Why do i keep buring up 3-4 clutchpack
Why do i keep buring up 3-4 clutchpack i have had this problem 6 times now and the tranny shop is lost. He builds alot of race trans, and said he has never seen one do this. i have exploded the inputshaft drum once and even had it mach*ined out to fit 9 clutches in it but still this las time it lasted 184 miles most of which were highway. The tranny has the ssf3500 and a transGo it in it nothin fancy.
PLEASE HELP
Blake
PLEASE HELP
Blake
9 clutches are TOO THIN -- you'll burn them up in no time -- get the raybestos blue 6-pack and you'll save yourself some friction loss and the clutches are thicker and handle heat better. The clutches were designed for high horsepower and a reasonable life, the alto 9 pack is just too thin -- take it from my experienes -- 4 trannies and two of them had toasted 9-packs -- I toasted one set of raybestos blue 6's cause my band failed, otherwise they'd still be good 
-- got a set going fine now in my current trans.
you also should have your pressures checked.
Alot of high-performance builders will remove the retaining springs in the 3rd gear pack, these springs are designed by OEM to prevent the 3rd gear clutches from grabbing in high rpms of 1st and 2nd -- some people thing removing the springs will net better shifts -- I don't believe that I believe it'll just cause the clutches to stick and burn up.
I also noticed you had your drum machined? so you are using 9 stock clutches? or are you using the alto reds?
-- got a set going fine now in my current trans.you also should have your pressures checked.
Alot of high-performance builders will remove the retaining springs in the 3rd gear pack, these springs are designed by OEM to prevent the 3rd gear clutches from grabbing in high rpms of 1st and 2nd -- some people thing removing the springs will net better shifts -- I don't believe that I believe it'll just cause the clutches to stick and burn up.
I also noticed you had your drum machined? so you are using 9 stock clutches? or are you using the alto reds?
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
I've actually had the best luck with Alto Reds (9 of them.) They may be thin, but the heat is spread out over a 50% larger area plus the material itself is excellent stuff.
If he's burning them up that quickly, I'd say the clutches aren't the problem. Even the stock ones will last awhile under some pretty good power if the rest of the tranny is setup right. It's all of the other things that control the clutches that will have you scratching your head wondering why you're rebuilding every other week (or every other day it seems in this case!)
Are you sure that TransGo is properly installed? All it takes is one little thing to be off.
If he's burning them up that quickly, I'd say the clutches aren't the problem. Even the stock ones will last awhile under some pretty good power if the rest of the tranny is setup right. It's all of the other things that control the clutches that will have you scratching your head wondering why you're rebuilding every other week (or every other day it seems in this case!)
Are you sure that TransGo is properly installed? All it takes is one little thing to be off.
hey listen up ummm, have your guy check your line rise.......repeat..... have your guy check your line rise. And when he's through checking that have him put a manual gage on it and check it again. once this is done have him install a vacume modulator on it and get rid of the electronic line rise...the system is junk........have a good day I hope this helps...Dave
Dont feel bad Ive smoked 3rd gear clutches in 12 trannys in the last year here.
3 different builders
4 different units
every upgrade made for the tranny installed
My best tranny was a near stock unit that has lasted me 4000 miles
Hi Energy clutches
Hi Energy band
z-pak 3/4 clutches
no shiftkit
After seeing posts where guys take apart there big named builder trannys just to find high energy stuff in there is a joke. WE took apart a 2000+ dollar *site sponsor* built tranny owned by a *moderator* on this site and took pictures. The tranny lasted 30 miles and had almost nothing that was on the build sheet that came with it. Not even a upgraded sunshell that would cost 40 bux. maby it had 200 bux in parts. Now thats bullshit. He hasnt made a big deal about it yet but hes a much nicer guy than i am.
Who can ya trust ??
I dont know anyone with over 400rwhp that has more than 5000 miles on there unit that actually race and beat on there car and drive it daily.
I know wait these guys who built my trannys dont know what they are doing right? but they do and do it for a living. Everyone of them have been on my car with mechanical pressure gauges blah blah.
If any builder thinks there tranny will last please step up and send one over. If it lasts 10,000 miles Ill be happy to pay for it and tell everyone you cracked the code.
3 different builders
4 different units
every upgrade made for the tranny installed
My best tranny was a near stock unit that has lasted me 4000 miles
Hi Energy clutches
Hi Energy band
z-pak 3/4 clutches
no shiftkit
After seeing posts where guys take apart there big named builder trannys just to find high energy stuff in there is a joke. WE took apart a 2000+ dollar *site sponsor* built tranny owned by a *moderator* on this site and took pictures. The tranny lasted 30 miles and had almost nothing that was on the build sheet that came with it. Not even a upgraded sunshell that would cost 40 bux. maby it had 200 bux in parts. Now thats bullshit. He hasnt made a big deal about it yet but hes a much nicer guy than i am.
Who can ya trust ??
I dont know anyone with over 400rwhp that has more than 5000 miles on there unit that actually race and beat on there car and drive it daily.
I know wait these guys who built my trannys dont know what they are doing right? but they do and do it for a living. Everyone of them have been on my car with mechanical pressure gauges blah blah.
If any builder thinks there tranny will last please step up and send one over. If it lasts 10,000 miles Ill be happy to pay for it and tell everyone you cracked the code.
Last edited by offaxis; May 12, 2004 at 09:49 AM.
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Originally Posted by Reckless
Some good info in here, but the best I can tell you is get a TH400 with gear vendors overdrive unti if you want to stop pulling your tranny every two weeks 
I like the 4l60 and maby in a lightweight car ( mine weighs 3600 with me) would last longer. The low first gear and od is exaclty what i want from a tranny.
My best tranny to date was actually my bone stock one that came with the car. It took almost 100 11 sec passes and countless 12 sec passes when I had 370 hp or less. But ofcourse the day My new h/c went into the car on my very first pass 3rd started slipping.
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Originally Posted by Reckless
Some good info in here, but the best I can tell you is get a TH400 with gear vendors overdrive unti if you want to stop pulling your tranny every two weeks
10 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,724
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From: Fenton, MI
I had a blue plate 3-4 clutch pack in my transmission and now the alto red 9 friction 3-4 clutch pack.
The blue plate 3-4 clutch pack burned up in a few thousand miles and the 2-3 shift always seemed like it was sliding into gear. After it got nuked, I installed the alto 9 friction. I don't have hardly any miles with the 9 friction 3-4 clutch pack, but it is working great so far. The 2-3 shift is very firm now.
The blue plate 3-4 clutch pack burned up in a few thousand miles and the 2-3 shift always seemed like it was sliding into gear. After it got nuked, I installed the alto 9 friction. I don't have hardly any miles with the 9 friction 3-4 clutch pack, but it is working great so far. The 2-3 shift is very firm now.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
"I dont know anyone with over 400rwhp that has more than 5000 miles on there unit that actually race and beat on there car and drive it daily."
I do...me! This stocker has 30,000 miles on it with absolutely no sign of fade. 10,000 of those have been with 423 RWHP. This is with a 3525+ raceweight, 4000 stall, and stock rearend gears. The tranny mods? A TCI shift kit and a cooler. That's it! Stock clutches, stock band, stock everything except for the shift kit.
I do...me! This stocker has 30,000 miles on it with absolutely no sign of fade. 10,000 of those have been with 423 RWHP. This is with a 3525+ raceweight, 4000 stall, and stock rearend gears. The tranny mods? A TCI shift kit and a cooler. That's it! Stock clutches, stock band, stock everything except for the shift kit.
Originally Posted by Colonel
"I dont know anyone with over 400rwhp that has more than 5000 miles on there unit that actually race and beat on there car and drive it daily."
I do...me! This stocker has 30,000 miles on it with absolutely no sign of fade. 10,000 of those have been with 423 RWHP. This is with a 3525+ raceweight, 4000 stall, and stock rearend gears. The tranny mods? A TCI shift kit and a cooler. That's it! Stock clutches, stock band, stock everything except for the shift kit.
I do...me! This stocker has 30,000 miles on it with absolutely no sign of fade. 10,000 of those have been with 423 RWHP. This is with a 3525+ raceweight, 4000 stall, and stock rearend gears. The tranny mods? A TCI shift kit and a cooler. That's it! Stock clutches, stock band, stock everything except for the shift kit.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
I have done a little programming as well. Set your desired shift times to 0 to quicken the shifts. Leave the pressure stock. The shift kit will take care of that. Delete the TQ management.
Tell you what else you might do. When we first did the heads/cam setup I was convinced that the stocker would take a dive soon. So, I ordered up ALL KINDS of goodies for the little 4L60-E from TCI. Well, 10,000 miles later they're still sitting in the box! LOL! Guess I'm using Murphy's Law to my advantage.
Tell you what else you might do.
When we first did the heads/cam setup I was convinced that the stocker would take a dive soon. So, I ordered up ALL KINDS of goodies for the little 4L60-E from TCI. Well, 10,000 miles later they're still sitting in the box! LOL! Guess I'm using Murphy's Law to my advantage. 
your probably using the alto's and thats your problem. you need to use the Raybestos Z-pak. i burnt the altos up right away and then the z-pak came out and they have held up fine. i dont even try to sell the altos anymore if they are going into a high performance car.
Last edited by CamaroCain; May 13, 2004 at 10:52 PM.
I think it might be pump related. At the higher RPMs the stock pump pressure will flucuate and not hold consistant pressure. They sell a what they call a rev kit to install in the pump. It's nothing more than a spring and differant plunger that is installed inside the pump. It keeps the pressure consistant at the higher RPMs. I'm no expert but thats what was done to mine and it's been working great for the last year. I have the blue plate 3/4 pack with colene steels, and the Alto reds on the low gear clutches. The trans also has a trans-go shift kit with a modified accumilater for firmer shifts. Like I said I'm no expert but a local guy did the work and it's worked great for the last year.
TJ
TJ
Originally Posted by WicketMike
your probably using the alto's and thats your problem. you need to use the Raybestos Z-pak. i burnt the altos up right away and then the z-pak came out and they have held up fine. i dont even try to sell the altos anymore if they are going into a high performance car. If you want a Z-Pak, send me a pm
I second that. The clutches that are lasting the longest in my car is the z-pak.
I'm having the same problem, but I dies with just normal driving. It has been rebuilt the last 4 times and the last 2 had no abuse. Just a 250 mile trip and went out burning 3rd and 4th again. Nothing wrong with 1 and 2. I am having a manual valve body put in this minute to see if that helps.
Originally Posted by WicketMike
your probably using the alto's and thats your problem. you need to use the Raybestos Z-pak. i burnt the altos up right away and then the z-pak came out and they have held up fine. i dont even try to sell the altos anymore if they are going into a high performance car. If you want a Z-Pak, send me a pm
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Joined: Apr 2004
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I have had much success with 8 & 9 clutch 3-4 packs, using the Borg Warner Hi-Energy's, with Kolene steels (.045-.055" clearance). Along with this to ensure longevity, I add the Trans-Go Hi-Rev spring kit to replace the slow release springs in the input drum, Corvette servo for the 3rd gear accumulation, "modified" Trans-Go Performance Shift kit, etc. These 3-4 clutch setups have done very well for me in the last 8 years. I was not impressed with the Alto Reds, or the Blue Plate Specials for Street/Strip use. For Strip only, the BPS's do ok, but expensive. It is not the "clutches" alone that make the 3-4 pack last, it is a combination of the above that make it work.
I have a question for those with the alto reds or the hi-energy clutches. Does your tranny still hit the rev limiter before it shifts or are all the shifts really hard and clean? My tranny went out on my stock car after 30,000 miles. I rebuilt it with the TCI kit out of Summit but it still hits the rev limiter sometimes. Now the reason might be because i still have torque management on my car or it just might be that the 4L60E is just crap. Thanks