4l60e 500whp?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
4l60e 500whp? Hey guys! Got an old truck with lm7 and 4l60e. Planning on turbo charging it and aiming for around 450-500whp My first thought was running a stock 4l80e but the conversion and buying the actual tranny ofc costs a bit. So how much would it cost to build the 4l60e for 500whp? This is a fun daily so it wont be a track car but will ofc try it a few times hehe.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,614
Likes: 1,326
From: Iowa
While ddnspider is correct that some guys get away with that...and he can tune them very well is is knowledgeable
but I've been inside my fair share of 300hp trans that were toasted in stock form with good tune.
These trans have inherent fluid leaks. They are mechanically limited pressure wise in stock form. They have limited clutch capacity. They have HUGE circuit leaks. etc
Yes...its possible...but no it's not the best idea imo
but I've been inside my fair share of 300hp trans that were toasted in stock form with good tune.
These trans have inherent fluid leaks. They are mechanically limited pressure wise in stock form. They have limited clutch capacity. They have HUGE circuit leaks. etc
Yes...its possible...but no it's not the best idea imo
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,614
Likes: 1,326
From: Iowa
That's a silly question
How bout...anywhere from 300hp to 1100 hp
I can find you examples of both of those power levels.
Every single junkyard trans I've ever pulled has had at least one, if not multiple issues.
How bout...anywhere from 300hp to 1100 hp
I can find you examples of both of those power levels.
Every single junkyard trans I've ever pulled has had at least one, if not multiple issues.
While ddnspider is correct that some guys get away with that...and he can tune them very well is is knowledgeable
but I've been inside my fair share of 300hp trans that were toasted in stock form with good tune.
These trans have inherent fluid leaks. They are mechanically limited pressure wise in stock form. They have limited clutch capacity. They have HUGE circuit leaks. etc
Yes...its possible...but no it's not the best idea imo
but I've been inside my fair share of 300hp trans that were toasted in stock form with good tune.
These trans have inherent fluid leaks. They are mechanically limited pressure wise in stock form. They have limited clutch capacity. They have HUGE circuit leaks. etc
Yes...its possible...but no it's not the best idea imo
For anyone planning on a drag car, maximum power to the ground during shifts, and long-term reliability..... go built trans. Trending Topics
11 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,000
Likes: 134
Even the best 4l60e will eventually kill the 3-4 clutch pack if you drive your car hard. I just recently killed the 4l60e in my daily driver, stock ls1 tuned/exhaust/intake only. Got home in 2nd gear. Swapped it out with another good runner 4l60e I had. I'll put a new clutch pack in the other one when I have the time so it's ready for when this one dies.
In it's defense, i have abused the crap out of it.
If you don't mind swapping them out now and again, the 4l60e will hold for a while.
In it's defense, i have abused the crap out of it.
If you don't mind swapping them out now and again, the 4l60e will hold for a while.
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TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
Even the best 4l60e will eventually kill the 3-4 clutch pack if you drive your car hard. I just recently killed the 4l60e in my daily driver, stock ls1 tuned/exhaust/intake only. Got home in 2nd gear. Swapped it out with another good runner 4l60e I had. I'll put a new clutch pack in the other one when I have the time so it's ready for when this one dies.
In it's defense, i have abused the crap out of it.
If you don't mind swapping them out now and again, the 4l60e will hold for a while.
In it's defense, i have abused the crap out of it.
If you don't mind swapping them out now and again, the 4l60e will hold for a while.
With the needed hydraulic improvements and the aftermarket drums from Sonnax and 4L79 that are available today...
There is really no reason the 3-4 clutch assembly should be burning/ wearing prematurely anymore.
Even before those two drums made it to market... hydraulic improvements (especially in the 3-4 signal, 3-4 clutch, and 3rd accumulator circuits, 3-2 control and 3-2 down-shift valves) the 4l65E apply plate, frictions, steels, and proper tight 3-4 clutch and 2-4 band clearance...
Would keep things drastically more alive!
Knight and day difference vs the very early designs of the stock THM700-R4 that has evolved into what we have today 37 years later. :-)
With everything we have today... I simply wish there were room for a larger 3-4 apply piston, as well as an extremely light but strong and rigid apply finger cage, and apply plate.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,913
Likes: 366
From: White Bear, Mn
With the needed hydraulic improvements and the aftermarket drums from Sonnax and 4L79 that are available today...
There is really no reason the 3-4 clutch assembly should be burning/ wearing prematurely anymore.
Even before those two drums made it to market... hydraulic improvements (especially in the 3-4 signal, 3-4 clutch, and 3rd accumulator circuits, 3-2 control and 3-2 down-shift valves) the 4l65E apply plate, frictions, steels, and proper tight 3-4 clutch and 2-4 band clearance...
Would keep things drastically more alive!
Knight and day difference vs the very early designs of the stock THM700-R4 that has evolved into what we have today 37 years later. :-)
With everything we have today... I simply wish there were room for a larger 3-4 apply piston, as well as an extremely light but strong and rigid apply finger cage, and apply plate.
There is really no reason the 3-4 clutch assembly should be burning/ wearing prematurely anymore.
Even before those two drums made it to market... hydraulic improvements (especially in the 3-4 signal, 3-4 clutch, and 3rd accumulator circuits, 3-2 control and 3-2 down-shift valves) the 4l65E apply plate, frictions, steels, and proper tight 3-4 clutch and 2-4 band clearance...
Would keep things drastically more alive!
Knight and day difference vs the very early designs of the stock THM700-R4 that has evolved into what we have today 37 years later. :-)
With everything we have today... I simply wish there were room for a larger 3-4 apply piston, as well as an extremely light but strong and rigid apply finger cage, and apply plate.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
After years of using as many plates as will fit (Borg Warner High Energy friction plates or more recently some-times Raybestos GPS friction plates) in an OEM drum with great success... I now have even better results (Of Course) with:
The use of the Sonnax drum with one or two additional frictions. Which has been amazing!
Lastly using the 4L79E drum with THM350 Raybestos Stage 1 friction plates has made me so happy to build the THM700-R4 and 4L60E/ 65E/ 70E/ 75E units again.
Years ago when the THM700-R4 units were more popular... I would steer people towards a THM200-4R unit instead.
I personally much prefer the THM200-4R with upgraded hard parts over the THM700-R4.
If the THM200-4R was not more expensive to produce than the THM700-R4, I believe we would have an electronic version today and not the 4L60E based units.
I mean look what went into the THM700-R4/ 4L60E and 4L80E units from the THM200-4R in terms of parts design!
The use of the Sonnax drum with one or two additional frictions. Which has been amazing!
Lastly using the 4L79E drum with THM350 Raybestos Stage 1 friction plates has made me so happy to build the THM700-R4 and 4L60E/ 65E/ 70E/ 75E units again.
Years ago when the THM700-R4 units were more popular... I would steer people towards a THM200-4R unit instead.
I personally much prefer the THM200-4R with upgraded hard parts over the THM700-R4.
If the THM200-4R was not more expensive to produce than the THM700-R4, I believe we would have an electronic version today and not the 4L60E based units.
I mean look what went into the THM700-R4/ 4L60E and 4L80E units from the THM200-4R in terms of parts design!
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
Thanks to help from guys here I have a few successful builds under my belt. I have taken and done advice and tips given and so far I have yet to burn up a clutch pack. I have only broke hard parts. I spin mine to 7100 rpms and inspecting during tare down the 3-4 clutch pack has been in very good shape each time. Reason for this post is I agree with the quoted message and it holds true.
Great job on your build!
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Thanks ALOT guys! Im all new to this so appriciate every help I can get! So anyone got a good build recipe that would fit my needs? Its fitted in a 69 F100. Wont track it much, fun daily that I wanna be able to abuse when I want lol. Both tranny and engine is a 2003 =) Since this isnt something ive done before I prob will let a shop do it
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Or if there is like a complete kit I could buy that would be the easiest lol. Asked around on some swedish forums and got a recipe from 2008 that ppl keep talking about, long post sorry but what do you think? btw dunno why the text got so dark but if you mark it its easier to read lol
From Transmission Parts USA:
35764CK $21.79
13 Vane Pump Upgrade 2 heavy duty vane rings, 13 slot rotor guide, 13 slot rotor, 13 vanes
From Bulk Part
A74654A $16.43
Sprag low/reverse wide
A74658B $41.85
Sprag forward 29 element dual cage
74200 $12.61
Thrust Washer Kit
74201A $16.45
Bearing Kit
T74167 $25.38
TransGo Shift Kit Jr. (at least this, if not a full blown shift kit)
A74584C $67.50
5 Pinion Rear Planetary
D74582B $164.66
5 Pinion Front Planetary
A74905BAK $16.90
Servo Kit & Boost Sleeve Corvette servo, new 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator pistons, and new TV boost valve and sleeve
T54450A $9.30
Adjustable detent cable (TV cable) 700R4
A74536K $0.43
Pump Slide Spring Kit
Transmission Center
11CF $19.00
Alto Carbon Fiber 2-4 Band
14-2 $205.00
Alto Red Eagle Master Rebuild Kit gasket and seal kit, metal clad seals, ring kit, all Red Eagle Performance clutches, all high performance kolene steels, high performance 3-4 Red Eagle power pack.
45 $298.00
Extreme Duty Torque Drive Package hardened input shaft and new input drum, beast reaction shell, new low reverse sprag hardened input gear trimmed w/thrust bearing to replace thrust washer.
From Transmission Parts USA:
35764CK $21.79
13 Vane Pump Upgrade 2 heavy duty vane rings, 13 slot rotor guide, 13 slot rotor, 13 vanes
From Bulk Part
A74654A $16.43
Sprag low/reverse wide
A74658B $41.85
Sprag forward 29 element dual cage
74200 $12.61
Thrust Washer Kit
74201A $16.45
Bearing Kit
T74167 $25.38
TransGo Shift Kit Jr. (at least this, if not a full blown shift kit)
A74584C $67.50
5 Pinion Rear Planetary
D74582B $164.66
5 Pinion Front Planetary
A74905BAK $16.90
Servo Kit & Boost Sleeve Corvette servo, new 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator pistons, and new TV boost valve and sleeve
T54450A $9.30
Adjustable detent cable (TV cable) 700R4
A74536K $0.43
Pump Slide Spring Kit
Transmission Center
11CF $19.00
Alto Carbon Fiber 2-4 Band
14-2 $205.00
Alto Red Eagle Master Rebuild Kit gasket and seal kit, metal clad seals, ring kit, all Red Eagle Performance clutches, all high performance kolene steels, high performance 3-4 Red Eagle power pack.
45 $298.00
Extreme Duty Torque Drive Package hardened input shaft and new input drum, beast reaction shell, new low reverse sprag hardened input gear trimmed w/thrust bearing to replace thrust washer.
11 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,000
Likes: 134
After years of using as many plates as will fit (Borg Warner High Energy friction plates or more recently some-times Raybestos GPS friction plates) in an OEM drum with great success... I now have even better results (Of Course) with:
The use of the Sonnax drum with one or two additional frictions. Which has been amazing!
Lastly using the 4L79E drum with THM350 Raybestos Stage 1 friction plates has made me so happy to build the THM700-R4 and 4L60E/ 65E/ 70E/ 75E units again.
Years ago when the THM700-R4 units were more popular... I would steer people towards a THM200-4R unit instead.
I personally much prefer the THM200-4R with upgraded hard parts over the THM700-R4.
If the THM200-4R was not more expensive to produce than the THM700-R4, I believe we would have an electronic version today and not the 4L60E based units.
I mean look what went into the THM700-R4/ 4L60E and 4L80E units from the THM200-4R in terms of parts design!
The use of the Sonnax drum with one or two additional frictions. Which has been amazing!
Lastly using the 4L79E drum with THM350 Raybestos Stage 1 friction plates has made me so happy to build the THM700-R4 and 4L60E/ 65E/ 70E/ 75E units again.
Years ago when the THM700-R4 units were more popular... I would steer people towards a THM200-4R unit instead.
I personally much prefer the THM200-4R with upgraded hard parts over the THM700-R4.
If the THM200-4R was not more expensive to produce than the THM700-R4, I believe we would have an electronic version today and not the 4L60E based units.
I mean look what went into the THM700-R4/ 4L60E and 4L80E units from the THM200-4R in terms of parts design!
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,913
Likes: 366
From: White Bear, Mn
Or if there is like a complete kit I could buy that would be the easiest lol. Asked around on some swedish forums and got a recipe from 2008 that ppl keep talking about, long post sorry but what do you think? btw dunno why the text got so dark but if you mark it its easier to read lol
.
.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...e-rebuild.html
It goes over quite a bit. Clutches, clearances, tolerances, planetary gears, tips, tricks ect.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
As stated by MaroonMonsterLS1 in post #2. Here is one of the threads he was talking about.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...e-rebuild.html
It goes over quite a bit. Clutches, clearances, tolerances, planetary gears, tips, tricks ect.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...e-rebuild.html
It goes over quite a bit. Clutches, clearances, tolerances, planetary gears, tips, tricks ect.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
Likes: 1,390
From: Nitro Alley
Or if there is like a complete kit I could buy that would be the easiest lol. Asked around on some swedish forums and got a recipe from 2008 that ppl keep talking about, long post sorry but what do you think? btw dunno why the text got so dark but if you mark it its easier to read lol
From Transmission Parts USA:
35764CK $21.79
13 Vane Pump Upgrade 2 heavy duty vane rings, 13 slot rotor guide, 13 slot rotor, 13 vanes
From Bulk Part
A74654A $16.43
Sprag low/reverse wide
A74658B $41.85
Sprag forward 29 element dual cage
74200 $12.61
Thrust Washer Kit
74201A $16.45
Bearing Kit
T74167 $25.38
TransGo Shift Kit Jr. (at least this, if not a full blown shift kit)
A74584C $67.50
5 Pinion Rear Planetary
D74582B $164.66
5 Pinion Front Planetary
A74905BAK $16.90
Servo Kit & Boost Sleeve Corvette servo, new 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator pistons, and new TV boost valve and sleeve
T54450A $9.30
Adjustable detent cable (TV cable) 700R4
A74536K $0.43
Pump Slide Spring Kit
Transmission Center
11CF $19.00
Alto Carbon Fiber 2-4 Band
14-2 $205.00
Alto Red Eagle Master Rebuild Kit gasket and seal kit, metal clad seals, ring kit, all Red Eagle Performance clutches, all high performance kolene steels, high performance 3-4 Red Eagle power pack.
45 $298.00
Extreme Duty Torque Drive Package hardened input shaft and new input drum, beast reaction shell, new low reverse sprag hardened input gear trimmed w/thrust bearing to replace thrust washer.
From Transmission Parts USA:
35764CK $21.79
13 Vane Pump Upgrade 2 heavy duty vane rings, 13 slot rotor guide, 13 slot rotor, 13 vanes
From Bulk Part
A74654A $16.43
Sprag low/reverse wide
A74658B $41.85
Sprag forward 29 element dual cage
74200 $12.61
Thrust Washer Kit
74201A $16.45
Bearing Kit
T74167 $25.38
TransGo Shift Kit Jr. (at least this, if not a full blown shift kit)
A74584C $67.50
5 Pinion Rear Planetary
D74582B $164.66
5 Pinion Front Planetary
A74905BAK $16.90
Servo Kit & Boost Sleeve Corvette servo, new 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator pistons, and new TV boost valve and sleeve
T54450A $9.30
Adjustable detent cable (TV cable) 700R4
A74536K $0.43
Pump Slide Spring Kit
Transmission Center
11CF $19.00
Alto Carbon Fiber 2-4 Band
14-2 $205.00
Alto Red Eagle Master Rebuild Kit gasket and seal kit, metal clad seals, ring kit, all Red Eagle Performance clutches, all high performance kolene steels, high performance 3-4 Red Eagle power pack.
45 $298.00
Extreme Duty Torque Drive Package hardened input shaft and new input drum, beast reaction shell, new low reverse sprag hardened input gear trimmed w/thrust bearing to replace thrust washer.
-A74584C $67.50
5 Pinion Rear Planetary
-D74582B $164.66
5 Pinion Front Planetary
Keep the 4 pinion planets that you have.
-T54450A $9.30
Adjustable detent cable (TV cable) 700R4
This is only for units from 1982 to 1992 that were not electronic, you have an electronic unit and can not use this.
-14-2 $205.00
Alto Red Eagle Master Rebuild Kit gasket and seal kit, metal clad seals, ring kit, all Red Eagle Performance clutches, all high performance kolene steels, high performance 3-4 Red Eagle power pack.
Alto clutch plates and Kolene steels are a waste of money; and in the 3-4 clutch assembly, they are inferior. Obtain an OEM clutch set using Borg Warner High Energy 3-4 clutch frictions.
-45 $298.00
Extreme Duty Torque Drive Package hardened input shaft and new input drum, beast reaction shell.
Do not buy any kit produced by PATC... Sorry they are idiots. Do not buy the input shafts that they heat/ cryo. The beast reaction shell is okay... purchasing a new GM heat treated shell would be better or one from Sonnax (however this is an unnecessary expense in your case).
You can purchase an improved input shaft from several places (or Sonnax). However in your case not necessary.
If your trans builder is competent, there should be no reason for YOU to do the parts shopping. If you and a buddy are going to give a whirl, then by all means, listen to the great advice you've gotten here and study up. There's a lot of little things that if done just slightly wrong will wreak havoc on your build.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,614
Likes: 1,326
From: Iowa
if you want a complete shopping list...just talk to @PBA and order a rebuild kit for him. It will have a custom tailored parts list and good instructions for building.
Otherwise...learn to read greek and go through those threads and gather the info you need. Nobody else here should be expected to comb through those threads and spoon feed you a list because you're not willing to do the legwork.
Otherwise...learn to read greek and go through those threads and gather the info you need. Nobody else here should be expected to comb through those threads and spoon feed you a list because you're not willing to do the legwork.