ZL1 Tested vs BOSS
01-22-2012, 02:44 AM
#161
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01-22-2012, 08:43 PM
#162
Did we forget that the ZL1 should be compared to the GT500 and the SS should be compared to the BOSS. If that was the game, the BOSS wins because it's already lighter and quicker and Ford has an over weight GT500 competing with the Corvette upper line, which IMO should be all alone in that field and should be competing with the exotic rods of the world.
I also think GM could use the "new" CTS-V as a GT500 competitor too.
My 2 cents
I also think GM could use the "new" CTS-V as a GT500 competitor too.
My 2 cents
01-22-2012, 10:11 PM
#163
Did we forget that the ZL1 should be compared to the GT500 and the SS should be compared to the BOSS. If that was the game, the BOSS wins because it's already lighter and quicker and Ford has an over weight GT500 competing with the Corvette upper line, which IMO should be all alone in that field and should be competing with the exotic rods of the world.
I also think GM could use the "new" CTS-V as a GT500 competitor too.
My 2 cents
I also think GM could use the "new" CTS-V as a GT500 competitor too.
My 2 cents
The MSRP of the ZL1 is 55k. The BOSS is much closer in price (more than double the difference actually)to the ZL1 than the SS.
The mags even compared the SS to the GT500 in 2010 LMAO. I took it as more of a compliment personally.
01-22-2012, 10:20 PM
#165
Everyone needs to remember that GM already setpped on their own toes by making a Camaro that will outperform a corvette. Thats a huge GM no-no and one reason why they stopped producing the GNX and Typhoon/Syclone.
I'd say between the companies it goes:
SS<GT<BOSS<Laguna Seca<ZL1<Gran Sport<2013 GT500<Z06 carbon<ZR1
Also, has anyone noticed the GT500 doesn't exist yet? Meaning until it does actually debut and start production, the ZL1 is the fastest and best bang for the buck car $55k and under.
GM fans have a few months to glote
You mean the 2012 FE4 suspension?
I'd say between the companies it goes:
SS<GT<BOSS<Laguna Seca<ZL1<Gran Sport<2013 GT500<Z06 carbon<ZR1
Also, has anyone noticed the GT500 doesn't exist yet? Meaning until it does actually debut and start production, the ZL1 is the fastest and best bang for the buck car $55k and under.
GM fans have a few months to glote
You mean the 2012 FE4 suspension?
01-22-2012, 10:35 PM
#168
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The current GT500 hasn't been put against a ZL1 yet, I think it's going to be about even with the ZL1 everywhere when they finally do test the two. Trap speeds on the ZL1 are the same as the current GT500, and the GT500 still beats the Boss LS around the track, so GM fans can't even say that yet.
BOSS APPROVED!
01-23-2012, 03:59 PM
#172
But then what should the base Mustang GT be compared to/with, the Camaro V6?
The Camaro SS gets grouped in with the Mustang GT, not with the Boss 302 or certainly not with the Boss 302 Laguna Seca version,
that will hopefully be some future Camaro's (Z28?) job. 
The Camaro SS gets grouped in with the Mustang GT, not with the Boss 302 or certainly not with the Boss 302 Laguna Seca version,
that will hopefully be some future Camaro's (Z28?) job.
01-23-2012, 11:40 PM
#173
Thats the problem, saying the BOSS is out of the SS class because it's higher priced and track ready with 22 more HP is a easy way out for saying I can't compete -- and it's ok ...to settle for the GT with 10 less hp when we know the results at the track. Maybe so, so maybe GM has a hole in their line up and should create an RPO package that should line up with the BOSS. But they don't, so your stuck with the SS and the 422 hp. When you line up against the BOSS at the light are you going to give him the wave NOT TO RACE so you can wait for the GT....give me a break! Who ever mentioned the v6 is smoking and to wait for the Z28, it ain't happening.
To give the Camaro the respect it deserves the ZL1 should be compared to the S/C line up of Mustangs regardless of names. GM let Ford build a Mustang to compete with the Vette and now they are reacting.
In the old days, GM would put some RPO package together to stay competitive or a dealer, keeping it simple. You brought your Camaro SS, ZL1, RS, COPO, Z28, whatever and raced against the Ford Mustang line, GT, BOSS, whatever.
To much analyzing down to the knats ***, another words excuses. GM needs to get create in this particular tight market. I would love to walk in and have the option to order a base with a LS3 RPO engine option that I can pick 427ci with 450 or 475 hp special COPO with 1LE supsension, etc. They can keep the bing options.
As for the Vette, the big boys are going to buy the ones with more HP and others will settled for less - basic hp options. These are people that just want to say they have a Vette.
Sorry for the long vent...
To give the Camaro the respect it deserves the ZL1 should be compared to the S/C line up of Mustangs regardless of names. GM let Ford build a Mustang to compete with the Vette and now they are reacting.
In the old days, GM would put some RPO package together to stay competitive or a dealer, keeping it simple. You brought your Camaro SS, ZL1, RS, COPO, Z28, whatever and raced against the Ford Mustang line, GT, BOSS, whatever.
To much analyzing down to the knats ***, another words excuses. GM needs to get create in this particular tight market. I would love to walk in and have the option to order a base with a LS3 RPO engine option that I can pick 427ci with 450 or 475 hp special COPO with 1LE supsension, etc. They can keep the bing options.
As for the Vette, the big boys are going to buy the ones with more HP and others will settled for less - basic hp options. These are people that just want to say they have a Vette.
Sorry for the long vent...
01-24-2012, 01:27 AM
#175
On the strip yes it has a few tenth advantage.
Being that the non fe4 SS from 2010 and 2011 only lost to the GT in the last road test I seen by .1 per lap I wouldnt be surprised if the 2012 SS is faster on a road course. They revised the suspension quite a bit and the fe4 suspension is standard on the 2012 SS.
I would like to see them test the 2012 SS and 2012 GT on a road course again and see what happens. I wouldnt be surprised if the camaro won handily.
If you were to actually do an entire race on a road course, according to Pedders (gm licensed manufacturer of suspension parts, they also make parts for the mustang) the GT wouldnt make it more than a couple laps anyway before the brakes failed...supposedly they are far inferior to the set up on the camaro. Pedders did a comprehensive test and posted the results on camaro 5.
After a couple laps the GTs brakes were beginning to fail (yes the brembo package) and the camaro was doing well.
Being that the non fe4 SS from 2010 and 2011 only lost to the GT in the last road test I seen by .1 per lap I wouldnt be surprised if the 2012 SS is faster on a road course. They revised the suspension quite a bit and the fe4 suspension is standard on the 2012 SS.
I would like to see them test the 2012 SS and 2012 GT on a road course again and see what happens. I wouldnt be surprised if the camaro won handily.
If you were to actually do an entire race on a road course, according to Pedders (gm licensed manufacturer of suspension parts, they also make parts for the mustang) the GT wouldnt make it more than a couple laps anyway before the brakes failed...supposedly they are far inferior to the set up on the camaro. Pedders did a comprehensive test and posted the results on camaro 5.
After a couple laps the GTs brakes were beginning to fail (yes the brembo package) and the camaro was doing well.
01-24-2012, 01:34 AM
#176
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On the strip yes it has a few tenth advantage.
Being that the non fe4 SS from 2010 and 2011 only lost to the GT in the last road test I seen by .1 per lap I wouldnt be surprised if the 2012 SS is faster on a road course. They revised the suspension quite a bit and the fe4 suspension is standard on the 2012 SS.
I would like to see them test the 2012 SS and 2012 GT on a road course again and see what happens. I wouldnt be surprised if the camaro won handily.
If you were to actually do an entire race on a road course, according to Pedders (gm licensed manufacturer of suspension parts, they also make parts for the mustang) the GT wouldnt make it more than a couple laps anyway before the brakes failed...supposedly they are far inferior to the set up on the camaro. Pedders did a comprehensive test and posted the results on camaro 5.
After a couple laps the GTs brakes were beginning to fail (yes the brembo package) and the camaro was doing well.
Being that the non fe4 SS from 2010 and 2011 only lost to the GT in the last road test I seen by .1 per lap I wouldnt be surprised if the 2012 SS is faster on a road course. They revised the suspension quite a bit and the fe4 suspension is standard on the 2012 SS.
I would like to see them test the 2012 SS and 2012 GT on a road course again and see what happens. I wouldnt be surprised if the camaro won handily.
If you were to actually do an entire race on a road course, according to Pedders (gm licensed manufacturer of suspension parts, they also make parts for the mustang) the GT wouldnt make it more than a couple laps anyway before the brakes failed...supposedly they are far inferior to the set up on the camaro. Pedders did a comprehensive test and posted the results on camaro 5.
After a couple laps the GTs brakes were beginning to fail (yes the brembo package) and the camaro was doing well.
01-24-2012, 02:59 AM
#177
426hp actually (400 in the automatic).
And there are worse things in the world than "being stuck with" 426hp.
Not sure if I'm understanding your logic here...if a ZL1 pulls up to a Mustang GT at a light, is the GT driver going to wave him on as well so he can wait for an SS?
Not sure I'm following you here, the cars are either well matched (be it in price or power output/aspiration) in the markeplace or they're not.
I do agree that there is currently a gap in the Camaro line up though, they have no true Boss 302 (fast, road racing oriented, naturally aspirated, under $41k etc.) competitor.
You have factual confirmation of this?
And there are worse things in the world than "being stuck with" 426hp.
Not sure I'm following you here, the cars are either well matched (be it in price or power output/aspiration) in the markeplace or they're not.
I do agree that there is currently a gap in the Camaro line up though, they have no true Boss 302 (fast, road racing oriented, naturally aspirated, under $41k etc.) competitor.
You have factual confirmation of this?
01-24-2012, 10:22 AM
#178
Thats the problem, saying the BOSS is out of the SS class because it's higher priced and track ready with 22 more HP is a easy way out for saying I can't compete -- and it's ok ...to settle for the GT with 10 less hp when we know the results at the track. Maybe so, so maybe GM has a hole in their line up and should create an RPO package that should line up with the BOSS. But they don't, so your stuck with the SS and the 422 hp. When you line up against the BOSS at the light are you going to give him the wave NOT TO RACE so you can wait for the GT....give me a break! Who ever mentioned the v6 is smoking and to wait for the Z28, it ain't happening.To give the Camaro the respect it deserves the ZL1 should be compared to the S/C line up of Mustangs regardless of names. GM let Ford build a Mustang to compete with the Vette and now they are reacting.
In the old days, GM would put some RPO package together to stay competitive or a dealer, keeping it simple. You brought your Camaro SS, ZL1, RS, COPO, Z28, whatever and raced against the Ford Mustang line, GT, BOSS, whatever.
To much analyzing down to the knats ***, another words excuses. GM needs to get create in this particular tight market. I would love to walk in and have the option to order a base with a LS3 RPO engine option that I can pick 427ci with 450 or 475 hp special COPO with 1LE supsension, etc. They can keep the bing options.
As for the Vette, the big boys are going to buy the ones with more HP and others will settled for less - basic hp options. These are people that just want to say they have a Vette.
Sorry for the long vent...
In the old days, GM would put some RPO package together to stay competitive or a dealer, keeping it simple. You brought your Camaro SS, ZL1, RS, COPO, Z28, whatever and raced against the Ford Mustang line, GT, BOSS, whatever.
To much analyzing down to the knats ***, another words excuses. GM needs to get create in this particular tight market. I would love to walk in and have the option to order a base with a LS3 RPO engine option that I can pick 427ci with 450 or 475 hp special COPO with 1LE supsension, etc. They can keep the bing options.
As for the Vette, the big boys are going to buy the ones with more HP and others will settled for less - basic hp options. These are people that just want to say they have a Vette.
Sorry for the long vent...
That being said, I highly doubt the Camaro is done being expanded on. I would not be suprised if a Z28 model came out to compete with the boss.
I for one am glad there isn't 50 billion variants of the Camaro like there is the Mustang. They're keeping it simple yet creative, with a few special packages here and there and a pretty simple lineup.
01-24-2012, 11:32 AM
#179
To much analyzing down to the knats ***, another words excuses. GM needs to get create in this particular tight market. I would love to walk in and have the option to order a base with a LS3 RPO engine option that I can pick 427ci with 450 or 475 hp special COPO with 1LE supsension, etc. They can keep the bing options.
disclaimer: having a little fun with the take rate for illustrative purposes.
01-24-2012, 12:00 PM
#180
"back in the day" a car could go from concept to production in >6 months. Not even close to being true anymore so that's why GM isn't being "creative" as you put it.
That being said, I highly doubt the Camaro is done being expanded on. I would not be suprised if a Z28 model came out to compete with the boss.
I for one am glad there isn't 50 billion variants of the Camaro like there is the Mustang. They're keeping it simple yet creative, with a few special packages here and there and a pretty simple lineup.
That being said, I highly doubt the Camaro is done being expanded on. I would not be suprised if a Z28 model came out to compete with the boss.
I for one am glad there isn't 50 billion variants of the Camaro like there is the Mustang. They're keeping it simple yet creative, with a few special packages here and there and a pretty simple lineup.
Also...GM produces 5 variants of the corvette as well. Ford only has the mustang to produce so it would only be logical they would offer more variations.
GM has a camaro v6, camaro ss, camaro zl1, regular corvette, corvette grand sport, corvette zo6, zo6 carbon, and corvette zr1. I think they may produce something like a z28 eventually though.