4L60E - Who Does It Best? Who can prove it?
07-09-2005, 03:11 PM
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4L60E - Who Does It Best? Who can prove it? 4L60E - Who Does It Best? Who can prove it?
Having owned a 1997 Silverado since it was new, I have learned first hand many of the DONT'S when it comes to transmission repair. After making the terrible mistake of purchasing and installing a GM remanufactured (you can't buy new) transmission and having it rebuilt 3 times under warranty since it was first installed, it has become resoundingly CLEAR to me that Original Equipment is not the way to go - REGARDLESS OF WARRANTY!!
I would very much appreciate hearing from anyone else who has fought the same battle with the 4L60E in their GM product. I wish that I would have read what I did @ <http://www.transmissioncenter.net> 4 years ago before I bought that "Remanufactured Goodwrench (more like wretched) Transmission".
Here are My Questions:
Has anyone had any experience with Performance and Automotive Transmission Center's 4L60E Raptor transmission???
If so, how long have you had it and how many miles have you logged on it?
What other reputable places would you recommend for having a 4L60E transmission built to last (Greater than 150K mile of average abuse)?
If I were to do a rebuild myself, is there any way to flush all the crap out of the old transmission and torque converter effectively without needing to tow the vehicle to a shop?
Can the flush be done with the transmission removed from the vehicle?
What service manual(s) would you recommend for performing this feat?
About how much am I looking at spending for all the special tools required?
THANK YOU ALL for any of these questions you might be so gracious & able to answer.
C1500_Despilverado
Having owned a 1997 Silverado since it was new, I have learned first hand many of the DONT'S when it comes to transmission repair. After making the terrible mistake of purchasing and installing a GM remanufactured (you can't buy new) transmission and having it rebuilt 3 times under warranty since it was first installed, it has become resoundingly CLEAR to me that Original Equipment is not the way to go - REGARDLESS OF WARRANTY!!
I would very much appreciate hearing from anyone else who has fought the same battle with the 4L60E in their GM product. I wish that I would have read what I did @ <http://www.transmissioncenter.net> 4 years ago before I bought that "Remanufactured Goodwrench (more like wretched) Transmission".
Here are My Questions:
Has anyone had any experience with Performance and Automotive Transmission Center's 4L60E Raptor transmission???
If so, how long have you had it and how many miles have you logged on it?
What other reputable places would you recommend for having a 4L60E transmission built to last (Greater than 150K mile of average abuse)?
If I were to do a rebuild myself, is there any way to flush all the crap out of the old transmission and torque converter effectively without needing to tow the vehicle to a shop?
Can the flush be done with the transmission removed from the vehicle?
What service manual(s) would you recommend for performing this feat?
About how much am I looking at spending for all the special tools required?
THANK YOU ALL for any of these questions you might be so gracious & able to answer.
C1500_Despilverado
07-10-2005, 08:52 AM
#3
When you installed all these other transmissions what did you do for a converter?
I'll get back to you on the other questions, need to see what direction to go here.
I'm wondering because something sounds awfully wrong here.
If you're going to rebuild your transmission, why would you need to take the VEHICLE somewhere to flush the converter?
I'm looking to get to the cause of your problems, I'm not going to give you a generic answer.
I'll get back to you on the other questions, need to see what direction to go here.
I'm wondering because something sounds awfully wrong here.
If you're going to rebuild your transmission, why would you need to take the VEHICLE somewhere to flush the converter?
I'm looking to get to the cause of your problems, I'm not going to give you a generic answer.
07-10-2005, 09:23 AM
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The 4l60E is a good trans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! however knowbody understands them except for one guy that I know of.... The 60E's internals are pretty good the cause of faliure is not do to hard parts its lil parts like needle bearings that brake and cause falure to the hard parts not the parts themselves... these small issues need to be adressed first or it will fail....
Frank @ CTP in maryland is the only one that I know of that knowbody has broke his trans yet! We have guys running 11's spraying out the hole for 2 years before the input shaft finally gave up... ofcourse now he has eliminated that problum with a 65E input shaft! he has also adressed the issure of the 3-4 clutch pack wearing.... they wear cause of the low line pressure @ high Rpm's he has fixed this problum too with mods to the pump springs and some lil secret things...... I could talk to you all day about what he dose to the trans that others dont and for half the price.. send me a pm if your ready to stop breaking them.. he also offers a 1yr warranty on the race transmissions!
Frank @ CTP in maryland is the only one that I know of that knowbody has broke his trans yet! We have guys running 11's spraying out the hole for 2 years before the input shaft finally gave up... ofcourse now he has eliminated that problum with a 65E input shaft! he has also adressed the issure of the 3-4 clutch pack wearing.... they wear cause of the low line pressure @ high Rpm's he has fixed this problum too with mods to the pump springs and some lil secret things...... I could talk to you all day about what he dose to the trans that others dont and for half the price.. send me a pm if your ready to stop breaking them.. he also offers a 1yr warranty on the race transmissions!
Last edited by scottyballs; 07-27-2005 at 11:13 AM.
07-10-2005, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyballs
The 4l60E is a good trans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! however knowbody understands them except for one guy that I know of.... The 60E's internals are pretty good the cause of faliure is not do to hard parts its lil parts like needle bearings that brake and cause falure to the hard parts not the parts themselves... these small issues need to be adressed first or it will fail....
Frank @ CTP in maryland is the only one that I know of that knowbody has broke his trans yet! We have guys running 10's spraying out the hole for 2 years before the input shaft finally gave up... ofcourse now he has eliminated that problum with a 65E input shaft! he has also adressed the issure of the 3-4 clutch pack wearing.... they wear cause of the low line pressure @ high Rpm's he has fixed this problum too with mods to the pump springs and some lil secret things...... I could talk to you all day about what he dose to the trans that others dont and for half the price.. send me a pm if your ready to stop breaking them.. he also offers a 1yr warranty on the race transmissions!
Frank @ CTP in maryland is the only one that I know of that knowbody has broke his trans yet! We have guys running 10's spraying out the hole for 2 years before the input shaft finally gave up... ofcourse now he has eliminated that problum with a 65E input shaft! he has also adressed the issure of the 3-4 clutch pack wearing.... they wear cause of the low line pressure @ high Rpm's he has fixed this problum too with mods to the pump springs and some lil secret things...... I could talk to you all day about what he dose to the trans that others dont and for half the price.. send me a pm if your ready to stop breaking them.. he also offers a 1yr warranty on the race transmissions!
how much does he charge for a rebuild?
07-10-2005, 12:32 PM
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Chuck at Finish Line performance
https://www.flp2win.com/store/transmission.php
He did my trans last summer, and I am real happy with it. 125+ passes at the track with a 1.60 as my best. Not cheap, but I gotta believe you do not want to mess with it anymore.
However, there does sound like something else may be the problem like jxaxsxoxn states.
'J
https://www.flp2win.com/store/transmission.php
He did my trans last summer, and I am real happy with it. 125+ passes at the track with a 1.60 as my best. Not cheap, but I gotta believe you do not want to mess with it anymore.
However, there does sound like something else may be the problem like jxaxsxoxn states.
'J
07-10-2005, 12:50 PM
#7
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Rosler.
FLP.
Dr. Evil.
Rock On
Do some searches on them and see what you think. I might have forgot some, but they come to mind. All but Rossler are or can be had through sponsors. From what I have read Rosler is the best, but it WILL cost you.
I would never expect 150k miles with average abuse out of ANY 4l60E.
Edit: As I stated in another thread, at this time I would only recommend TCI, Yank and Precision Industries (vig) for converters.
FLP.
Dr. Evil.
Rock On
Do some searches on them and see what you think. I might have forgot some, but they come to mind. All but Rossler are or can be had through sponsors. From what I have read Rosler is the best, but it WILL cost you.
I would never expect 150k miles with average abuse out of ANY 4l60E.
Edit: As I stated in another thread, at this time I would only recommend TCI, Yank and Precision Industries (vig) for converters.
Last edited by blkZ28spt; 07-10-2005 at 01:44 PM.
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07-11-2005, 05:39 AM
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Rick Abare has one of my 4L60E's in a 1996 Firebird (with 3,400 pound running weight) turning 10.20-40's at 131-133mph, with over 1,000 verifiable runs at the track. This just shows that the 4L60E can be made to hold up to some pretty good horsepower/torque, when built correctly.
07-11-2005, 08:38 AM
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4L60E - Who Does It Best? Who can prove it? Wow, thanks for all the responses!!
I live in Tampa, Florida by the way and GOOD speed shops are hard to find.
They're kinda like tiki bars & night clubs the great ones never last and it is a awhile before another great one comes along....
There was a place years ago in either Winterhaven or Brooksville that did good trannny's but I can't seem to find their number.
Yes, there was more than one BADDDD tranny shop. Since the replacement was a goodwrench unit the warranty service had to be performed @ a GM dealership!!! This is the WORST place for Xmission work. I would not wish this upon ANYONE!!
I am an admitted tranny novice about to become an intermediate REAL soon. I know that I need to flush my Tran & Torque converter out to remove all the crap, but I don't know how to achieve this outside of pumping fresh blood into it and filtering or replacing the old.
How does the rest of the world do this??
It is normal to just replace the TC and just clean everything else as it is disassembled??
Anymore advice even of a general nature will be much appreciated.
Does anyone have a favorite service manual that they have used??
THANKS!!
C1500_Despilverado
1997 C1500 5.7L (Non-LS1, still makes 255HP!) Shortbed
Engine Bare Bone Stock 160K miles
Tampa, FL
I live in Tampa, Florida by the way and GOOD speed shops are hard to find.
They're kinda like tiki bars & night clubs the great ones never last and it is a awhile before another great one comes along....
There was a place years ago in either Winterhaven or Brooksville that did good trannny's but I can't seem to find their number.
Yes, there was more than one BADDDD tranny shop. Since the replacement was a goodwrench unit the warranty service had to be performed @ a GM dealership!!! This is the WORST place for Xmission work. I would not wish this upon ANYONE!!
I am an admitted tranny novice about to become an intermediate REAL soon. I know that I need to flush my Tran & Torque converter out to remove all the crap, but I don't know how to achieve this outside of pumping fresh blood into it and filtering or replacing the old.
How does the rest of the world do this??
It is normal to just replace the TC and just clean everything else as it is disassembled??
Anymore advice even of a general nature will be much appreciated.
Does anyone have a favorite service manual that they have used??
THANKS!!
C1500_Despilverado
1997 C1500 5.7L (Non-LS1, still makes 255HP!) Shortbed
Engine Bare Bone Stock 160K miles
Tampa, FL
07-11-2005, 05:28 PM
#11
You need to either get a new converter, rebuilt, or take yours to get cut open and rebuilt.
Flushing does not work.
Taking the trans apart and cleaning each part seperate it is what a non professional trans builder would do. The pros use a machine somewhat similiar to a dishwasher to clean their parts.
What I do, I disassemble it and use engine degreaser, water, compressed air and heat to dry for some parts and brake cleaner and air for most others.
Never use a rag.
Flushing does not work.
Taking the trans apart and cleaning each part seperate it is what a non professional trans builder would do. The pros use a machine somewhat similiar to a dishwasher to clean their parts.
What I do, I disassemble it and use engine degreaser, water, compressed air and heat to dry for some parts and brake cleaner and air for most others.
Never use a rag.
07-11-2005, 05:48 PM
#12
hey
Originally Posted by jxaxsxoxn
Put a **** converter in a
Rosler.
FLP.
Dr. Evil.
Rock On
and what do you end up with?
Rosler.
FLP.
Dr. Evil.
Rock On
and what do you end up with?
07-11-2005, 07:52 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Rock-On
A Rock-On with a shitty converter??? Am I right?? Hope this helps...Dave
Say someone has a TCI trans with a B&M converter and it fails, converter full of garbage same with the cooler and lines.
This someone pulls the converter out not knowing better and puts it right in your trans, then puts it in the car and connects the cooler lines.
Your not going to guarantee that your trans will work flawlessly in a situation like this right?
Hope this helps.....
07-11-2005, 11:41 PM
#15
1) i live in tampa
2) i run a 4L60e
3) i run 10s spraying out of the hole in a heavy TA
4) there are some GOOD speed shops that SPONSER this board IN TAMPA - Rev Xtreme ------> look over there. NLP in orlando area also sponsers and knows these cars!
5) CRT transmisions is in st pete and builds 10-11 second ls1 4L60e trannys that my buddys run.
i agree, there are a lot of shops that have NO BUSINESS in building a 4L60e. if you have failure over and over, blame the builder, not the tranny.
2) i run a 4L60e
3) i run 10s spraying out of the hole in a heavy TA
4) there are some GOOD speed shops that SPONSER this board IN TAMPA - Rev Xtreme ------> look over there. NLP in orlando area also sponsers and knows these cars!
5) CRT transmisions is in st pete and builds 10-11 second ls1 4L60e trannys that my buddys run.
i agree, there are a lot of shops that have NO BUSINESS in building a 4L60e. if you have failure over and over, blame the builder, not the tranny.
07-12-2005, 01:02 AM
#16
DO NOT buy a transmission from PATC. They sell great parts but are very unsuccessful at building transmissions. You would also find that "warranty" is a highly variable term in their vocabulary.
Finding a good builder is difficult. Here's something that might help - look at his workspace. It should be sanitary. Nothing on the bench. Nothing on the floor. Dry. There should be a dial indicator, calipers, a spreadsheet or book nearby with tollerances and/or blueprints, and all the specialized B/S tools the 4L60-E needs to come apart and be put back together CORRECTLY should all be present. If instead all you see is a stack of different-sized sockets obviously used to pound bushings in and out, and a BFH, run away!
Finding a good builder is difficult. Here's something that might help - look at his workspace. It should be sanitary. Nothing on the bench. Nothing on the floor. Dry. There should be a dial indicator, calipers, a spreadsheet or book nearby with tollerances and/or blueprints, and all the specialized B/S tools the 4L60-E needs to come apart and be put back together CORRECTLY should all be present. If instead all you see is a stack of different-sized sockets obviously used to pound bushings in and out, and a BFH, run away!
