Could you please explain what "benefit" was expected? A softer, "unnoticeable" downshift? Certainly not something most members here care about.

VERY interesting! And yes it is basically the same as your modified circuits with the 3-2 Control valve blocked.
The trans in my '81 Camaro was a brand new 2009 model. Since it was incompatible with the 411 PCM I had then, I switched to a 2006 valve body. How that I have the Dominator ECM, perhaps I will switch back to the 2009 valve body; hadn't thought of that until reading your post.

 

FYI the 2009 was compatible with the 0411
You could just wire in a resistor the the 3-2 control solenoid leads and be done.
Or, turn off codes to no error reported and that's it.

The 0411 isn't sophisticated enough to do much more than check for slip and circuit faults.

 

This circuit is a very simple electrical circuit... not some complex electronic circuit.
The circuit should have an impedance near 25 ohms... everything will show normal.

The 3-2 Control-Valve solenoid will vary in impedance and will vary further depending on temperature.
If the circuit shows a range of 20 to 30 Ohms... that is good enough,

I do not however know how a controller intended for the circuits of the Internal Mode Switch are going to work with the circuits for the pressure manifold switch...
regarding controllers originally produced for the Internal Mode Switch based transmissions.

I have done absolutely no experimentation in regard to this.

 

I now know how to fool a PCM with the missing 3-2 downshift solenoid, but back then I knew nothing about transmissions.
Also, as you can see in this picture, the pre-2009 and 2009+ transmission side connectors have very different pinout - heck a whole row of pins moved over.



Perhaps I should start a new thread on how to make a 2009+ work with older PCMs ?

 

The image above shows One of the Pinouts for the 4L70E style Case-Connector.
Your photo shows the other depending one which controller was used to control the transmission.

 

Are you saying there are two DIFFERENT pinouts for the 4L70E ? Is that to give us even more incompatible versions of this trans?

 

Yes unfortunately.

The connector with the Blue-Colored Body in your image is 1 version of the Pinout (this version has the terminals arranged significantly differently than the 4L60E).
The 2nd version is shown in the image that I posted (the Pinout diagram).

Between OEM PCMs that combine engine and transmission, OEM TCMs that are ONLY for the Transmission, and the "over the parts counter" Transmission and Controller Combo-Kits...
There are two different Pinout versions.

 

Awesome information fellas. @vorteciroc if you make another thread expanding on this info please post a link in this thread to reference

 

Had a "slight" parts issue that set me back but we got it figured out. Not a big deal

Got the rest of the lower portion of the input drum assembled. Again, I didnt take pic by pic of it because its procedure. I did assemble the stacks without the sprag assembly first to check clearance. Once I got what I wanted, I took all back out, then install the hub and assembled for good. I ended the forward stack with .050" approx. I then air checked the overrun and forward piston and both popped and applied great again. The forward snap ring is no joke! For the record, there are diff thickness top plates to achieve certain clearances. I have the "C" plate for my setup. Depending on your clutch and/or steel setup might require diff top plate to achieve proper clearance.

g

To start the stack of the 3/4 in the 4L79 drum, start with the custom apply plate



Then start your stack up as procedure



Ending with a steel per 4L79 instructions. Yes this is completely left of normal procedure but this isnt a normal setup. The final steel puts the rotational forces into the input housing and not the cap. The billet cap takes strictly upward forces



Next are the custom 4L79 load release springs. Slide them in, then start the thread the cap on. MAKE SURE YOU USE ATF TO LUBE THE THREADS ON THE CAP. Threading this cap dry is a death sentence as the fine threads will easily gall. Mason at 4L79 is a GREAT dude, but dont put him in a situation of negligence. Dip your finger in ATF and apply on the threads around the cap. It works wonders and it glides on very well. As the cap goes on, it will get into the springs then hang up as the set screw holes come around. Take your preferred tool go around to each hole and push each spring under the cap for each hole, then the cap will continue to turn. It will again hang up once it reaches the holes again. Repeat until the cap gets down and tightens up then line the holes up with the reliefs cut in the drum for the set screws. Install the set screws with a dap of red loctite to 35 inch pounds in a star pattern. Make sure to air check not only for piston apply but for clearance. Mason wants to see .030 - .040" clearance. I came up with .040" clearance with my setup which I am fine with. This car will see at least 50% possibly more cruising so keeping it a little loose will keep them from dragging as the frictions are wider than normal 3/4 frictions. I will note, it is kind of weird when air checking the 3/4 pack as the steel contact with the cap throws me off. But you can tell this stack up is a different animal than the normal 3/4 stack. Pretty cool




Installed the solid PTFE rings on the pump stator and input shaft and chilling out resizing



Then got them stacked up on the bench to do an initial air check. This went well as the overruns, forwards, and 3/4 clutches all popped and applied very well as an assy. The holes to check are from left to right:

The one between the two large holes is reverse, hole right of the second large hole is 3/4, and farthest right hole is forward. Use about 40-50 lbs of air psi. If they wont apply with that much pressure you have an issue. If you use a ton of pressure you will have a couple issues. One you can push a piston past what it can handle or two get a false reading by one having a leak but having more pressure than needed and it will apply it but still have a leak.




Installing the reverse drum on the input drum as well as dropping the input drum into the case and spline with the carrier ring gear, I take a pick and align the clutches in line. This helps with getting the clutches splined up and drop in easier. You still have the shimmy and shake a little to get set in but to me this helps.



For the record, bearing installed




I will say, the 4L79 clutches are a little tight shimmying down the carrier ring gear even when you line them up. Takes a little patience and they will go. Applying a little ATF on the ring gear helps with this as well as the residual from the soaking of the clutches. When all the clutches are splined you will feel a difference on how the drum feels. Another tip is to make sure the top of the reverse drum is below the pump gasket surface.




I initially started with a "70" shim under the bearing in the input drum just to see where I am at for end play. My goal for this setup is minimal end play for .005 - .015". Installed the pump WITHOUT the gasket just to see where I was at and torqued the bolts and measured. I was at .010 end play. Adding the gasket will def tighten that up past what we want. I initially got confused regarding the various shims you can use. Going bigger in the numbers in the shims will give you more clearance and the lower the number will tighten clearance. That said, I have a 70 in it, im going to try a 72 and I hope to get where I need to be.

 

In regard to the 4L79 Input-Drum...

You want to end the Clutch stack with a Steel-Plate on top, so that a Friction-Plate does not wear against the Screw-On Cap.
Otherwise the Screw-On Cap would probably need to get replaced with the Frictions and Steel during the next rebuild.

 

"I initially started with a "70" shim under the bearing in the input drum just to see where I am at for end play. My goal for this setup is minimal end play for .005 - .015". Installed the pump WITHOUT the gasket just to see where I was at and torqued the bolts and measured. I was at .010 end play. Adding the gasket will def tighten that up past what we want. Adding the pump gasket will increase endplay. Usually by .015 roughly. So if you have .010 without the gasket, you will have .025 once you add the gasket. I initially got confused regarding the various shims you can use. Going bigger in the numbers in the shims will give you more clearance and the lower the number will tighten clearance. Higher number means thicker washer which means tighter endplay. That said, I have a 70 in it, im going to try a 72 and I hope to get where I need to be."

If you have .010 endplay with NO pump gasket and a #70 washer...
Then you will have .025 endplay with a #70 washer AND the gasket installed
So, you will need to go up to a #71 or #72 washer...they are thicker than the #70...and the thicker washer will help take up the gap...bringing the total endplay back down to around .010

 

"Ending with a steel per 4L79 instructions. Yes this is completely left of normal procedure but this isnt a normal setup. The final steel puts the rotational forces into the input housing and not the cap. The billet cap takes strictly upward forces"
He said this between his photos vortec
Ending with a steel is a must

 

Thanks for cleaning this up for me. My mistake.

Like we talked, I have a 72 in it now and I planned to set my band clearance first before installing the pump back in. But as you suggested to install the pump first and get your end play clearance set then set the servo pin travel. Having the pump in will center the drum and prevent from having a slight false reading due to the input drum rocking back and forth when applying and releasing the band. Thanks for that tip also!

 

I havnt had the chance to get back on this yet. The unit I built that I mentioned previously in the thread we finally got to take it for a drive last night. Shifted well, felt nice up and down, lock up ect. Pretty excited for that.

 

Been working on a few other projects lately but I finally got back on this for a bit. I did get the final end play about where I wanted it. The 71 washer did the trick and got me to approx. .015" final end play.





Next was working on servo travel and a .060" target. Removed all the seals on the pistons as well as the PTFE seals on the pin. I used Kent More tool J-33037 to get me in the ball park to start measuring with a dial. Basically I used it to get closer to the line then go the dial out to see where I was at. I got it down to .040" travel, then took a little more material off and hit the .060" on the nose.






Since the travel is set and im ready to install the servo assy for good, I ran the 4th apply cover over my buffer and give it some pop. I know, I know you will never see it. But if you seen the car you will know this fits the build.



This is where I had to stop. Im in the down home stretch now. I will be overhauling a differential in a buddies car this week so we'll see if I can get this project knocked in the head as well.

 

Got the servo lubed up, installed, and the snap ring set in the groove. Then air checked 2nd and 4th apply

2nd feed hole



4th feed hole



And exhaust if anyone wants to know (or didnt know for that matter)



Everything checked well.

Now to start laying out the gaskets and separator plate. With the gaskets laid in place you can get a better visual of the #2 third accumulator hole blocked. Will be leaving this check ball out.



As well as the #6 overrun check ball here



And also #1 4th accumulator check ball here



I also like to include the Sonnax 77980-01K wiring harness connector retainer to my builds. Had a situation awhile ago where an LS swap was done on a car that didnt have much room to work with in the trans tunnel and when the harness connector was pressed on the connector that goes through the case it was pushed in not knowing as it had to be done blind. Next day the shop floor was covered in trans oil then we had to drop the pan to push the connector back up. I just think its a nice little piece and can prevent a further issue.



Having a new harness the wiring is a little stiff and I wanted to clean it up.



I did end up installing the seal retainer also. I was on the fence of installing this because really its kind of useless but I also felt weird not installing it haha So I glued it on



Pretty much wrapping this up soon.........

 

What is the reason for blocking the #2 third accumulator check ball hole?

 

This was discussed some earlier in the thread by MaroonMonster and myself.
If you look at post #136... you can see my simplified hydraulic diagram for a 2-3 shift.
Removing the #2 Check-Ball is not necessary (but I like it, for finer control of Band Timing) and is a Pain to tune.

This is a Modification that I have been doing all the way back to the THM700-R4...
TransGo (at least used to) instructions for a the THM700-R4 have the re-builder do this.

There is no need to do this... and it makes sizing the Band-Release orifice critical (often having to start smaller and increase size a few times; dropping the valve-body).

I personally like the control it gives me over the 3rd Accumulator Circuit (band apply and release timing).
But like I said it can be a Pain in the *** modification to tune.

 

2BFast,

Make sure that the Plug installed into the Separator-Plate get filed-down flush and smooth with the surface of the plate (both sides).

 

Thanks vorteciroc for the explanation. I remember reading that now and decided not to because of you saying it was hard to tune.