darrensls1

My point is that the fastest LS1's in the country are autos. My point is that computers shift fasters then people. My point is that 2.5+ STR can rip a car out of the hole faster then most manuals and still be far more forgiving on a 10 bolt. My point is that you can't come to LS1tech and try to insult automatics in our own back yard (automatic transmission section).

And above all else. My point is that for building the ultimate F-body drag racing machine you NEED an automatic.

darrensls1

It always baffles me why M6 guys want to brag about how fast they can be on the streets or highways. I could care less how fast my car can go from 65-150 since I don't care to spend my time in jail. I could care less how fast my car can go from 30-120 since an early grave and vehicular manslaughter laws are not things I wish to experience anytime soon.

But perhaps you want a good fast car that can also be driven to and from the track. Can't do that in a auto right? Wrong.

Full bolt-ons
TH400 with all the goodies (add GV unit if you must have OD)
3600-4000 stall with at least a 2.5 STR
12 bolt rearend with 3.73's
Decent set of heads with FM13 or FM14 cam
150 wetshot of N20
Kick *** dyno-tune in a very respectable establishment (see sponsor list)
MT Drag Radials

I'd say that would make one kick *** street/strip car. Of course if this is a daily driver that sees rain then you may want to substitute the MT's for Nittos and keep some slicks around for track duty.

skipperbisket

iTrader: (4)

actually if you were to build the ULTIMATE LS1 (or any other race car for that matter) you would want a clutched transmission such as a liberty or direct drive setup. personally a Liberty 5speed would be my personal ultimate transmission. or maybe a lenco, but liberty would be my first choice.

darren as far as your arguement you can do the same setup with a T56 and drive it to/from the track and get MUCH better mileage while doing it. ultimately this all boils down to a personal preference and some people prefer autos and some manuals. personally i have a th400 with a chance 5800 bolt together converter.

8banger

iTrader: (16)

I've shut up a few people with my stall. I love when they get next to me, I get off the gas, let the R's drop below 2K, then just ******' nail it...next thing you know the tach is up at about 4K, *** end is getting a little squirrely, and I'm gone. You want to tell me that your 6M is faster? Plus it adds to the sleeper effect. Let someone look at my car, see the auto shifter and think its slow...just more money for me.

darrensls1

Actually, no. The powerglide is what I would consider the ultimate transmission for a track only beast. But TH350/TH400 is definately the way to go for a street/strip monster. If manuals were sooooo much better then they would be used in the fastest, err excuse me, the quickest F-bodies in the country. But they are not.


Personal preference is a very good observation. I personally prefer to lose the mpg war on the way to the track with an M6 so I can beat them down the track with a lower 60' and ultimately lower ET.

But that's just my goofy personal preference of wanting to win races more then conserve gas

98redorangeta

iTrader: (10)

top fule dragsters why on earth would you bring that up. They have clutch packs well so do auto trans top fule cars dont really have "gears" and there shifters work more like auto than any thing. M6 is great if all you have ever done your hole life is row gears and now you do it for a livving but if you dont get paid for it then you need to get an auto unless you want to lose or really need to get good gas milage. If mpg is your thing you need to be driving a honduh not a car with power.

skipperbisket

iTrader: (4)

dude, like i've said the quickest LS1s both have MANUAL transmissions in them (one a clutch lenco, and the other a liberty) the fastest of ANY drag cars are all manual transmission cars...END OF STORY. but for you guys the 'glide or th400/350 are fine.

Roarin_8

iTrader: (5)

I get the same comment at work also. "I can't believe you got that car in an auto" I got it in an auto because alot of people talk smack saying how autos are slower. I don't get too much of that now when people see the car launch.

I will get a manual Fbod in the future but that car will be for just highway/road racing usage.

BOBA_VETT

I get that crap, too. "I can't believe YOU, a CAR GUY has that car in an auto!?"

Yes, me, a "car guy", who does a ton of stop-and-go traffic driving, learned to drive a stick on the hills of San Francisco and rarely does closed-circuit racing has an auto.

Of course, I explain to them that when you have a 4-banger or even a slushbox-6, you NEED a stick. But if you have a well stalled auto and a V8, you're set.

They don't get it...

They also think that I got an auto because of my wife. Nope! She's the AutoX'er, she's the one with the stick.

And yeah, 2.73's are EVIL for "freeway fighting".

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

manuals are in the fastest cars in the country period but it boils down to class specifics.. hell ops runs autos, most bracket classes run autos, etc etc. the thing is, i doubt there are gonna be many of us that are gonna need a lenco or jerico tranny to go run som mid-low 6's..

black 2001Vette,Nightmare

Exactly...someone needs to compare apples to apples here...lol! People talking about dragsters and funny cars in this particular thread, in a desperate attempt to gain some ground for the stick guys, is way out of line, not to mention, off topic.
It's not really (quote)*END OF STORY*...it's just the END of his argument.

darrensls1

You make this all too easy but here goes. Here is a link to the fastest/quickest street legal LS1.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...0507htp_seven/

Now perhaps you're not going to open this link? Ok I'll copy and paste the most important parts.


Finally, the board ignites and simultaneously, the crew erupts--7.94 at 176 mph! Hardcore's Mule is now the fastest LS1 in the country--on stock suspension and 10.5-inch tires, no less!

Ronnie Duke
Car: 2002 Trans AM
Transmission: Turbo 400 built by Carl Rossler
Torque converter: Hughes Performance 5500-stall
Best ET/mph: 7.94 at 176
Best 60-ft. time: 1.24 (rear wheels)



Wait a tic. Isn't a Turbo 400 an automatic transmission?

Hold the phone. Isn't a torque converter only used in automatic transmissions?

Holy cow. Isn't 7.94 at 176 rediculously fast?

But surely this is as good as an automatic can do right?

This is off Rosslers website which can be found here

http://www.rosslertrans.com/

TH210

Carl Rossler 1955 Chevy

NMCA Pro Outlaw Street

best ET. 6.68@213mph

2600 lbs. with mufflers



Now I think we can truly say............

END OF STORY!


and have a nice day

darrensls1

I want to say for the record that I am not biased against manual cars. I know it seems that way whenever I get in one of these stupid manual is better then auto debates. But trust me when I say that nothing is farther from the truth.

I think what Taner has done with his M6 is absolutely amazing. I think what Evan Smith has done with stock manuals is also amazing. I agree 100% that stock for stock manuals are faster, get better gas milage and for most people are more "fun" to drive. I also agree that for road course type of racing the manual is the only way to go.

My ultimate goal is to have my Formula a drag queen with a TH400 and running at least mid 10's. Then I want to get a manual car (vette or WS6) to enjoy on a sunny Sunday afternoon.

hugger1975

iTrader: (3)

Lets be honest guys.
Did you buy your car to go as fast as possible by just hitting the gas?

Its kinda like running a road course with a car that drives its self.
I know there is more to it (set up, suspension, etc) but the guys in the 12's that are proud of whuppin on 6speeds make me chuckle a little. If I wanted to go fast with no driver imput, I would go to Ceder Point* (fastest coaster around)

No need to bash. I know its personal opinion.
I had an auto LT1. When I got my LS1, I made sure it was a 6peed.
I just wanna say "I" drove the car to 10's, not the car drove itself.


{End of personal opinion.}

For those who still need to give me the "lets line up" and "but may stall" stuff,
My car is on its way to the shop for lots of goodies. Built rear, DP nos, etc.....
I would love an 10 second auto z28 as a 2nd car but my 1st choice is the 6speed.

Bharnz

I dont like to have to set my beer down when I'm beating a Stang

darrensls1

If I wanted full driver input I would just buy a Fred Flintstone car and really have full control of everything

You have to remember that cars do not drive themselves. Transmission shifting is nothing more then a chore. Some consider it "fun" and others consider it "work". Automatic transmissions are a symbol of technology. Back in the day all cars where manuals because we didn't have the technology for computer controlled transmissions and torque converters. But today we have this wonderful technology and some of us like to use it.

Would you prefer to hand write all letters and put them in stamped envelopes yourself or just send an email? Would you prefer to keep all important data hand written on paper in file cabinets (like they did years ago) or store it all on computer hard drives?

Technology is a good thing. Perhaps it's not for everyone but it certainly not something you should or even could snub your nose at.

7.94 @ 176 speaks pretty damn loud of why technology and automatic transmissions are a good thing.

silkey

in the old days,60s 70s time period a four speed was the way to go.if you had a poor launch you could run them down by the time they hit third.but today with so much horsepower,the rules have changed.the auto is the perfect choice.why?simple,the auto manages the torque in a way that no stick shift guy can do.in a properly set up auto for the strip all you do is adjust the suspension and get the right tires on.i dont know how fast you run,but when you start getting in the tens,you just dont have the time to watch every thing.its either tach and road,or tack and oil pressure.in a stick car just one thing like a semi hung shift,or a tad slow or fast on the shift,the changes in clutch feel make you pay attention to the shift,as in whats wrong or whew,that was close!those things break your routine and can result in a slower et than you should run.the auto is a stab and steer.just that much less to go wrong on a run.all this will mean nothing to you untill you have a big money run.then you will know what i mean.

darrensls1

Good point silkey. Another thing I forgot to add was that even though the 4L60E is fully computer controlled, the TH400 is not. So these guys running big HP cars do have to interact with the transmission by upshifting themselves. The only difference is they do not need to use a clutch pedal.

But it still takes the driver to shift and keep an eye on the rpm's so you're doing it right when it needs to be shifted. That's plenty of control IMO. If I really feel the need to work out my left leg I can always join a karate class, Yoga or take up jogging.

Seriously, this does not mean the manuals have no technology in them either. The T56 is a very strong and modern transmission. For the road course I would want this with a spec 3 clutch but for drag racing I would want a TH400 with transbrake. It's not a matter or right or wrong. It's just a matter of picking the best tool to do a particular job.

Honda Hunter

iTrader: (8)

On the street doing 65+ if a 6 speed pulls up beside you with the same Horsepower and drops it who will win to 120? 6 speed correct? Would it be fair to say the 6 speed is better/faster for all around on the street performance? Ive seen races (from the passenger side seat) where someone is cruising with thier A4 doing 70 then trys to gun it but gets walked by a car with less horsepower and a M6.

Roarin_8

iTrader: (5)

Those autos weren't stalled. A stalled auto pulls a hell of a lot better on the highway than an auto without one.