TriShield

General Motors boss defends Aussie ‘orphan’



9 April 2012

By MARK FOGARTY in New York

HOLDEN’S orphaned Zeta large-car architecture still figures in General Motors’ global platform strategy, although its long-term future depends on maintaining sustainable volumes of Commodore-based exports from Australia.

Zeta’s place within GM’s rapid rationalisation of vehicles worldwide has been defended by the recovering auto giant’s North America president – and former GM Holden chief – Mark Reuss, who was adamant it was a global platform despite its limited application.

Speaking to GoAuto News at the New York International Auto Show, Mr Reuss also asserted that Holden’s unique Zeta rear-drive sedan architecture would continue as long as local and export sales supported it.

“It’s still a global rear-wheel drive architecture, so we leverage it on Camaro, we do lots of things,” he said. “I mean, you guys (Holden) still export things. There’s all that.

“I’m not sure that changes unless the market tells us to change it. If the market tells us to change it, we’ll change it.”

Mr Reuss, the former managing director and chairman of GM Holden who was promoted to run the reorganised parent company’s North American operations at the end of 2009, claimed he could not predict if the Commodore’s Zeta platform had a long future.

“I don’t know because the volume comes out of Australia, so you’d know the Australian economy more than I do right now,” he said. “And if the economy says that we’re going to keep making it, we’ll keep making it.”

Although Fishermans Bend was proclaimed as GM’s ‘home room’ for the design of rear-drive models, the only spin-off from Holden’s $1 billion development of the Zeta platform has been the reborn Chevrolet Camaro, which uses a modified Commodore architecture known as Zeta II.

Mr Reuss, who has championed the Commodore’s return to the North American market as a Chevrolet V8 performance sedan, was defensive about the status of the underutilised Zeta platform during a hurried on-the-move conversation.

To the contention that it was not a truly global platform, being made in only two locations primarily for local markets, he retorted: “Well, I don’t know. Zeta II, ah Camaros, are sold all over the world.”

He also bristled at the suggestion that the Camaro was a niche model: “I don’t know, we’re kicking *** with it!”

Mr Reuss maintained it did not matter that Zeta was not a high-volume global platform like Delta II, Epsilon II and Super Epsilon II, which underpin GM’s small, mid-size and latest large car models respectively.

“No, but so what?” he said. “I don’t care as long as… We’ve already paid for it, it’s all done.”

Once touted as spawning a global range of Commodore-based rear-drive sedans, the conventional wisdom is that the Zeta platform was sidelined during GM’s descent into Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2009.

But in a thinly veiled criticism of his Holden predecessors, Zeta architect Peter Hanenberger and Denny Mooney, who presided over the launch of the VE Commodore, Mr Reuss disputed the scope of the program.

“There was a whole bunch of stuff before I was there,” he said. “You know, before I got there, this was way oversold and (it was) really strange what was going on in terms of running a business and making architecture and car platform decisions, I’ll tell you that right now.

“Whoever was selling this oversold the hell out of it.”

Before the twin blows of the GFC and the surge in the value of Australian dollar, Elizabeth-built left-hand drive VE Commodores and WM long-wheelbase versions were sold in their tens of thousands in the US (as the Pontiac G8) and the Middle East (as the Chevrolet Lumina and Caprice).

Chevrolet-badged Caprices are exported in limited quantities to the Middle East and US, while a trickle of Caprice-based Buick Park Avenues are sent in CKD form to China.

Holden has admitted that the specialist, but potentially high-volume, Chevrolet Police Patrol Vehicle (PPV) program into North America is also struggling.

There is widespread speculation in the US that next year’s major VF Commodore upgrade will form the basis of a new Chevrolet SS rear-drive performance sedan.

According to multiple US industry sources, the Zeta architecture no longer figures in future GM large rear-wheel drive sedan planning, replaced by an extension of the Alpha platform introduced with the new BMW 3-Series-rivalling Cadillac ATS.

Alpha is also tipped to be the base of the next, sixth-generation Camaro, further indicating that Zeta will be left out in the cold.

Ironically, the Alpha platform is a Detroit development of the cutdown Zeta chassis designed by Holden for the mid-size Torana TT36 concept shown in 2004.

As GoAuto has reported, Holden has committed to a billion-dollar, 10-year local manufacturing program based on two all-new next-generation global vehicle architectures.

In announcing the plan last month, current Holden chief Mike Devereux made it clear that the Zeta platform underpinning Commodore “is not a global architecture per se” whereas the two new platforms to be built in Adelaide in the second half of the decade – one of which is expected to be the Delta-based Cruze – would be “built off global GM platforms”.

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

Lose a few hundred lbs please

Johnnystock

iTrader: (6)

TT36 stands for twin turbo 3.6, I wonder if the next gen Camaro, if its on the alpha platform, will have that option...would not be bad IMO.

http://www.holden.com.au/concept-cars/torana-tt36-

AronZ28

iTrader: (2)

AMEN!!!!! There is no reason why a Camaro SS convertible should weigh 4000+lbs. The old whale of a car Impala SS from the 90's was about 4250lbs with a full tank of gas.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Even your D-body Fleetwood, at a space shuttle-like 225+ inches of length and 78" wide, only weighs about 4400lbs. This is a car that can seat 6 people, has more cargo space than a modern wagon, and as much rear leg room as a Suburban. The trunk is so big that even a full-sized spare tire seems to get lost in it. It's got an iron V8 with iron heads, big chromed steel bumpers, and all metal body panels with a full steel frame.

The fact that any Camaro, even a convertible, can come within 300-400lbs of that weight disturbs me.....especially when it's 3 feet shorter. 5th gen Camaro is really not a big car, it's shorter than a 4th gen in fact. It just needs lighter materials I guess.

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

They just need a whole new idea is what they need.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

Fleetwood:
Zero airbags and accompanying wireing, sensors, charges
No 10 speaker stereo system with wiring and amps
The body structure above the frame is not nearly as sturdy as one may presume
Probably no rollover erequirement.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/racers-lo...vs-lemans.html

I agree that it is too heavy, but making the comparison between modern and old contruction just does not hold water.

gocartone

iTrader: (4)

Meh, my 2001 4X4 Dakota weighs in at under 4000lbs. Keeping a sports car under that mark should NOT be a problem, even with all the extra stuff in it!

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Check your sources. If you'd like, I could take a picture of the interior of my '96 Fleetwood that will show both a passenger and driver's side air bag.

The radio is AM/FM plus casset and CD. Also a power antenna with motor and wiring. Also heated seats and tons of insulation for a luxury-quiet ride.

What doesn't hold water are 190" cars that are weighing in around 4,000lbs. Like I said above, it's time for lighter weight materials.

AronZ28

iTrader: (2)

Post up a picture of your Caddy man!!! Here's mine:



I need to get some new pics, it has Impala SS wheels on it now and the windows are blacked out.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Very nice! Mine is the same color, but with a vinyl top and black interior. It has the stock 15" wheels (chrome version) and still wears it's original factory tires (only 29k miles). It's extremely dusty right now, it's been sitting in the garage untouched for many years. I tried to get it running last year, but the fuel is too old and needs to be drained at this point. The car is earmarked for a friend that's been wanting to buy it for a few years now but doesn't have the space yet.

AronZ28

iTrader: (2)

^ I thought mine was low miles with 51k on it when I bought it, 29k isn't even out of warranty yet lol.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

I was unaware the Cadillac called the mid 90's ones D-bodies still. I assumed they were B-bodies. I was thinking of late 60's early 70's Fleetwoods.

I agreed it is to heavy. No amount of materials will help the Zeta II Camaro. Base structure is just too heavy.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Ah, understood. I think a lot of people assume the '93-96 style Fleetwoods were B-bodies like the Impala/Caprice and Roadmaster, since they have a similar general appearance. But the B-bodies were only 214/215", vs. 225" for the D-body Fleetwood.

TriShield

This is a silly thing to parrot and it's done all the time. That vehicle was engineered over 15 years ago to vastly different crash and fuel economy regulations as well as a different purpose and consumer taste of that time.

The Camaro weighs what it does because of it's physical size and because it is engineered to keep occupants safe in a front, rear and side impact as well as having a roof that won't crush flat in a rollover. It is filled with airbags everywhere as well. And to keep it in a specific price target it is made out of the most affordable (and heaviest) material, steel.

With new regulations coming and coming fast vehicles may see another huge shift again. We are seeing it already with four cylinder powertrains being offered in almost everything short of a fullsize vehicle. Vehicle size may also shrink and vehicle pricing will also increase substantially as engineering new models to these standards are going to require more expensive material like aluminum, magnesium and so fourth.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Agreed. A quick look-up revealed that 2011+ Mustang GT is listed at about ~200lbs less than 2011+ Camaro SS. Their pricing, performance and external size is all extremely similar, and they both meet current safety/crash standards. Camaro needs to do better IMO, without turning to Aveo-sized external proportions or any jump in MSRP that mirrors Corvette.

gocartone

iTrader: (4)

The 370Z comes in at around 3200lbs and is priced about the same as the Mustang/Camaro. Sure, that doesn't have a backseat, but a backseat doesn't add 600+lbs.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

Zeta is highly variable platform from a 112 in wheelbase Camaro up to a 118 wheelbase Caprice. Camaro is 190 in long. Essentially Camaro is a lightly cut down G8. It gives up 2 inches of wheelbase and about the same length. Is the Camaro too heavy - absolutely. Is there a decent solution based on its chassis - absolutely not. Alpha is hopefully the answer.

370Z has a 100 in. whhelbase and is 167 in long.

gocartone

iTrader: (4)

I know the 370Z is much smaller, but that's how the Camaro/Mustang should be. They are sports cars, not high-horsepower family cars. For how big and how much they weigh you would think you could at least fit a full size person in the backseat with more than enough leg room, but that's not the case.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

I agree they should be lighter. The point I try to make is this car will never be super light. The weight is in the chassis. The "just take 400 lbs off it" comments are maddening, and just beating a dead horse. If you ran an all carbon fiber body on this car you couldn't take 400 lbs of of it. The chassis is a modular platform designed for large cars. It got used because it was the only cost effecient rwd chassis available, as Camaro could not be a stand alone project. Ultimately, we just have to hope an Alpha based Camaro will be the car we all really want it to be.