unit213

Edmunds results...really? Maybe we should rely on Car & Driver too.
Keep reading magazines and the internet.

88blackgt

The Camaro marketing team told them Ring times and handling were important so now that's the end-all.

1ltcap

just outta curiousity, did these guys actually take these cars to any sort of track? or are they assuming that because the camaro is .05 better on the skidpad that it'll destroy the shelby?

TriShield

I will, thanks.

zz4camaro1980

It is hilarious, anyone who defends a car with 580hp is now a ricer simply because the same car can also handle?

Ive said it before, but FWD platforms arent exactly known for their handling capabilities either... its a retarded analogy all around.

Now that I am done playing devils advocate... I do agree though, 1/4 mile times do mean more to me than handling capabilities (to an extent, of course). I guarantee I would be more than happy with the GT500s handling on the street.
*EDIT- That is to say, on the street I am guessing I am not a good enough driver to notice a difference (as if I could ever own either, haha).

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

In the Edmunds article they basically did a chase and the ZL1 consitently pulled away. Same drivers, same day, same cars. Just what everyone wants.

I would like to comment on this whole short track/long track discussion. Judging a road course bbased on straightaways for these to cars is meaningless. You must consider the speed delta's at all points of the track. Let's assume you have a long curveed section at 1000ft of length and a ZL1 maintains a 4mph advantage, followed by a straightaway where the GT-500 maintains a 3mph advanatge, then you would have a net win for the ZL1 over that sector. Cornering speed can be huge. If a cars exit speed is significantly higher than another, any straightaway advantage could be negated by the need to first get to the speed, that the better cornering car has already achieved.

I am just saying it is a much more complex situation than it is being made. Can a GT-500 make up 3 mph (totally arbitrary) on acceleration from 100-150 mph on a given straight, and then produce enough of an advantage to make any gains. Corner speed is always most critical on any road course.

I am not saying that a GT-500 won't win on a longer road course, or that a ZL1 would on a tighter one (although braking and handling will be even more critical here). I am saying it is way too complex to make a blanket statement.

1ltcap

part of what i've been using for that reasoning, is a friend that's run his viper at pocono.
there was a turbo'd neon there. he walked the dood very easily on the straights, but when it came time to turn, that neon was sucked right up on his bumper.
those two weren't even close on power, otherwise the neon would've stayed close in the straights.
with these two being close, i still think short tracks will go to the zl, and longer ones will go to the shelby.

also note in the road racing series where camaro competes against mustang, it is very closely matched, but the mustang generally does better. even with the camaro being a bit lighter.

409CISecondGen

iTrader: (2)

Didn't realize you could magically make an argument weak simply by declaring it so. I provided evidence of several Cobra owners who payed 37K new and you simply brush it off as "weak."

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

Thing about the Viper/Neon situation is a wide disparity in power/weight/brakes/driver. The ZL1/GT-500 are extremely similar cars. Again, not saying the GT-500 won't dominate a longer course. However, the types of turns may make a huge difference despite the length of track/straightaway. These cars are so close that I would most often bet on the superior handling vehicle in mst road course scenarios. As I stated before, we just do not know. If the corner speed delta's are not skewed enough in the Zl1's favor to overcome a deficiency in the straightaway delta's, then it will lose. The best part about superior handling is that you carry more exit speed, which given or assumption, means that the GT-500 would actually have to catch up on speed/mat/and then exceed on ever straightaway. We just don't have enough information to make a reliable statement.

As for the race cars, class rules mess with weight, air restrictors, and who knows what else; and is probably not meaningful to a discussion of these road cars.

1ltcap

yea, good points on the shelbys.

the class rules messed with them a lot i think. last year, the camaros struggled a LOT, till they got grand am to allow a different spoiler. that made them VERY competitive, and it was fun to watch the top camaro/mustang constantly trading places.
last year, the mustangs had intake restrictors, while the camaros didn't. this year, they've both got em.
porsche has come back, now that they have an engine to play with, and has been beating up on both ford and chevy. the beemers are doing pretty good too......and multimatic switched to astom martin. beautiful car, but not being very competitive.....

firebird99

iTrader: (2)

I love the fact that the ZL1 was said to be the best all around car yet you guys still revert back to straight line speed and power. Guess you gt500 fan boys are having a hard time with the fact that it lost this comparison? No one ever said the GT500 wasn't faster but Chevy did do alot to make this car handle well and go fast in a straight line albeit not as fast as a GT500 but any car with 4200 pounds that can click 11's stock is fast and you can't deny that not matter what camp you stand behind. For the guys that get stuck on the Hp and 1320 times I guess you guys roll around in stripped out race cars right?

adamantium

iTrader: (3)

The cars alright but like i said, you can't compare the ZL1 with the GT500. The GT500 is on another level. I can see someone preferring the ZL1 over the GT500 only if A. They are GM fan boys or B. If they are going to be at the track every week. Lets be serious here though 1/10 people on here go to the track enough to justify the tiny marginal difference between the two on the track. People on here are such nut hugging GM fan boys. That they wont let this die already. Ford decimated GM this year.


Funny you say ricer, you are aware that japan has always had superior handling cars than the U.S right? So saying that the ZL1 is AWESOME because it handles great and then saying japanesse or hondas are ricer then it just shows how retarded you are.

Have you ever owned a civic? have you ever owned a FWD car and taken turns with it? Im not sure if your aware but there are NA civics out there at the track destroying vipers/corvettes and other high end cars. So saying a FWD CANT handle is just a retarded opinion if obviously there are other out there doing work with them at the track.

firebird99

iTrader: (2)

Like I said you can't comprehend the fact that Hp and et's aren't everything. You further prove that buy saying people that buy the ZL1 are either fan boys or track queens is plan ignorant. It's a great all around car that is very capable to do anything you want as does the GT500 but it's seems based of this comparison that the ZL1 is better why can't you accept that? Maybe your to much of a fanboy to see the truth.....

gocartone

iTrader: (4)

It's weak because I can find owners that got them under MSRP and GTO owners that paid over. You can't take the highest from one and lowest from the other to make a comparison, that's like comparing a poor drivers time in one car to a good driver in the others. My bolt-on Formula was faster than C6Z06s because I was beating a 2007 Z06 that ran high 13s/low 14s all day at the track. Would that be a fair argument? No, it would be a really shitty one.

You are saying that like the GT500 is a ****-poor handling car, when in reality it is only a little behind the ZL1. How many guys on this forum would use 100% of what either car was capable of in cornering ability on the streets? Now, how many are going to go WOT with them? We aren't talking about a Formula One car being compared to a top fuel drag car, BOTH cars handle very good and are VERY close to each other in that department, one just happens to kick the others *** when the throttle is mashed

99FRC

iTrader: (5)

...as he posts his opinion on the Internet. Lol! j/k!

MI-Z/28

No argument there, but it's not really a fair comparison either. The Cobra was also a $34k vehicle. The Z28 was a $23k vehicle in 2002. You would have to get a fully optioned out 35th anniversary edition SS to come close to the price of the Cobra. A much better comparison would be the '03-'04 Mach 1 or the 2003-2010 GT.

firebird99

iTrader: (2)

Sorry but you sir are wrong yet again I've never once said the GT500 is bad handling car but you will find post where Ive said it will handle better then most people think and is in no way a one trick pony but it's apparently it's not as refined as the first year ZL1 and ford has had what 5-6 years sounds like Chevy may have been short on power but that's about it.

A 4th gen fbody would ruin the day of any mustang gt from 93 until the new 5.0 and the only way ford beat it was to throw a supercharger (03-04) on it case closed.We had our fun it's time to let them have there's lets just hope we don't have to wait as long as they did.....lol

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

if handling isn't a factor why did ford make a gt500 handle better?



they must've been in contact with someone at honda.



some of us need to get out of the 60s.

MI-Z/28

I'm tired of the handling argument. The GT500's handling capabilities are well beyond what I or 90% of everyone else can take advantage of. I think for most people the GT500 is the better performer. Stop light to stop light and passing on the highways and county roads are where the vast majority of us will take advantage of a vehicle's performance. I don't need the ability to take a hairpin turn at 100mph on shitty public roads. Much better chance of wreaking my car trying to be a canyon carver than straight line sprints.

ULTIMATEORANGESS

iTrader: (4)

and a zl1 has enough power for more than 90% than most need but who cares. if you drive like an idiot you'll wreck regardless.

i prefer straight line performance also but i also like a car that handles well. it makes driving more enjoyable.