So, I'm doing a 4L80 for a turbo project with no trans brake (700-800 WHP). I Already rollerized output and set the end play. Now, moving forward to Center support and direct drum. More I read, get more confused as there are just too many different opinions out there. Here are few things I need to clarify:

- Intermediate spring retainer: Instructions wants you to use the thicker retainer (good) but only 6 springs out of 12. I did this, but not sure how every one else using all 12 springs in this place. How exactly this mod will affect transmission behavior?
- Direct/forward drum: removing inner lip seal in the drum and second seal on center support, drill 1/16 hole in the drum, sure, I did that. He also instructed to get rid of both cushion (wave) plates in both direct/forward setup and add extra plate/friction. Very different opinion on this! this will be %100 street car. I don't want harsh engagement or anything weird. I need some input from whoever did this and how it works when installed, please.
- Direct drum springs/piston: While I see most folks use stiffer springs here, kit didn't come with any springs for this area. Also no indication if an aluminum piston is needed/preferred.
- Plug in reverse passage: Part of dual feeding, but it says when using a stock separator plate the 3/8 cup plug must be installed there and cup seal on the opposite side. Kit includes recalibration kit which has Jake's separator plate. Do I still need to install these cup seal and plug or the new separator plate will be enough?
Many thanks.

 

Im not familiar enough with Jakes kit to give alot of advise. Personally I would keep the wave in the forward , But eliminate it in the direct. But thats me , With no brake the stock spring set up should be fine for the directs unless you are going very high RPM by high I MEAN WELL IN EXCESS OF 6000 RPM.
Beyond that I will leave it to JAKE he does seem to monitor this forum and I am sure will note and Chime in when he sees it,

 

Jake's a busy guy so it may be a lil while before he sees this. The best thing to do is to call the shop or email them and Mike will help you out.

 

I just emailed him. But I'd like to hear opinions as much as possible. I just don't want harsh engagement in drive way shifting from P to D.

 

You can leave the cushion plates in the forward if you desire, but I would use a TH400 plate and not the 4L80E part.
It's only needed if you are running a very tight torque converter.

As the instructions state, if you are using a stock plate, install the cup plugs, if using our plate, you do not need to, because we block it in the plate.

 

I personally left all of my wave plates out with my jakes kit just like he says but I also have a 3800 stall which helps a lot with harshness during engagement. If you are not going to run a bigger stall then maybe consider the wave at least in the forward. I left the springs out like he said in the intermediate as well. I spin mine to 6800 rpms but not many times so far since I got the car running. Maybe 10-15 times so far so kind of curious to see if that may end up being a problem in the future. I’m running the recal kit from jakes and you do not need to plug the reverse hole if you are using the recal kit but up to you if you still want to plug the hole

 

An aftermarket stall converter will help with shift harshness.

I haven't actually driven the builds that I've done for others with no transbrake but I've received no complaints on shift harshness with the 3-4 accumulator deleted and separator plate holes on a stock plate drilled to:

1-2: 0.090"
2-3: 0.120"
3-4: 0.090"

All those cars have aftermarket stall converters, 3400-4000

I run jakes D3 transbrake so take that into account but here's what I run on my own car.

Intermediate - I run 12 TH400 springs with the beefy TH400 spring retainer. I use a billet int pressure plate and A727 thick snap ring. I run an early 4L80E int piston and an intermediate 34125 early 4L80E wave. Early piston needed to run the early wave. I spin to 7000 rpm and I use a BTE aluminum 36 direct drum. My 1-2 shift is not harsh (nor are any of the other shifts), but I do run a 3600 stall which helps.

Int stack is as follows
2x, .076" steels
1x, .100" steel
4x, .078" smooth raybestos Ford C6 frictions, B36106E which fit on the outer race of the BTE 36 aluminum drum

Direct:
6 friction BW high energy, raybestos steels. No wave. Using 5 frictions only would have been plenty.

6x .080" frictions
2x .060" steels
4x .077" steels
TH400 early aluminum piston with 0.060" milled off of it to get proper clearance with a 6 friction stack.
Clutch pack clearance 0.060" in the direct
16 of the stronger springs that Jakes and EA sells. TH400 spring retainer

Forward
I run a wave plate, the thicker 0.060" part number 34126B
National Seal Rubber Late 4L80E piston
5x 0.080" frictions
3x 0.090" steels
2x 0.077" steels

0.050" forward clutch pack clearance

I didn't drill the hole sizes on the jakes D3 transbrake separator plate any larger.

 

I've not decided on converter yet. It has stage 1 turbo, 6.0,3.54 rear end and a hybrid S476 1.25 AR with 83mm turbine. Strictly street car. will be happy to see 750 RWHP. Cam manufacturer (Summit) recommends 2500 stall, but also said will work with stock converter. Now, I'll need to get back to Jake to get a converter anyway once I finished putting this together as the stock one I have doesn't even fit. Personally I don't like loose converters, but I have to get some higher stall anyway. Thanks for your reply.

 

I run a 2800 stall in my own car . It is very streetable no slippy feel. mostly like stock even with 3.08 gears. similar set up should work great in yours IMO but nice WOT launch lights the tires up easily. If you plan to lock converter for any reason at WOT get a triple disc. I lock mine about 4000 RPM as I got 30flb more torque with it locked 4000 up , Mines and FTI pretty happy with it, I did raise PT shift points 20 percent, As jake mentioned in your application I would run the 400 waves fwd and leave out of direct with the twin chamber feed rev would not be overly agressive in fact ussually its slightly delayed.

 

Now I'm focusing on what needs to be done on pump and VB.
Pump: Installingprovided PR spring in Jake's kit, drilling the line to lube passage, pump gear clearance and typical bushing/seal etc. I'd like to swap end plugs to O ringed version as many as possible, otherwise I can't think of anything else. There are few more valves in the pump, those don't need attention? What else you guys do beside these...

Valve body:
- Will do AFL repair with 48-ACT-TL most likely. Is Sonnax kit better than this? Sonnax reamer tool itself is like $400, too much for 1-2 time use, unless Sonnax AFL kit is proven to be better.
- Transgo TCC regulator valve 4L80E-TCC or Sonnax 34994-01K both with 2 springs to chose from. any advise on this?
Other than TCC and AFL, Sonnax has some "check ball sleeve" kits, AFL o ring end plug and some other stuff. Do I need any of these?

Many thanks.

 

1. The transgo 48-ACT-TL is much more affordable than the sonnax kit, and you can most likely find one that's only been used once on the 4L80E facebook group. Comes with 6 valves. Or just buy new from rock auto and resell it.

2. You might be able to get away with just using an oversized TCC regulator valve. 4L80E-TCC. You can gamble buy just addressing the TCC and AFL (many have done this) or make a vac test kit and actually test each circuit and address as needed.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...alve-body.html

3. Yes, get some Sonnax O-ring end plugs. They come in packs of 5. Rockauto 34994-14K for the converter limit end plug and 34200-05K for the PR and TCC bores. Leave the other 0.50" dia plug on the other end of the TCC bore stock. I don't think the 34994-13 fits in some bores and I hardly ever hear of anyone replacing that one.

4. Get a pump wear plate from Jake.

5. You can use a stock PR VALVE and drill the line to lube, or you can buy Jakes machined PR valve and not drill the line to lube. Either way works.

6. Are you keeping the EPC functional or running fixed line pressure?

It is important to check the pump clearances using a straight edge and a feeler gauge. Pump gears typically need replaced. Proper gear to face clearance should be .0007 to .0028 Outer gear to pocket is .0015-.008 Inner gear to crescent is .002-.0075 for a brand new pump. .009-.012 here is OK
Look for scarring on the inner gear. Measure the outer gear to top of pocket and inner gear to top of pocket using a straight edge. .0025” or less here is good.

Enlarge the seal drain back hole in the pump cover with a 1/4" drill bit

 

1. Will do the AFL kit from transgo. Need to sit down and find one that somene used one sleeve and doesn't need it no more.
2. Moments ago (just before I saw this) I ordered a Sonnax TCC 34994-01K. Transgo 4L80E-TCC instruction says is a "drop in"? Is this considered oversized?I can return it and get a transgo instead if needed. Obviously stiffer spring in there?
3,4 will do (never heard of pump wear plate before)
5.Jake instruction says .093 lube/line hole with provided PR spring used with original bumper spring?
6. Not sure. No indication in instructions and I believe kit comes with a new one. Have no experience on this.

 

https://shop.jakesperformance.com/sh...80e-pump-plate

The Sonnax 34994-01K does the same thing
#5, yes as stated that option works

 

I took apart the pump today. Minor typical fine scratches. Face of cover to top of gears I was able to squeeze a .002 feeler blade. Outer gear to pocket like .0015. Can't tell If it can be reused or not. I'm thinking to get a reman cover with gears and have stator face resurfaced. Or, Just replace gears. I saw people run much worse than this. Where do you guys buy your hard parts from? A general auto machine shop can resurface the stator? Have no transmission shop around. Will post some pictures if that helps.

 

Can you feel the scratches with a finger nail? I've heard that one can take the surface of the stator down .005-.020. If you machine the surface of the pump cover you have to machine the pocket by the same amount. Your stator and pump cover doesn’t look bad. These days everyone I know that builds runs the pump plate in every build. Sonnax brand gears are what you want. I can't speak to the hard parts as the places I have purchased from are not sponsors on here.

 

Finger nails won't feel the scratches on any of critical areas. To what I see there, the cover which housed the gear can't be cut, as gears will stick out, but stator side might be ok to cut, unless it affect seals on input shaft. I don't know. correct me if I'm wrong. Here are more pictures. Jake said "I won't be terribly worried about it". Maybe I'm overthinking it.

 

I'd throw in a new set of sonnax gears since you have it open, put the pump plate in it, some sonnax o-ring end plugs, enlarge the drain hole, new pump cover seal, perform jakes instructions above, and send it.
Make sure the pump halves are lined up perfectly before you bolt them together using a ring clamp.

 

can you explain how those who run a plate compensate for thickness of plate? It’ll push pump cover and converter itself forward towards the engine by that much. I’d assume longer pump bolts and pump to case bolt needed as well?

 

The pump plate is only 0.047" thick. No worries there. OE pump to case bolts, OE pump half bolts are fine. All you have to do is make sure your converter clearance is correct. 1/8 - 3/16 from the converter pad to the flexplate. Use M10x1.5 flat washers as needed. Grab about 9 of these for a 3 bolt flexplate or 18 for a 6 bolt. Flexplate bolt hole mounting surface to the face of the block for an LS must also be correct 0.875”, and of course converter fully seated.

Flexplate and crank bolt length depend on which flexplate is used, thickness of the converter pads, if a crank spacer is used or not, and if a pilot extension is used or not. Just get some grade 10.9, 10x1.5x30 and M10x1.5x25 bolts and maybe M10x1.5x20 to have on hand from the local hardware store for the flexplate to converter. For the flexplate to crank bolts aftermarket options are:

ARP 244-2901 M11x1.5x22 (qty=6 to a pk) (Do not use these with 12563532 crank spacer, too short) qty= 1 part #ARP 2442901
M11x1.5x28 (qty=6 to a pk) - ICT Billet - Longer bolts when using 12563532 crank spacer qty=1 part #551951

Or source some standard 10.9 grade bolts

I'll post the steps for those curious about the process of converter install in an LS application, disregard if you are already up to speed on proper converter clearances.

Verify flexplate is not out of round. It should not be more than 0.020” out of round. If so, replace. Cheap flexplates will be out of round right out of the box.

Fill the converter with a quart of trans fluid

Push the converter into the transmission. Put a calibrated straight edge (something like an iGaging 12" Hardened Steel) across the bellhousing and measure from it to the face on one of the converter pads using a caliper or depth gage. You want this measurement to be 1.00” in – 1.200” in. If it is less, the converter is not installed all the way and will damage the pump. Ensure that the distance from the top of the converter mounting pads (where it mounts to the flex plate) is 1 - 1.20 inches from the face of the bellhousing.

Bolt the flexplate to the engine.

Measure from the flexplate bolt hole mounting surface to the face of the block by sticking a caliper through the bolt hole. Ideally this measurement will be 0.875”

Bolt the transmission with the converter fully seated into the block

Without putting any bolts in the flex plate to mount it to the converter, ensure that there is a minimum gap of 1/8, and no more than 3/16 of a gap between the converter bolt mounting holes and the face of the converter pads. Use drill bits to check. If that measurement clearance is good, you can then pull the converter to the flexplate and bolt it up. If that clearance is not 1/8 - 3/16 and more than 3/16, then you need to add spacers around the bolts until you get that clearance, and then pull the flexplate to the converter and bolt it up. If the clearance prior to bolting it up is less than 1/8, then the converter wasn't made to the correct specification and you need to contact the manufacturer.

Make sure that the pilot on the converter or the pilot extension on the converter is at least 0.125" in the engine. The depth of that hole is roughly 0.300", so just make sure it doesn't bottom out in the engine and that it has at least that 0.125 engagement. To get an initial idea, you can install the flywheel on the converter on the bench, and measure from the top of the pilot extension / pilot to the face of the flex plate using a depth gauge. Then subtract that measurement from the thickness of spacers that you use (assuming gap was greater than 3/16”
above) and that is how much pilot engagement there will be.

Make sure the bolts that mount the converter to the flexplate aren't so long that they make contact with the face of the block.

 

I did. Sonnax 34994-13 fit mine. Is a major pain to install it from inside the bore without damaging the O ring, but with some patience, it can be done.