370Z: Failure
01-06-2010, 10:10 PM
#1
370Z: Failure Just got my new issue of Car and Driver and read the article about the 2009 Lightning Lap at Virginia International Raceway. There were some very impressive times this year but one that wasn't so impressive: The 370Z. Its brakes are so bad that not only could they not hold up to track use, but the car actually crashed. The pedal just went to the floor when they tried to slow down for one of the turns, resulting in the 370Z smashing into the retaining wall.
Note that NONE of the other cars had this problem. There were no other brake failures, no other cars had their brakes drop to the floor. When inspected, it was discovered that nothing had broken, the poorly designed brake system had just overheated resulting in temporary but near deadly loss of braking.
How does this happen in a car thats supposed to be track ready?? Thats the entire idea behind the NISMO package, that its for the track. A major part of the problem lies in Nissan's shitty calipers. Instead of using Brembos on a $40,000 car, they chose to use their own calipers, which are garbage. Nissan blamed the brake pads, which also makes no sense considering there wasn't just an increase in force needed to stop, the pedal actually dropped dead to the floor.
Here's the link:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p_2009-feature
Note that NONE of the other cars had this problem. There were no other brake failures, no other cars had their brakes drop to the floor. When inspected, it was discovered that nothing had broken, the poorly designed brake system had just overheated resulting in temporary but near deadly loss of braking.
How does this happen in a car thats supposed to be track ready?? Thats the entire idea behind the NISMO package, that its for the track. A major part of the problem lies in Nissan's shitty calipers. Instead of using Brembos on a $40,000 car, they chose to use their own calipers, which are garbage. Nissan blamed the brake pads, which also makes no sense considering there wasn't just an increase in force needed to stop, the pedal actually dropped dead to the floor.
Here's the link:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p_2009-feature
01-07-2010, 04:13 PM
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01-07-2010, 04:38 PM
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Should be no surprise considering the massive disaster that is the GT-R.
Shame though, I actually like the 370z. The only problem I had with it is that the interior is way too small for me. But then i'm 6'2" 200lbs so I guess the car is just not designed for guys of my stature..
Shame though, I actually like the 370z. The only problem I had with it is that the interior is way too small for me. But then i'm 6'2" 200lbs so I guess the car is just not designed for guys of my stature..
01-07-2010, 05:24 PM
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They've got a side bar about that story in the same issue talking about how Nissan's engineer's said the brakes needed to be upgraded for nismo package, but the bean counter's wouldn't do it. I would bet they were excited they failed in this test so they can strong arm the upgraded brakes they wanted to put on there.
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01-08-2010, 07:42 AM
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Watch for a new break replacement for these cars. I still think 370s are decent cars. Not everyone that buys them are going to be running them on the track like this, therefore the break issue wont really be a problem IMHO.
01-08-2010, 09:50 AM
#11
Launching!
Try doing repeat 100mph+ of nailing the brakes with our stock F-bodies and see how soon you have no brakes. Maybe the first try. If you are driving a car on the road course you need road course brakes. If you go to the drag strip, you need drag tires. Same concept. I don't expect track brakes on a 35-40K car, maybe on a 50k car like a Z06.
01-08-2010, 10:44 AM
#12
Try doing repeat 100mph+ of nailing the brakes with our stock F-bodies and see how soon you have no brakes. Maybe the first try. If you are driving a car on the road course you need road course brakes. If you go to the drag strip, you need drag tires. Same concept. I don't expect track brakes on a 35-40K car, maybe on a 50k car like a Z06.
I fail to see your point.
On another note, alot of magazines aren't exactly raving about the ZR1's handling characteristics. It was the fastest car around the track, pulled the hardest G's right behind the X-Bow, but they say it is just plain scary to drive. They say it is extremely finiky, and will come out from underneath you really quick.
01-08-2010, 11:21 AM
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Thats not exactly a fair comparison at all. The 370Z Nismo, and a 4th gen Fbody are 2 different cars, with 2 different purposes. The 370Z Nismo car was designed around track duty. The Nismo package is supposed to be the upgraded handling and performance package. The car simply did not hold up to its hype.
The 370z is a definitive sports car. It needs good brakes. These days we have certain standards for all types of cars, and one that certainly applies here is that a modern sports car needs to have brakes that can handle a hot lap or two. Not necessarily a day of racing, but at least a good hard run. On top of that this Nismo Z was supposed to be a track car. So it needs brakes that can handle a day of racing.
On another note, alot of magazines aren't exactly raving about the ZR1's handling characteristics. It was the fastest car around the track, pulled the hardest G's right behind the X-Bow, but they say it is just plain scary to drive. They say it is extremely finiky, and will come out from underneath you really quick.
01-08-2010, 11:33 AM
#15
640hp will do that. Believe me I know from personal experience...at that power level, there's no front engined platform that won't be finicky...in fact I dare say the correct word is scary. In a car like that, you are not really driving it, you are respectfully asking it not to kill you.
I was very surprised to see the Grand Sport was quicker than the R8. It still doesn't quite make sense to me.
01-08-2010, 12:19 PM
#17
Lets compare Nurburgring times.
Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 - 7:26.4
Pagani Zonda F Clubsport - 7:24.7
Ferrari 430 Scuderia - 7:39
I wouldn't say the ZR1 fairs too bad considering the price of its competition.
All the editors are saying is it will get away from you if you aren't completely focused... but you can't exactly say it handles bad. Going around the track at a high rate of speed in a 640hp car is not for the faint of heart.
I also remember watching a clip of Top Gear with the Pagani Zonda. I forget who was driving, but they were losing control constantly. The only person that could get the car around the track quickly was the Stig. Thats my recollection of that episode anyways... maybe I don't remember correctly.
Anyways, we are getting a bit off topic.
01-08-2010, 12:45 PM
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The FXX is a totally different platform. Mid engined cars are a whole different animal. I don't know if you have track experience so I don't mean any disrespect, but you can talk to anyone who has driven high powered mid-engined cars close to their limit and they will tell you it's almost like learning to drive again. The car acts very different because of it's architecture. Some people look at this as a good thing, some look at it as a bad thing. Guys who are good at handling high-powered front engined cars will have some advantages over the mid engined cars...coming into a turn too hot in a front-engined car can be corrected by purposely breaking the rear loose and powersliding. That's not happening in any mid-engined car...that driver will be heading for the dirt (or worse - the wall - see video of eddie griffin doing exactly that in an enzo on youtube). That's just one of many examples of the differences in dynamics between the different types of platforms. Front engined cars are often preferred thanks to lower maintenance costs and generally better reliability. Mid-engined cars get preference in some cases because they tend to be alot easier to drive at the limit...however that doesn't mean that they handle better.
01-08-2010, 01:04 PM
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I also remember watching a clip of Top Gear with the Pagani Zonda. I forget who was driving, but they were losing control constantly. The only person that could get the car around the track quickly was the Stig. Thats my recollection of that episode anyways... maybe I don't remember correctly.
