Pontiac's Nail in the Coffin
04-02-2009, 09:28 PM
#81
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You got my immature back up to help ya lol! I with the UAW 4th region. I get to deal with the union bashing day in day out and its hugely comical and only about 5% have any clue what they are talking about. You're hitting the nail on the head. GM builds great products, but they turn out too often be to great i.e. competing in markets in which they have little understanding of the market. The G8 was our biggest hope that we could see it become successful and get it brought here to North America and make it profitable but they just cant sell many and we cant figure out why. Hopefully we'll see good deals cut from our leadership with GM but it appears too little to late.
04-02-2009, 11:38 PM
#82
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Yeah, I think one way or the other the gov't isn't going to let GM disappear, or atleast they don't seem to want that to happen. Whether it means they will pull through this or even if they declare bankruptcy, the administration seems to be saying that Bankruptcy could be another option to be able to restructure, but they don't seem to be saying if they declare bankruptcy that they will be gone for good. So even worse case scenerio it seems they aren't going to give up on GM. Or so it seems...
I personally feel that the big 3 should pull the plug on most luxury car options for a short term in the same way they did muscle cars in the early 70s and see where that leaves them. Some of the basics. The after market companies can handle the options for people should they truly want them. Id also like to see Scott Settlemire move further up the chevy chain. Possibly running the whole division. He seems to have the pulse of the business figured out and loves what he does. The other divisions like Pontiac and Buick should just be sold if their intent is to be disbanded like Oldsmobile. Potential buyers could be Tiger Woods and Burt Reynolds lol!
04-03-2009, 06:35 AM
#85
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^^^ I believe a reason for the G8 flunking is the government hippies have brainwashed us into being "green". And you know you can't be green having a V8! 
04-03-2009, 08:56 AM
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When gas price's went back down demand for SUV's and trucks went back up (i'm already seeing a lot more ppl driving hummers again), government wasn't responsible for the surge in gas price's, the free unregulated market was, and it was at a time when demand for oil was going down price's skyrocketed through the roof, go figure. Soon as they went down demand for trucks and v8's went back up. Reason G8 wasn't as much of a success imo was because of it's price tag, aspecially now-a-days. I agree about easing up on luxury and focusing small affordable cars for a while keeping with the economy until people have balanced out their money and credit score for them to be ready to take a loan for loaded fast luxurious cars.
04-03-2009, 03:43 PM
#87
I think Ron Paul said it best... back in late September 2008... that when the government gets involved in something like this, it will only prolong the problem. With the Feds getting involved in the banking fiasco, housing crash, and auto industry, it isn't allowing the "darwinism" of capitalism to happen. The companies that are poorly managed should wash out, leaving a void for new, better managed companies to step in and thrive. The problem is, they might be foreign companies.
When Paul talked about it, he said that the free market would nose dive very very hard under the pressures we're seeing. But it would bounce back much faster, because the pain would hit all at once. By keeping this clusterfuck from exploding, the Feds aren't allowing the really bad crash to happen. But the effects, though not as bad, will be felt over a much longer time period and will end up hurting us much worse. Not to mention the cost...
I know the fear here is that if we do nothing, we end up like Japan's lost decade. Japan did nothing in the 90s and their economy stagnated. They still have the #2 economy in the world, even if they haven't grown in 20 years. But stagnation is apparently a worse solution than owing TRILLIONS to China.
When Paul talked about it, he said that the free market would nose dive very very hard under the pressures we're seeing. But it would bounce back much faster, because the pain would hit all at once. By keeping this clusterfuck from exploding, the Feds aren't allowing the really bad crash to happen. But the effects, though not as bad, will be felt over a much longer time period and will end up hurting us much worse. Not to mention the cost...
I know the fear here is that if we do nothing, we end up like Japan's lost decade. Japan did nothing in the 90s and their economy stagnated. They still have the #2 economy in the world, even if they haven't grown in 20 years. But stagnation is apparently a worse solution than owing TRILLIONS to China.
04-03-2009, 04:25 PM
#89
04-03-2009, 05:04 PM
#90
The only sucessful government program is the miltary. They have failed at everything else. Why give them more things to **** up.
04-03-2009, 08:38 PM
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I think Ron Paul said it best... back in late September 2008... that when the government gets involved in something like this, it will only prolong the problem. With the Feds getting involved in the banking fiasco, housing crash, and auto industry, it isn't allowing the "darwinism" of capitalism to happen. The companies that are poorly managed should wash out, leaving a void for new, better managed companies to step in and thrive. The problem is, they might be foreign companies.
When Paul talked about it, he said that the free market would nose dive very very hard under the pressures we're seeing. But it would bounce back much faster, because the pain would hit all at once. By keeping this clusterfuck from exploding, the Feds aren't allowing the really bad crash to happen. But the effects, though not as bad, will be felt over a much longer time period and will end up hurting us much worse. Not to mention the cost...
I know the fear here is that if we do nothing, we end up like Japan's lost decade. Japan did nothing in the 90s and their economy stagnated. They still have the #2 economy in the world, even if they haven't grown in 20 years. But stagnation is apparently a worse solution than owing TRILLIONS to China.
When Paul talked about it, he said that the free market would nose dive very very hard under the pressures we're seeing. But it would bounce back much faster, because the pain would hit all at once. By keeping this clusterfuck from exploding, the Feds aren't allowing the really bad crash to happen. But the effects, though not as bad, will be felt over a much longer time period and will end up hurting us much worse. Not to mention the cost...
I know the fear here is that if we do nothing, we end up like Japan's lost decade. Japan did nothing in the 90s and their economy stagnated. They still have the #2 economy in the world, even if they haven't grown in 20 years. But stagnation is apparently a worse solution than owing TRILLIONS to China.
04-04-2009, 10:40 AM
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04-04-2009, 12:50 PM
#94
No offense but millions of people are ******* tired of having their hard-earned money extorted from them by the government to prop up insolvent companies.
04-04-2009, 01:16 PM
#95
Being Libertarians isnt the answer either. I respect Ron Paul a ton and think he is very genuine but the libertarians that took over the RNC 30 years ago have tried it their way twice. 20 outta the last 28 years in the U.S. have been this form of governing and it didnt tackle the domestic issues that are strangling these industries and unless Ron Paul has a direct way to handle the problems that are hurting us(without just shoving the costs onto the tax payers and saying "Fixed") then they need to come up with better solutions rather then tired and worn out ideas.
How does more borrowing and more spending make sense as a solution to too much borrowing and too much spending?
Instead, the government is increasing taxes on the more productive people in the US, which also tend to be the ones that have jobs to offer other people. In addition, the government is continuing to run record deficits, which will burden the taxpayer in the future.
04-04-2009, 02:25 PM
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If all those people got laid off in an already horrible economy where there is a huge line ahead of you, you think it will cost any less? I don't like it but it's either that or things would have gotten a lot worse.
04-04-2009, 04:20 PM
#97
Through college, in addition to my classes, I took it upon myself to learn how to weld steel, do some manual (and a bit of CNC) machining, work on engines, and all-around basic repair and fabrication. Speaking hypothetically, if I got laid off, I would likely take the skills I acquired and offer discount services to people in my community. There's also family, friends, and community charities to go to for help. I have no problem with charity on a community level because it is all volunteered...not forced.
If all those people got laid off in an already horrible economy where there is a huge line ahead of you, you think it will cost any less? I don't like it but it's either that or things would have gotten a lot worse.
Instead of just ripping the band-aid off, the government is just slowly, clumsily pulling it off, making it all the more painful in the long term.
I will also attack this from a moral point of view and say that the welfare of those people is not my responsibility. If they did not have the foresight to save money in the case of such a situation happening, then that is their fault. I don't believe in forced wealth redistribution.
04-04-2009, 06:45 PM
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I'm about to graduate. I had all but secured my dream job until the **** hit the fan. I got a call saying hiring was now frozen and they could no longer offer me the awesome position I never thought I would find. Now, the number of entry-level positions is getting more and more sparse. Believe me when I say I am worried too.
Through college, in addition to my classes, I took it upon myself to learn how to weld steel, do some manual (and a bit of CNC) machining, work on engines, and all-around basic repair and fabrication. Speaking hypothetically, if I got laid off, I would likely take the skills I acquired and offer discount services to people in my community. There's also family, friends, and community charities to go to for help. I have no problem with charity on a community level because it is all volunteered...not forced.
Yes, things would be very difficult initially but what the hell do you think happens over time as the government props up and runs zombie corporations? More debt and inferior products. For example, the government is likely going to offer to back new GM warranties. Think bout having to go to the DMV if your new transmission goes, just imagine the paperwork, the lack of customer service...no smart person is going to want to pay for that. It will be the least efficient service you can find. I doubt many shops will be willing to go through the utter hell of dealing with the federal government. It won't be worth their time. Cost goes up, quality goes down. This will likely happen on the manufacturing level, as well.
Instead of just ripping the band-aid off, the government is just slowly, clumsily pulling it off, making it all the more painful in the long term.
I will also attack this from a moral point of view and say that the welfare of those people is not my responsibility. If they did not have the foresight to save money in the case of such a situation happening, then that is their fault. I don't believe in forced wealth redistribution.
Through college, in addition to my classes, I took it upon myself to learn how to weld steel, do some manual (and a bit of CNC) machining, work on engines, and all-around basic repair and fabrication. Speaking hypothetically, if I got laid off, I would likely take the skills I acquired and offer discount services to people in my community. There's also family, friends, and community charities to go to for help. I have no problem with charity on a community level because it is all volunteered...not forced.
Yes, things would be very difficult initially but what the hell do you think happens over time as the government props up and runs zombie corporations? More debt and inferior products. For example, the government is likely going to offer to back new GM warranties. Think bout having to go to the DMV if your new transmission goes, just imagine the paperwork, the lack of customer service...no smart person is going to want to pay for that. It will be the least efficient service you can find. I doubt many shops will be willing to go through the utter hell of dealing with the federal government. It won't be worth their time. Cost goes up, quality goes down. This will likely happen on the manufacturing level, as well.
Instead of just ripping the band-aid off, the government is just slowly, clumsily pulling it off, making it all the more painful in the long term.
I will also attack this from a moral point of view and say that the welfare of those people is not my responsibility. If they did not have the foresight to save money in the case of such a situation happening, then that is their fault. I don't believe in forced wealth redistribution.
Well I wish you the best of luck but will have to agree to disagree. I strongly disagree with the last statement aspecially but I don't think anything I can say will change your mind.
04-04-2009, 07:46 PM
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04-04-2009, 08:30 PM
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