on a road course, a winding backroad, the drag strip, or about to do something stupid on the street
I can't imagine there is enough fuel mileage to be gained within the gaps it would lock 3rd
but thank you, you did just remind me that I need to disable it in my truck too...when pulling large hills I often manually shift to 3rd for gear advantage and then the ******* converter locks and kills what I was trying to accomplish until I tap the brakes then give more throttle to try to keep it from locking again
it might have it's uses for some people and terrains but in my case I find it to be nothing but a severe annoyance
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
If I am not mistaken, lockup apply and release can be controlled by TPS and MPH. For example, You can have it set to lock up in 3rd below 12% TPS only, or unlock at over 12% TPS, I dunno how much business is being done at that low throttle. I feel that the TCC can be tailored more or less to anyone's specific needs.
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Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
You've still got a lot to learn. You sound like a textbook. The reality is it just doesn't happen that way in real time. And, if you think you can go from a locked position to full race in the blink of an eye then I'd like to race you! Depending on the circumstance, I've seen the computer take a full second of more to unlock going to WOT. If you're serious about leaving fast, you setup like we are suggesting. If it doesn't matter, your way is fine.
I didn't know, and I suspect many others didn't either, that the TCC lockup can take a significant amount of time to disengage. That is good to know.
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
And that's why I stated it. My response isn't an attack at anyone. However, I do recognize someone pointing out what "should" happen as opposed to what actually happens. He stated it in a matter of fact way leading people to believe it is fact, when it isn't. What I do believe in, is correct advice. I do not lead people to believe, I state what I know from experience, or I state where I got the info. Again, his method isn't wrong, but we are describing two different ways of driving. He needs to understand his way will not work for us, and ours may not for him.
Come on man, just trying to have a conversation about this. Everything I said prior to "I feel that" is true, whether or not it works in a race application, I'm not contesting that, never even tried it, whether or not its instantaneous, not contesting that either, didn't even mention it.
But what I'm asking and the reason I made this thread was regarding a specific behavior in a specific scenario that really has nothing to do with racing. Maybe for this guy or that guy its impractical. Maybe for most people its impractical. That's fine, I appreciate the input.
The bottom line really is that if i want to get in my car and crack the laptop open every day on my way to work and see if just maybe, I can make this **** work the way I intend or maybe I'll blow it up, **** it who cares. I was just asking about the safe limits.
But what I'm asking and the reason I made this thread was regarding a specific behavior in a specific scenario that really has nothing to do with racing. Maybe for this guy or that guy its impractical. Maybe for most people its impractical. That's fine, I appreciate the input.
The bottom line really is that if i want to get in my car and crack the laptop open every day on my way to work and see if just maybe, I can make this **** work the way I intend or maybe I'll blow it up, **** it who cares. I was just asking about the safe limits.
Last edited by spy2520; Jan 28, 2014 at 06:15 PM.
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
I understand, my original intent was simply to further explain what multiple people stated. It seems, we have two groups of thought here and I was merely going more in depth. The truth is the auto trans/computer can be kinda goofy at times. Mine, in OD at full throttle, would downshift first, then hesitate for a second before unlocking the converter. In D, it would let you go WOT for a second before unlocking, but in OD with mid throttle and no downshift the converter would unlock instantly. I guess my point is you need to try it for yourself and do whatever you like. I personally would not lock the converter during upshifts. Why? I don't think it will help mileage and I think its hard on the trans. That's just speculation but enough for me to steer clear.