Camaro Chief Engineer on the LSA ZL1 vs 2013 5.8L GT500
01-23-2012, 08:09 PM
#81
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Why don't you tell us how you really feel? lol
I'm not hating on this car, it is clearly very capable, just from how it performed on other tracks.
But there's no denying that there is a lot of hype surrounding nordschleife times.
As others have said, there is a lot of inconsistency on the Ring. Drivers, conditions, time spent there, etc.
Want a perfect example? The RS4 managed a 7:54 with Frank Stippler behind the wheel (someone you've probably never heard of).
Now, are you going to sit behind your keyboard and tell me that the RS4's time is an indicator that it is faster than the 2nd gen CTS-V?
The V only managed a 7:59 btw.
Sorry you haven't noticed the 'Ring hype and that you clearly have a bit of sand in tight places tonight.
Last edited by DiscerningZ32; 01-23-2012 at 08:15 PM.
01-23-2012, 08:18 PM
#82
BOSS APPROVED!
Whoah there slugger, calm down.
Why don't you tell us how you really feel? lol
I'm not hating on this car, it is clearly very capable, just from how it performed on other tracks.
But there's no denying that there is a lot of hype surrounding nordschleife times.
As others have said, there is a lot of inconsistency on the Ring. Drivers, conditions, time spent there, etc.
Want a perfect example? The RS4 managed a 7:54 with Frank Stippler behind the wheel (someone you've probably never heard of).
Now, are you going to sit behind your keyboard and tell me that the RS4's time is an indicator that it is faster than the 2nd gen CTS-V?
The V only managed a 7:59 btw.
Sorry you haven't realized that and have a bit of sand in tight places.
Why don't you tell us how you really feel? lol
I'm not hating on this car, it is clearly very capable, just from how it performed on other tracks.
But there's no denying that there is a lot of hype surrounding nordschleife times.
As others have said, there is a lot of inconsistency on the Ring. Drivers, conditions, time spent there, etc.
Want a perfect example? The RS4 managed a 7:54 with Frank Stippler behind the wheel (someone you've probably never heard of).
Now, are you going to sit behind your keyboard and tell me that the RS4's time is an indicator that it is faster than the 2nd gen CTS-V?
The V only managed a 7:59 btw.
Sorry you haven't realized that and have a bit of sand in tight places.
01-23-2012, 08:18 PM
#83
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To the poster who said GM is the only one with a decent Ring driver, you couldn't be more wrong.
There is a plethora of superb nordschleife racers.
I suggest you look up the 24 hours of Nurburgring race.
There is a plethora of superb nordschleife racers.
I suggest you look up the 24 hours of Nurburgring race.
01-23-2012, 08:19 PM
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01-23-2012, 08:24 PM
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I don't know how you can jump to a conclusion like this when nobody has even tested the GT500 yet? You really don't know how much car it will actually be until it has been tested against some worthwhile competitors. I love watching GM's well-edited videos and segments hyping this car up, it's awesome, but at the end of the day it's just marketing, I don't personally feed into ALL of what they say about it. I'm saving my judgement for when the real comparison tests start to surface.
Both cars are impressive though and everyone should be proud of them. For the ZL1, well, I think the GT500 is going to pull away quick. My guess is the next year of the ZL1 will have more power.
01-23-2012, 08:56 PM
#86
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Since the "American way" is the 1/4 mile, it's just built in the American's car DNA to make the it JUST go fast straight, that's it. But when a company tries to make it an all-around performer, you say "Where am I gonna use it?".
Look at the Vette for instance, performance, comfort, great mpg, great trunk space. A ferrari beater for the fraction of the price BUT! A big BUT! The interior feels super cheap and the seats aren't up to par with it's competitors, and 100k vette has the same steering wheel as a cobalt. Yes, it's an amazing machine with minimal drawbacks, but it gives the magazines and the enthusiast something to complain at. Personally the interior is tolerable, but the steering wheel is just unacceptable, no excuse!
It's like when south-park did their NASCAR episode, and how Cartman was the stereo typical redneck and all the drivers were actually very professional and far from the redneck image. America is trying to not be the stereotypical "brick with a big engine" anymore, and personally I think there should be more support for it, not "When Am I gonna use that?" type of
Look at the Vette for instance, performance, comfort, great mpg, great trunk space. A ferrari beater for the fraction of the price BUT! A big BUT! The interior feels super cheap and the seats aren't up to par with it's competitors, and 100k vette has the same steering wheel as a cobalt. Yes, it's an amazing machine with minimal drawbacks, but it gives the magazines and the enthusiast something to complain at. Personally the interior is tolerable, but the steering wheel is just unacceptable, no excuse!
It's like when south-park did their NASCAR episode, and how Cartman was the stereo typical redneck and all the drivers were actually very professional and far from the redneck image. America is trying to not be the stereotypical "brick with a big engine" anymore, and personally I think there should be more support for it, not "When Am I gonna use that?" type of
01-23-2012, 08:58 PM
#87
Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords ran a test on it already. The 13 GT500 is due to be released in April 2012. They couldn't release the track times, but the editor said he estimates it should be capable of 11.6s @124-126. The new cars come with launch control, a 5.8L DOHC, 2.3L TVS, electronic shocks, etc... Should be pretty fast.
Both cars are impressive though and everyone should be proud of them. For the ZL1, well, I think the GT500 is going to pull away quick. My guess is the next year of the ZL1 will have more power.
Both cars are impressive though and everyone should be proud of them. For the ZL1, well, I think the GT500 is going to pull away quick. My guess is the next year of the ZL1 will have more power.
01-23-2012, 09:16 PM
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Look at the Vette for instance, performance, comfort, great mpg, great trunk space. A ferrari beater for the fraction of the price BUT! A big BUT! The interior feels super cheap and the seats aren't up to par with it's competitors, and 100k vette has the same steering wheel as a cobalt. Yes, it's an amazing machine with minimal drawbacks, but it gives the magazines and the enthusiast something to complain at. Personally the interior is tolerable, but the steering wheel is just unacceptable, no excuse!
01-23-2012, 10:16 PM
#90
Look at the Vette for instance, performance, comfort, great mpg, great trunk space. A ferrari beater for the fraction of the price BUT! A big BUT! The interior feels super cheap and the seats aren't up to par with it's competitors, and 100k vette has the same steering wheel as a cobalt. Yes, it's an amazing machine with minimal drawbacks, but it gives the magazines and the enthusiast something to complain at. Personally the interior is tolerable, but the steering wheel is just unacceptable, no excuse!
It's a cheap performance car, if it had nice interior, it would be an expensive performance car.
01-23-2012, 10:20 PM
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CTS-V has a very impressive interior... you can argue that Cadillac is the luxury car BUT you can't argue that 120k should be able to buy you a car without cutting corners.
01-23-2012, 10:49 PM
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I really really really doubt that the next corvette wont have a fantastic interior, and it'll still be the same price range (increase a couple of thousand, as do every generation of new vehicle that comes out).
01-23-2012, 11:19 PM
#95
You are not getting what I'm saying sir. I'm giving the vette constructive criticism, not bashing it. It's no secret that the vette is amazing performance wise, and it's also no secret that the vette has a much worse interior than the V and the Cobras. What part of "A 120k car should not have the same steering wheel as a 15k cobalt" is acceptable to you? The fact that it can do a fast 0-60? wrong! Doing one thing correct doesn't justify making some other part of a car half-***.
If I was buying a corvette, I wouldn't really care about the interior. I would care that it weighs nothing, make's obscene amounts of power, and handles like it's on rails.
Most people (including myself) think that the interior is junk in Corvette's, but what I'm saying is that the target audience for that car was meant for someone who wants to hang with Ferrari's in terms of performance whilst not paying the Ferrari premium.
01-23-2012, 11:56 PM
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There have been many changes in the 2013 GT500 that will make a positive difference in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The big difference is transmission and differential gearing selection.
1st gear in the T6060 was previously 2.97 from 2007-2012, the 2013 reduced that to 2.66
The 2013 also returns to the standard 3.31 rear differential gear ratio. This combination will allow the car to achieve 0-60 in first gear. Since the driver doesn't have to shift, 0-60 times will be faster.
The lack of aggressive gearing will improve the cars ability to use 1st gear with all of that power and torque. You have to remember, TVS blowers have the widest/flatest torque curve of all blowers. This car will have 90% of max torque at only 2,000 rpm. That was a lot for the previous cars to handle and why dig traction was such an issue with previous models. SVT aimed to change that, and I hope it makes the difference.
Other performance additions are a factory carbon fiber drive shaft, the new 5.8L engine that is a slightly modified 5.4L, the new factory 2.3L TVS, and of course the electronic suspension for handling.
1st gear in the T6060 was previously 2.97 from 2007-2012, the 2013 reduced that to 2.66
The 2013 also returns to the standard 3.31 rear differential gear ratio. This combination will allow the car to achieve 0-60 in first gear. Since the driver doesn't have to shift, 0-60 times will be faster.
The lack of aggressive gearing will improve the cars ability to use 1st gear with all of that power and torque. You have to remember, TVS blowers have the widest/flatest torque curve of all blowers. This car will have 90% of max torque at only 2,000 rpm. That was a lot for the previous cars to handle and why dig traction was such an issue with previous models. SVT aimed to change that, and I hope it makes the difference.
Other performance additions are a factory carbon fiber drive shaft, the new 5.8L engine that is a slightly modified 5.4L, the new factory 2.3L TVS, and of course the electronic suspension for handling.
01-24-2012, 01:46 AM
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There have been many changes in the 2013 GT500 that will make a positive difference in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The big difference is transmission and differential gearing selection.
1st gear in the T6060 was previously 2.97 from 2007-2012, the 2013 reduced that to 2.66
The 2013 also returns to the standard 3.31 rear differential gear ratio. This combination will allow the car to achieve 0-60 in first gear. Since the driver doesn't have to shift, 0-60 times will be faster.
The lack of aggressive gearing will improve the cars ability to use 1st gear with all of that power and torque. You have to remember, TVS blowers have the widest/flatest torque curve of all blowers. This car will have 90% of max torque at only 2,000 rpm. That was a lot for the previous cars to handle and why dig traction was such an issue with previous models. SVT aimed to change that, and I hope it makes the difference.
Other performance additions are a factory carbon fiber drive shaft, the new 5.8L engine that is a slightly modified 5.4L, the new factory 2.3L TVS, and of course the electronic suspension for handling.
1st gear in the T6060 was previously 2.97 from 2007-2012, the 2013 reduced that to 2.66
The 2013 also returns to the standard 3.31 rear differential gear ratio. This combination will allow the car to achieve 0-60 in first gear. Since the driver doesn't have to shift, 0-60 times will be faster.
The lack of aggressive gearing will improve the cars ability to use 1st gear with all of that power and torque. You have to remember, TVS blowers have the widest/flatest torque curve of all blowers. This car will have 90% of max torque at only 2,000 rpm. That was a lot for the previous cars to handle and why dig traction was such an issue with previous models. SVT aimed to change that, and I hope it makes the difference.
Other performance additions are a factory carbon fiber drive shaft, the new 5.8L engine that is a slightly modified 5.4L, the new factory 2.3L TVS, and of course the electronic suspension for handling.