Motor Trend Puts The ZL1 & GT500 to The Test!
07-07-2012 | 10:39 AM
#122
Douchebag On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Indianapolis, IN
I8UE4RD - the blower on the ZL1 isn't a similar size, it's much smaller and runs less boost. The TVS blower in the GT500 is basically the same blower used in the 640hp ZR1. Much closer in power.
07-07-2012 | 01:19 PM
#123
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 206
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so here seems to be the dilemma with the new ZL an the GT5
To Ford ----Subject - GT500----how can you have bigger brakes and less weight than the ZL1 and still have fade like that....did you not track test the thing enough to even notice?
To GM----Subject----ZL1-- How can the ZL1 be equipped with a 6.2L vs the Gt500's 5.8 liter with a similar sized blower, and still be making a whopping 80-95rwhp less.
Id say out of the two dilemmas , that ford has a much easier question to answer on there hands, and less pride to be hurt.
It seems to me, that somewhere along the line, someone did not stress test those brakes, and someone had no clue how much power an LS engine is capable of tolerating. I mean 5.3 Junkyard motors out there pushing well over 600 at the wheels pass after pass, and holding, and this flagship motor is being treated like an old lady in a retirement home right out of the box. I detect a lack of faith on the engineers part, but the thing is.......itll hold.
Solution.....GM needs to unleash that 6.2L crank up that boost, and put it on a diet.....DO SOMETHING!
Ford.....just needs to keep doing what they are doing because its awesome. They dont sit around and wait 5-7 years to redesign the car damn near entirely. Hopefully the new vette will raise the bar high enough to allow gm to build the camaros with enough power to haul that fat *** around.
To Ford ----Subject - GT500----how can you have bigger brakes and less weight than the ZL1 and still have fade like that....did you not track test the thing enough to even notice?
To GM----Subject----ZL1-- How can the ZL1 be equipped with a 6.2L vs the Gt500's 5.8 liter with a similar sized blower, and still be making a whopping 80-95rwhp less.
Id say out of the two dilemmas , that ford has a much easier question to answer on there hands, and less pride to be hurt.
It seems to me, that somewhere along the line, someone did not stress test those brakes, and someone had no clue how much power an LS engine is capable of tolerating. I mean 5.3 Junkyard motors out there pushing well over 600 at the wheels pass after pass, and holding, and this flagship motor is being treated like an old lady in a retirement home right out of the box. I detect a lack of faith on the engineers part, but the thing is.......itll hold.
Solution.....GM needs to unleash that 6.2L crank up that boost, and put it on a diet.....DO SOMETHING!
Ford.....just needs to keep doing what they are doing because its awesome. They dont sit around and wait 5-7 years to redesign the car damn near entirely. Hopefully the new vette will raise the bar high enough to allow gm to build the camaros with enough power to haul that fat *** around.
07-07-2012 | 02:23 PM
#125
***Repost Police***
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: DFW, TX
This post is full of fail.
07-07-2012 | 02:40 PM
#126
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,801
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From: St.Charles MO
You have to consider things like pad life and cost as well, these are street cars, not race cars.
To GM----Subject----ZL1-- How can the ZL1 be equipped with a 6.2L vs the Gt500's 5.8 liter with a similar sized blower, and still be making a whopping 80-95rwhp less.
Id say out of the two dilemmas , that ford has a much easier question to answer on there hands, and less pride to be hurt.
It seems to me, that somewhere along the line, someone did not stress test those brakes, and someone had no clue how much power an LS engine is capable of tolerating. I mean 5.3 Junkyard motors out there pushing well over 600 at the wheels pass after pass, and holding, and this flagship motor is being treated like an old lady in a retirement home right out of the box. I detect a lack of faith on the engineers part, but the thing is.......itll hold.
Id say out of the two dilemmas , that ford has a much easier question to answer on there hands, and less pride to be hurt.
It seems to me, that somewhere along the line, someone did not stress test those brakes, and someone had no clue how much power an LS engine is capable of tolerating. I mean 5.3 Junkyard motors out there pushing well over 600 at the wheels pass after pass, and holding, and this flagship motor is being treated like an old lady in a retirement home right out of the box. I detect a lack of faith on the engineers part, but the thing is.......itll hold.
NO manufacturer maxes their engines out, especially GM, they are known for holding back a lot. Has nothing to do with reliability, knowledge or "faith" - its cost and not stepping on the toes of their flag ship car the Corvette. Its been like this since 1953. Why do you think the exact same Fbody LS1 was rated lower then the Corvette LS1, although both dynoed equally?
Solution.....GM needs to unleash that 6.2L crank up that boost, and put it on a diet.....DO SOMETHING!
Ford.....just needs to keep doing what they are doing because its awesome. They dont sit around and wait 5-7 years to redesign the car damn near entirely.
Ford.....just needs to keep doing what they are doing because its awesome. They dont sit around and wait 5-7 years to redesign the car damn near entirely.
At first GM didn't plan on bringing back the Camaro, when they decided to they used the global Zeta chassis which started being produced in '06 for aussie cars. From there they had to convince the bean counters, then design the car around the chassis, and do extensive testing. Its not like they were just sitting around and then finally decided to produce it.
07-07-2012 | 04:03 PM
#127
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From: NJ
There are more to brakes then size. Something as simple as a pad change could completely get rid of the fade and improve overall stopping power.
You have to consider things like pad life and cost as well, these are street cars, not race cars.
How are people still posting things like this seriously???
NO manufacturer maxes their engines out, especially GM, they are known for holding back a lot. Has nothing to do with reliability, knowledge or "faith" - its cost and not stepping on the toes of their flag ship car the Corvette. Its been like this since 1953. Why do you think the exact same Fbody LS1 was rated lower then the Corvette LS1, although both dynoed equally?
Another amazing comment...
At first GM didn't plan on bringing back the Camaro, when they decided to they used the global Zeta chassis which started being produced in '06 for aussie cars. From there they had to convince the bean counters, then design the car around the chassis, and do extensive testing. Its not like they were just sitting around and then finally decided to produce it.
You have to consider things like pad life and cost as well, these are street cars, not race cars.
How are people still posting things like this seriously???
NO manufacturer maxes their engines out, especially GM, they are known for holding back a lot. Has nothing to do with reliability, knowledge or "faith" - its cost and not stepping on the toes of their flag ship car the Corvette. Its been like this since 1953. Why do you think the exact same Fbody LS1 was rated lower then the Corvette LS1, although both dynoed equally?
Another amazing comment...
At first GM didn't plan on bringing back the Camaro, when they decided to they used the global Zeta chassis which started being produced in '06 for aussie cars. From there they had to convince the bean counters, then design the car around the chassis, and do extensive testing. Its not like they were just sitting around and then finally decided to produce it.
and then for a split moment, they considered bringing the camaro home, but decided that canadian jobs were more important than american jobs.
07-07-2012 | 06:37 PM
#128
07-07-2012 | 09:31 PM
#129
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From: NJ
i made that comment, because to be honest i am insulted that they chose to continue to build the camaro outside of the country. it is supposed to be americas premier muscle car. it should be built in america. period.
and yes, if ford built the mustang in canada or mexico, i'd probably be just as insulted....and may not have bought it, as it being americas other premier muscle car should be built in america too.
07-07-2012 | 09:45 PM
#130
as a matter of fact i am.
i made that comment, because to be honest i am insulted that they chose to continue to build the camaro outside of the country. it is supposed to be americas premier muscle car. it should be built in america. period.
and yes, if ford built the mustang in canada or mexico, i'd probably be just as insulted....and may not have bought it, as it being americas other premier muscle car should be built in america too.
i made that comment, because to be honest i am insulted that they chose to continue to build the camaro outside of the country. it is supposed to be americas premier muscle car. it should be built in america. period.
and yes, if ford built the mustang in canada or mexico, i'd probably be just as insulted....and may not have bought it, as it being americas other premier muscle car should be built in america too.
07-07-2012 | 09:53 PM
#131
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From: NJ
i don't care if it's 40, or 400. from what i recall reading, they had considered bringing camaro's production back here. after the bail out. that would've put about 3,000 people directly to work, and countless others in the support network.
instead of using our tax money to put AMERICANS back to work, they chose to use it to keep canadians employed. THAT is why i have a problem with it. i don't care if parts come from other countries.....we're stuck with that. i wish it weren't that way, but it is what it is. but building the camaro in canada is as bad(in my eyes) as building the corvette in china. it shouldn't be, and it isn't right. not that i don't like canada, but if it's us or them, then i care about us.
07-08-2012 | 01:10 AM
#132
07-08-2012 | 08:35 AM
#133
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,801
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From: St.Charles MO
"Officially, GM wanted to tear down the plant because of their belief the property was more valuable as a vacant lot than a 2.1 million square-foot plant, much too large for just about any use other than a high-production vehicle factory. Keep in mind, however, that the plant also had a mandate that it would be the sole source for Camaros and Firebirds. It now begins to come into focus that any comment on a future Camaro or Firebird prior to the plant's disposal, via sale or demolition, perhaps could very well create a situation where GM would be compelled to keep the plant. From a legal perspective, it might be construed that any future car that carried the name Camaro or Firebird would have to be made at this plant, at least till 2017, the year all Canadian government loans are to be repaid."
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...aro/index.html
07-08-2012 | 11:49 AM
#136
just for informational purposes camaros have more american parts content than mustangs.
http://wot.motortrend.com/top-cars-n...ent-67627.html
but while there were good reasons GM has 5th gens built in canada id rather it be built here also. but US and canada work closely together and help support each other.
http://wot.motortrend.com/top-cars-n...ent-67627.html
but while there were good reasons GM has 5th gens built in canada id rather it be built here also. but US and canada work closely together and help support each other.
07-08-2012 | 01:43 PM
#137
i don't care if it's 40, or 400. from what i recall reading, they had considered bringing camaro's production back here. after the bail out. that would've put about 3,000 people directly to work, and countless others in the support network.
instead of using our tax money to put AMERICANS back to work, they chose to use it to keep canadians employed. THAT is why i have a problem with it. i don't care if parts come from other countries.....we're stuck with that. i wish it weren't that way, but it is what it is. but building the camaro in canada is as bad(in my eyes) as building the corvette in china. it shouldn't be, and it isn't right. not that i don't like canada, but if it's us or them, then i care about us.
instead of using our tax money to put AMERICANS back to work, they chose to use it to keep canadians employed. THAT is why i have a problem with it. i don't care if parts come from other countries.....we're stuck with that. i wish it weren't that way, but it is what it is. but building the camaro in canada is as bad(in my eyes) as building the corvette in china. it shouldn't be, and it isn't right. not that i don't like canada, but if it's us or them, then i care about us.
As a Canadian, with no bad feelings for my southern neighbours whatsoever, I am astonished at the lack of knowledge and education when it comes to our trade partnerships, one so complex that petty vehicles rank very low on the scale of importance. Trust me when I tell you 3000 jobs aren't going to fix your economy any time soon!
07-08-2012 | 04:40 PM
#138
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,801
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From: St.Charles MO
Seriously? Thats what you got out of that?
I guess I need to be more specific...
any future car that carried the name Camaro or Firebird would have to be made at this plant, at least till 2017
If they want to use the "Camaro" name, the car has to be made there.
I guess I need to be more specific...
any future car that carried the name Camaro or Firebird would have to be made at this plant, at least till 2017
If they want to use the "Camaro" name, the car has to be made there.
07-08-2012 | 06:40 PM
#139
They where bound buy a contract to build the cars there until a set date but when they stopped making the f-body twins they had no plans of bringing them back so when/if they did they either had to wait until the terms of the contract where fulfilled or past said date so GM had no choice but to build it there or pay out the *** in a lawsuit. As much as it sucks to see it built else where it really doesn't matter since all automobile companies build different cars all over the world not just in there country. At the end of the day just be glad we still have the stang and have back the camaro to have these arguments over.
07-09-2012 | 09:14 AM
#140
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From: NJ
i fully understand they all build em all over the place. that doesn't mean i hafta like it though. wonder what kind of can o worms i'd open up if i said that i thought that NAFTA was the beginning of the end for this country.
that all said, what you guys are missing, is that i LIKE the camaro. i just happen to like the mustang a little better. that's a large part of why it pisses me off so badly that it's not built at home.....and that they went down under for the chassis. chevy's better than that.
that all said, what you guys are missing, is that i LIKE the camaro. i just happen to like the mustang a little better. that's a large part of why it pisses me off so badly that it's not built at home.....and that they went down under for the chassis. chevy's better than that.