Hi guys been following an reading these forums an builds for quite a while. They got me threw my rebuild with out hesitation but I made a mistake somewhere an back tracking through my old parts I found my new sonnax heavy duty 2-3 shift valve , the trans works great , besides the fact I don't have manual first gear, I checked linkage adjustment. It's spot on. Clicks in every gear park - 1st , if I put the trans in d it starts in first and shifts all the way up with out a problem. But no manual first,

I drilled the hole in the valve body an left out #6 check ball per instructions for the sonnax hd 2-3 shift valve but working late nights I accidentally put the oem shift valve in , by any chance would that effect manual first gear? I'd greatly appreciate any help 🙏

 

It should not affect manual 1 as far as going into 1st , It might dump the overun oil which would affect braking in M1 . But should still be in 1st just with no braking.
Check that you are getting first commanded as the MANIFOLD PRESSURE SWITCH could be damaged , non functional or missing orring which would cause no manual first as the PCM would not know it was in M1
Stock no fluid no fluid flow to the 1-2 valve that would force it to first exsist. Thus the reason without a tuning change or TG valve it can still upshift to 2nd and is limited on what speed it can manual downshift to 1st.

 

While on mods pertaining to the bushings/bearings is the sonnax extra wide sun gear better for longevity than doubling the stock bearings? Plus any locktite recomended to hold in place? Are there certain brands of bearings that work better than others for longevity, abuse. Are durabond, sonnax worth the extra cost unless going all out stage 3 on up? With the all the support being on the bearings, thrust washers and bushings keeping things aligned has to be important with this transmission.

 

Most important are bushings as far as brands here nor there from my experience. I replace all but check them also many times they are still tight.
I use the dual bushings in the sun gear but again preference .
Bearings you can check many times they are fine but also cheap enough to replace.
The biggest risk with sitting is moisture getting inside and potentially rush or delamination. Als no idea how in depth the previous build was.
No Locktite in bushings.

 

bump up so i can find lol

 

Just a note, I have on several occasions mentioned that the reinforcement sonnax collars for the input drum were too loose lately. Well yesterday I had the opposite . Never seen one so tight going on but it went . Good thing I support center of drum when installing , I have no doubt if not it would have broken the drum.
My thoughts on the collar are still iffy on wither it really does much as I have seen the spline area still busted up even with the collar and seen none collared units making 800 plus rwhp no issues.
But because it is and accepted standard on high end builds I use them in my stage 3 and stage max editions. But I have noted of late with them the fit is all over the place, Used to be they were all tight going on . Not extreme like the one yesterday. But tight, The last couple years I have noted they range from firm to damn near slip on with your hand. Guess quality manufacturing variance. Much like bushings . You get some a bit to tights and some looser than the old one (have had to removed and put another in several time of late over being loose and use a hone other times to size up this all with the same name brand bushings.
Quality control is certainly not what it used to be.
Even got a reman rev drum recently from a well known vendor (not mentioning names) but it was turned down to the point applied the band all but collided with itself. Of course I didn't use it, Knowing the band will stretch a bit .
Just a little rant , Now days you do really have to check and double check even new and reman parts. Was a time for the most part you could assume would be right. Today that is no longer true.
Examples I had a sonnax dual OD servo missing internal oring . That drum I mentioned and just yesterday a front sungear bushing from same set one was to loose the other perfect. Then a couple weeks ago a Raybestos pro wide band that was not properly laminated. Looked fine but being old school I do the transgo thing of bending them backwards till near flat and boom off came the lining .
So just letting everyone know, Check and double check all.
Not really a tech post but more advisory .

 

I think it's much more likely the drums are varying rather than the collars.
Have you used proper bore gauge or telescope gauge with micrometer to measure the collars?

 

No I have not. but do have one and should. I just assumed really "I KNOW" That being a new issue of late I had not seen before , it was likely the collars. But I will start measuring them and see. BTW good to see ya , I get lonely on LS1TECH sometimes lol.

 

Decreased (by hammering) 2nd feed to 0.063 and achieved smooth 1-2 change BUT flare at 3-2
Both 3-2 blocked 2nd and 4th sonnax superservo alro red wide band
With 0.092 2nd feed 3-2 was perfect but 1-2 always bumpy
Looks like 2nd feed cant restore oil volume inside 2nd servo piston fast
Will it help no unblock 3-2 shifter ?
And you're mentioned that you always do 3th feed to 0.100
And 3-2(#13) also 0.100 ? I found that if I match em I achieve 3-2 flare too (3-4 releases to quick)
For now I have 0.110 band release and 0.082 3-2
Now I wanna test reroute 3th passage to servo add accumulator from 3-4 by additional pipe (and block passage from 4th of course)
I kinda tired fight with 2-3 bumpy shift
I tried to use torque management but P59 7603 has a bug that at light to medium throttle reduction time become 2-3 seconds nevertheless what time in table
Only WOT works as should (not only mine problem -there is a thread at HP tuners about 7603)

 

Decreased (by hammering) 2nd feed to 0.063 and achieved smooth 1-2 change BUT flare at 3-2 -IMO too small .083 is smallest I go

Both 3-2 blocked 2nd and 4th sonnax superservo alro red wide band - I do not block the 3-2 as the PCM can help correct thing like flare and 3-2 down shift and or 2-3 up bumps and binds.

With 0.092 2nd feed 3-2 was perfect but 1-2 always bumpy-In this case , I would have either put a stiffer spring in the 1-2 acum or a weaker spring in the VB accum valve.

Looks like 2nd feed cant restore oil volume inside 2nd servo piston fast- The accums vb and main 1-2 are out of the picture on the downshift . The 2nd feed is your only meter so very small hole its just not making it back on before the 3-4 clutch release.

Will it help no unblock 3-2 shifter ? -Some would disagree but yes I would.

And you're mentioned that you always do 3th feed to 0.100 -If I did it was a typo or brain fart, please post number of post I will correct .The only time I would us a band release (3-2) hole that size is when using the superior pancake style servo as with no size differential front to back the release spring and 3rd oil are are the total of the release. With all other servos stock or whatever the size down in from the apply is used, Of course this only applies to the vet or sonnax servo, I don't use any of the other stock servo setups. I do however alway make the 2-3 .100 .

And 3-2(#13) also 0.100 ? I found that if I match em I achieve 3-2 flare too (3-4 releases to quick) -As stated above I only match with the superior servo. With all others the release side (acum ) should be smaller that apply or you will get a flair . In particular with the 3-2 valve blocked which again I do not do.

For now I have 0.110 band release and 0.082 3-2 -This would not work well IMO

Now I wanna test reroute 3th passage to servo add accumulator from 3-4 by additional pipe (and block passage from 4th of course)
I kinda tired fight with 2-3 bumpy shift - Interesting but I think you can do more with hole sizes and unblocking the 3-2 valve

I think your best answer is here "With 0.092 2nd feed 3-2 was perfect but 1-2 always bumpy-In this case , I would have either put a stiffer spring in the 1-2 acum or a weaker spring in the VB accum valve."
^^^^^^^^^

HOPE THIS HELPS

 

here lately I've been getting wide bands that have the lug hole punched out funky. So funky that it keeps the band from locating itself into the pin hole like it should. So every case I put a light countersink on the pin hole. If I don't, the band drags the drum enough to burn it up in that area. Before I caught this, one of my trans went out to someone and now its back almost two years later and I can see where it was rubbing. it rubbed it to the metal. And the reason its back is not because of that, the sprag rolled. Yes it has a HD dual metal cage sprag. I think it rolled the sprag from too many punch it to the floor downshifts in a built motor trans am. I need to look at the tune too. Someone else messed with the tune after I did it, I suspect they deleted tq management.

 

Ran into this a few years ago. Used same solution. On sprag I would suggest consider my OVERUN MOD.

 

is it listed in this thread somewhere? I’d be willing to try it out

 

[QUOTE=FranksCustomTrans;20612890]
I do not block the 3-2 as the PCM can help correct thing like flare and 3-2 down shift and or 2-3 up bumps and binds. I blocked because it was suggested as solution to good and fast 3-2 shift (I had bumpy 3-2 with slight overrev) and to help 3rd feed not to loose oil at 3-2 solenoid shifter (and because 07 up eliminated 3-2 solenoid either) - And for me It looks like 3-2 solenoid must not affect 2-3 shift at all due to much bigger area of unseated #2 checkball that overcome any orifice in that feed line

With 0.092 2nd feed 3-2 was perfect but 1-2 always bumpy-In this case , I would have either put a stiffer spring in the 1-2 acum or a weaker spring in the VB accum valve.Got it -and I found that torque reduction helps a lot when it works as should - my plan was to reduce torque all the way from 10 to 100% of throttle but I found a bug that if you use torque reduction at small % of accelerator you will achieve abnormal superlong reduction but works perfect over 50-60%

The 2nd feed is your only meter so very small hole its just not making it back on before the 3-4 clutch release. I understood it clear -that's why I wanna test it with 3-2 shifter unblocked back (because its looks like it can pass 2nd orifice for small amount of time when 3rh feed pressure drops not enough to let spring close 3-2 shifter, and 3-2 shifter can't leak to pan 3rd feed because it only can add 2nd feed oil to 3rd)

And you're mentioned that you always do 3th feed to 0.100 -If I did it was a typo or brain fart, please post number of post I will correct .The only time I would us a band release (3-2) hole that size is when using the superior pancake style servo as with no size differential front to back the release spring and 3rd oil are are the total of the release. With all other servos stock or whatever the size down in from the apply is used, Of course this only applies to the vet or sonnax servo, I don't use any of the other stock servo setups. I do however alway make the 2-3 .100 . It looks like misunderstanding a little, I use "3rd feed"(as many do) - you name it "2-3"(if I understood you correct) - so I mean orifice #28

And 3-2(#13) also 0.100 ? I found that if I match em I achieve 3-2 flare too (3-4 releases to quick) -As stated above I only match with the superior servo. With all others the release side (acum ) - should be smaller - its confusing a little bit cause release accum (u mean 2nd servo piston that acts with 2nd feed as somehow accum -right ?) for me will be "band release #12 " but you named so #13 that all here called 3-2

For now I have 0.110 band release and 0.082 3-2 -This would not work well IMO - It worked good with 0.092 2nd feed-and flares with 0.063

Now I wanna test reroute 3th passage to servo add accumulator from 3-4 by additional pipe (and block passage from 4th of course)
I kinda tired fight with 2-3 bumpy shift - Interesting but I think you can do more with hole sizes and unblocking the 3-2 valve -the thing that 2-3 accum not exist as separate unit and GM use 2nd oil as counterforce to 3rd feed oil that pushes back servo pin disturbing me cause so many thing can unbalance this solution (like I used bigger checkball and hole to it because threw away repair sleeve to #8 checkball and used 5/16 instead 1/4 - and bigger hole affects to speed of band release either)
I mean that for make progression in pressure increase like it works in 1-2 accum you need somehow to make contact between 2nd cushion and case to compress big stiff spring under it
But when you compress it -you loose force that can be used to hold band better

I also recheck today 2nd and 4th superservo stack and found that if I add washer between pin and cushion to slide 2nd piston back I will loose compression of big spring under cushion and it already loose because we all make band clearance much less than GM did and spring not compressed so much
For me it looks like we can throw away cushion and big spring (and use slightly longer little spring) and reroute 3-4 accum to work with that area to let 3-4 accum soften 2-3 shift
Its doable and not difficult to reroute oil inside VB
I rebuild a lot of RE4R03A(JR403) and it has separated 2-3 accum and with 2-3 feed drilled to 0.120 it shifts smooth but fast (so smooth that my first impression -I did nothing and maybe I drilled wrong orifice)
I checked valve signals by led lights and before it was 1-1.5 sec before 3-4 pack grab strong and with 0.120 it becomes 0.3-0.5 sec delay between signal and actual shifting

And about 2-3 feed(#28) and 3-2 drain(#13) - a lot people here wrote that they should match
I checked by myself that they don't (or 3-2 flare occurs) and you agreed
But what if I will block #4 checkball and use #13 orifice as 2-3 also ? (and of course eliminate #28 drilling it to 0.250 or bigger)
This will eliminate half of leakages at least
RE4 as I mentioned has 2-3 and 3-2 orifices near each other right before clutch and servo and all shifters that involved to gears change -work with unrestricted flow and any leakage not affects at all to 3-4 clutch pressure
It looks like I must check it too with 3-4 accum as 2-3

Damn I just wanted rebuild my tranny (first planet carrier thrust bearing grenaded itself -now I wanna use 07Up bearing) -and start to read about lube modifications
And here we go again -proceed tuning this tranny because found this thread !

Are you enlarging notches at PR valve to make more lube to converter (and cooler and lube planets) ? wanna do this but dont know how much I can grind without hurting pressure

 

Yes I will try and find it later this eve , it is an easy mod totally done with plate and gasket

 

note the bathtube ball area . block both of those holes. then see where overun ball goes, Connest that to the fwd by cutting gasket as shown. omitt bathtub ***** , You can omit the overun ball too makes no difference.

 

I will have to come back to yours tomorrow. my old eyes are such i have to separate each paragraph far enough to take and answer individually.

 

Here it is.... Maybe a mod could add this thread to the stickies??? @RPM WS6
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...ain-4l60e.html

 

Thanks This thread got way way bigger than i had originally thought ,

 

This is a crime for 4l60e
TQ management is huge improvement
I achieved smooth 1-2 with 90% of reduction
Only problem 2-3 torque reduction is too late for fast shifting tranny ) and HP tuners dont have a map to move reduction more early (so now its bumps -drops and bamps again because torque restored)
Thankfully Tuner PRO have it
Will proceed after put tranny back