Commodore heads for US car market
01-11-2007, 12:43 PM
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Commodore heads for US car market Commodore heads for US car market
Joshua Dowling, Detroit, The Sydney Morning Herald, 09/01/07
General Motors let the cat out of the bag early at the Detroit motor show when it announced that Holden's VE Commodore SS would be exported to America, reports JOSHUA DOWLING.
Commodore: will be sold as a Pontiac.
Australia's biggest-selling car, the Holden Commodore, will be exported to the United States, it was unofficially confirmed at the Detroit motor show last night.
The announcement was not due to be made until next month's Chicago motor show. But the worldwide head of product development for General Motors, Bob Lutz, gave away more than he was supposed to during a press conference.
Just minutes after Holden officials refused to answer questions about the Commodore's export program, Mr Lutz revealed details about the deal.
The Commodore SS, a V8-powered sports sedan, will be sold as a Pontiac from late this year or early next year.
Holden expects to export 30,000 Commodores annually, about half what it sells locally.
"We are seriously planning to import a lot of Commodore SS sedans as Pontiac G8s," Mr Lutz said, adding that Holden could export up to 50,000 Commodores a year if the model was priced correctly.
Mr Lutz said the export of the Holden Monaro as a Pontiac GTO from 2003 to 2006 (during which 40,000 of the V8 coupes were sold) brought Holden's expertise to the attention of its parent company, General Motors in North America.
"We are yet to officially announce it," Mr Lutz said of the Commodore export deal, once he realised he had made a faux pas. He eventually admitted that selling the V8 version of the Commodore in the US was a logical thing to do as it filled a void in Pontiac's line-up.
"While (the Monaro's) export program may not have fulfilled all of our hopes and dreams in terms of profitability and volume, it did break the ice on global programs."
The export deal comes at a crucial time for the Commodore. It has been Australia's biggest-selling car for 11 years but sales are at a 16-year low as imports flood Australia.
Holden already exports to the Middle East five times as many Statesmans as it sells locally and exports are increasingly being viewed as a key to the Commodore's survival.
Sales of large, locally made sedans were at a 16-year low in 2006 as buyers embraced small cars.
Last year, sales of the Ford Falcon were their lowest since the late 1960s. Ford is yet to announce an export deal but an updated Falcon due in March 2008 will have the capability to be built in left-hand drive.
When Holden developed the new Commodore, released last August, it did so with American regulations in mind. This has made the transformation from a Commodore to a Pontiac relatively simple.
Joshua Dowling, Detroit, The Sydney Morning Herald, 09/01/07
General Motors let the cat out of the bag early at the Detroit motor show when it announced that Holden's VE Commodore SS would be exported to America, reports JOSHUA DOWLING.
Commodore: will be sold as a Pontiac.
Australia's biggest-selling car, the Holden Commodore, will be exported to the United States, it was unofficially confirmed at the Detroit motor show last night.
The announcement was not due to be made until next month's Chicago motor show. But the worldwide head of product development for General Motors, Bob Lutz, gave away more than he was supposed to during a press conference.
Just minutes after Holden officials refused to answer questions about the Commodore's export program, Mr Lutz revealed details about the deal.
The Commodore SS, a V8-powered sports sedan, will be sold as a Pontiac from late this year or early next year.
Holden expects to export 30,000 Commodores annually, about half what it sells locally.
"We are seriously planning to import a lot of Commodore SS sedans as Pontiac G8s," Mr Lutz said, adding that Holden could export up to 50,000 Commodores a year if the model was priced correctly.
Mr Lutz said the export of the Holden Monaro as a Pontiac GTO from 2003 to 2006 (during which 40,000 of the V8 coupes were sold) brought Holden's expertise to the attention of its parent company, General Motors in North America.
"We are yet to officially announce it," Mr Lutz said of the Commodore export deal, once he realised he had made a faux pas. He eventually admitted that selling the V8 version of the Commodore in the US was a logical thing to do as it filled a void in Pontiac's line-up.
"While (the Monaro's) export program may not have fulfilled all of our hopes and dreams in terms of profitability and volume, it did break the ice on global programs."
The export deal comes at a crucial time for the Commodore. It has been Australia's biggest-selling car for 11 years but sales are at a 16-year low as imports flood Australia.
Holden already exports to the Middle East five times as many Statesmans as it sells locally and exports are increasingly being viewed as a key to the Commodore's survival.
Sales of large, locally made sedans were at a 16-year low in 2006 as buyers embraced small cars.
Last year, sales of the Ford Falcon were their lowest since the late 1960s. Ford is yet to announce an export deal but an updated Falcon due in March 2008 will have the capability to be built in left-hand drive.
When Holden developed the new Commodore, released last August, it did so with American regulations in mind. This has made the transformation from a Commodore to a Pontiac relatively simple.
01-11-2007, 01:05 PM
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the article states "Mid 25 grand" which is a smokin deal!
Here's the article:
Commodore to become a Pontiac
Paul Gover
January 09, 2007 12:00am
THE Holden Commodore is cocked, locked and loaded for the US.
Australia's favourite car will be exported across the Pacific from 2008 to join the Pontiac line-up with General Motors in a $1.5 billion deal.
As many as 50,000 cars a year will be shipped.
The SS Commodore will be called the Pontiac G8, and will be priced in the mid-$25,000 range.
It will get some minor cosmetic and safety changes for US motorists.
GM's vice-chairman of production development Bob Lutz said the move was logical.
"We're seriously looking to import a lot of Commodore SSs in the guise of the Pontiac G8. Let's see how that goes," he said at the Detroit Motor Show yesterday.
"It's such a logical thing to do. The volume range is 30,000 to 50,000. It depends a little bit on how we price it."
Mr Lutz, who helped put the Holden Monaro into the Pontiac family as the GTO coupe, stopped just short of full confirmation of the significant export deal.
But he said full details would be revealed next month at the Chicago Auto Show.
"We haven't fully announced it. We have yet to make an official announcement," Mr Lutz said. "Much more will be revealed at the Chicago show."
Mr Lutz and GM Holden's chairman, Denny Mooney, outlined a plan that has been brewing since the early days of development of the VE Commodore.
It was designed with left-hand drive and export potential in the Middle East and China.
But the big objective was always to get the car into the US and to learn from the lessons of the Monaro deal, which never worked as well as hoped.
"While the GTO program might not have fulfilled all our hopes and dreams in terms of profitability, it did break the ice on global programs," Mr Lutz said.
"With the GTO we made a bit of a mistake.
"The deterioration in profitability through the appreciation of the Australian dollar, we passed on to the customer.
"It gets to be an oxygen-deprived environment. This time we're going to try very hard to keep the vehicle in the mid-$20,000s."
The VE Commodore will be the third major Australian export program to the US, following the Monaro and the Ford Capri convertible in the early 1990s.
The Capri failed partly because of quality problems and partly because of its price, but mostly because it ran head-on into the very successful Mazda MX-5.
It will allow GM Holden to challenge Toyota for export leadership in Australia, as its rival ships about 70,000 Camrys each year, mostly to the Middle East. Mitsubishi has much smaller export deals with the 380, and Ford also sends a limited number of Falcons and Territories overseas.
But Ford Australia has high hopes for the next all-new Falcon, timed for 2008, and will be engineering it with left-hand drive for the first time.
Here's the article:
Commodore to become a Pontiac
Paul Gover
January 09, 2007 12:00am
THE Holden Commodore is cocked, locked and loaded for the US.
Australia's favourite car will be exported across the Pacific from 2008 to join the Pontiac line-up with General Motors in a $1.5 billion deal.
As many as 50,000 cars a year will be shipped.
The SS Commodore will be called the Pontiac G8, and will be priced in the mid-$25,000 range.
It will get some minor cosmetic and safety changes for US motorists.
GM's vice-chairman of production development Bob Lutz said the move was logical.
"We're seriously looking to import a lot of Commodore SSs in the guise of the Pontiac G8. Let's see how that goes," he said at the Detroit Motor Show yesterday.
"It's such a logical thing to do. The volume range is 30,000 to 50,000. It depends a little bit on how we price it."
Mr Lutz, who helped put the Holden Monaro into the Pontiac family as the GTO coupe, stopped just short of full confirmation of the significant export deal.
But he said full details would be revealed next month at the Chicago Auto Show.
"We haven't fully announced it. We have yet to make an official announcement," Mr Lutz said. "Much more will be revealed at the Chicago show."
Mr Lutz and GM Holden's chairman, Denny Mooney, outlined a plan that has been brewing since the early days of development of the VE Commodore.
It was designed with left-hand drive and export potential in the Middle East and China.
But the big objective was always to get the car into the US and to learn from the lessons of the Monaro deal, which never worked as well as hoped.
"While the GTO program might not have fulfilled all our hopes and dreams in terms of profitability, it did break the ice on global programs," Mr Lutz said.
"With the GTO we made a bit of a mistake.
"The deterioration in profitability through the appreciation of the Australian dollar, we passed on to the customer.
"It gets to be an oxygen-deprived environment. This time we're going to try very hard to keep the vehicle in the mid-$20,000s."
The VE Commodore will be the third major Australian export program to the US, following the Monaro and the Ford Capri convertible in the early 1990s.
The Capri failed partly because of quality problems and partly because of its price, but mostly because it ran head-on into the very successful Mazda MX-5.
It will allow GM Holden to challenge Toyota for export leadership in Australia, as its rival ships about 70,000 Camrys each year, mostly to the Middle East. Mitsubishi has much smaller export deals with the 380, and Ford also sends a limited number of Falcons and Territories overseas.
But Ford Australia has high hopes for the next all-new Falcon, timed for 2008, and will be engineering it with left-hand drive for the first time.
01-11-2007, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Reckless
Wonder what pricing will be like. It's a good alternative to the CTS-V probably.
01-11-2007, 04:46 PM
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Damn i need to get a better job i want one. Ever since i looked at the Motor Trend article that said there was a possibility of it coming over i have wanted it. Now i guess things are looking up.
-Joel
-Joel
01-11-2007, 10:00 PM
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The theory of alpha numberic nameplates is that advertising dollars are more effective...with alpha numberic (sp) nameplates..
Thats the hype...Can't say if its true or not...
Just the marketing reason for alpha numeric nameplates.
Thats the hype...Can't say if its true or not...
Just the marketing reason for alpha numeric nameplates.
Trending Topics
01-11-2007, 11:26 PM
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You know we've himmed and hawed about Australian design for quite a while, saying thing s like "Why don't they give us designs like this?"--Sounds like they've figured something out. I wonder if more of this will come... say from Ford in desperate attempt (maybe after it crash and burns) to junk their hideous new Focus? I'm really pleased to see a base sticker price around 25k--that's really a good thing.. as long as it STAYS around 25k. This is some very promising news I'd say.
01-12-2007, 02:42 PM
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$25,000 my ***. The G8 will effectively replace the Grand Prix and the recently discontinued Bonneville. Yah $25,000... for what a rolling chassis? 
At best that'll buy you a 3.6L base car. Expect an LS2 car to base for 30k-32k and figure one fully loaded for anywhere from 36-40k. I know the current Grand Prix GXP bases for just under 30k but figure the G8 will be slightly larger, move slightly upmarket and be positioned to go head to head with the Charger and IMO GM would have to increase the price at least a couple grand. An SRT-8 which comes almost fully loaded bases for $38,700 so I figure a well equipped LS2 G8 will go for a grand or so under that.
Keep in mind that GM is also planning to use Zeta to underpin the next Impala. That means that if you're planning on shopping around for a stripper 4 door LS2 for just under 30k your best bet will be a Chevy and not a Poncho. Both cars are slated to be underpinned by the same platform so obviously the Pontiac will be the more expensive of the two. Keeping in mind that both of these new Zeta cars will be vastly superior to the current FWD W-Bodies and pack more expensive hardware it seems highly unlikely that you'll be able to drive off of a lot with a $25,000 LS2 with 4 doors. And even if that were possible there's no way in hell the Pontiac version would go for that low a price. That would mean base LS2 Impalas would have to sell for 23.5-24kish. The cheapest 4 door LS2 you'll be able to buy will be a stripper Impala and even then I say no less than 28k IF you're lucky.
The people have demanded 4 door RWD LS2s and GM is answering the call by bringing Zeta stateside but you can't have it both ways guys. You can't pay W-Body prices for tricked out LS2s.
At best that'll buy you a 3.6L base car. Expect an LS2 car to base for 30k-32k and figure one fully loaded for anywhere from 36-40k. I know the current Grand Prix GXP bases for just under 30k but figure the G8 will be slightly larger, move slightly upmarket and be positioned to go head to head with the Charger and IMO GM would have to increase the price at least a couple grand. An SRT-8 which comes almost fully loaded bases for $38,700 so I figure a well equipped LS2 G8 will go for a grand or so under that. Keep in mind that GM is also planning to use Zeta to underpin the next Impala. That means that if you're planning on shopping around for a stripper 4 door LS2 for just under 30k your best bet will be a Chevy and not a Poncho. Both cars are slated to be underpinned by the same platform so obviously the Pontiac will be the more expensive of the two. Keeping in mind that both of these new Zeta cars will be vastly superior to the current FWD W-Bodies and pack more expensive hardware it seems highly unlikely that you'll be able to drive off of a lot with a $25,000 LS2 with 4 doors. And even if that were possible there's no way in hell the Pontiac version would go for that low a price. That would mean base LS2 Impalas would have to sell for 23.5-24kish. The cheapest 4 door LS2 you'll be able to buy will be a stripper Impala and even then I say no less than 28k IF you're lucky.
The people have demanded 4 door RWD LS2s and GM is answering the call by bringing Zeta stateside but you can't have it both ways guys. You can't pay W-Body prices for tricked out LS2s.
01-14-2007, 01:53 PM
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Oh yeah, "only" a highly refined 3.6L DOHC engine putting out around 270hp in a mid-weight car driving the rear wheels. I'm sure it's good enough to run at least low 15's. Sounds like a competitor to the Altima/Accord/Camry but with much better performance. If the interior is worth a ****, it might even win some comparos in the auto rags...
01-14-2007, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydramatic
Oh yeah, "only" a highly refined 3.6L DOHC engine putting out around 270hp in a mid-weight car driving the rear wheels. I'm sure it's good enough to run at least low 15's. Sounds like a competitor to the Altima/Accord/Camry but with much better performance. If the interior is worth a ****, it might even win some comparos in the auto rags...
01-14-2007, 08:39 PM
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Ls3 420 hp 3900 lbs?
Sounds like a good guess. Might be a little heavy ?
Still a good perfomer..
Whats a 300C hemi with 340hp weigh?
Dodge charger srt/8 with 425 hp weighs?
Sounds like a good guess. Might be a little heavy ?
Still a good perfomer..
Whats a 300C hemi with 340hp weigh?
Dodge charger srt/8 with 425 hp weighs?
01-14-2007, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bruddah_man_matt
Mid weight my ******* ***. The Commodore is a 2 ton pig in V8 trim. It's a full sizer designed to handle the **** for roads that is the outback. Additionally, being a true full sizer this thing is positioned to go toe to toe with the likes of the 300, Charger, Avalon, Five Hundred, Montego, Chevy's own Impala and Buick's Lucerne etc... NOT the Altima, 6, Camry, Accord etc... That's Malibu/G6/Aura territory. The Altima in 270hp V6 trim being a 3200ish lbs. mid sizer would most likely eat a 260hp Commodore V6 for lunch seeing as it has a 500-600 lbs. advantage. Toyota's latest Camry is also fitted with a 270hp V6 of its own so I'd expect about the same. That's not to say the Commodore V6 isn't a good car, but talk about a slanted comparo. You're talking about putting a mid sizer with a 1/4 ton advantage up against a full size boat. Even with a RWD layout I'd bet on the Altima V6 in a drag against a 3.6L Commodore. Now the LS2 model... hehehe
I still think a base G8 would still be quite the car! As for the Altima out-handling the G8, fat chance! A G8 with a V6 up front instead of the heavy V8 would handle VERY well, probably close to a 60/40 weight ratio, not to mention it's just lighter. I'd probably buy one...
01-15-2007, 03:29 PM
#16
Lot of people on Clubgp have been watching this closely, it is intended to replace the Grand Prix name plate and step up and be the new W-body car. Read it was 5" shorter than the current GP, but is offered with the RWD and manual option so lots over there are rejoicing.
Only thing that baffles me is the Letter/Number name. My request/plead with any GM exec that could have any say in this, name it something traditional that Pontiac means, we aren't BMW/Audi... I would prefer to have a car actually named something than designated a letter/number that mean nothing besides it possibly being a larger version of a car, like 3xx, 5xx, etc.
Car does look good, will give kudos on that, for people looking for a two door the GTO is suppose to be the alternative. The highest HP engine it is rumored to have is something along the lines of 363HP and similar range in torque. After 08' they plan to build some in the Oshwa plant along with the Camaro in 09' and later.
Will be interesting to see what happens to it here in a year and see what others have to say.
Only thing that baffles me is the Letter/Number name. My request/plead with any GM exec that could have any say in this, name it something traditional that Pontiac means, we aren't BMW/Audi... I would prefer to have a car actually named something than designated a letter/number that mean nothing besides it possibly being a larger version of a car, like 3xx, 5xx, etc.
Car does look good, will give kudos on that, for people looking for a two door the GTO is suppose to be the alternative. The highest HP engine it is rumored to have is something along the lines of 363HP and similar range in torque. After 08' they plan to build some in the Oshwa plant along with the Camaro in 09' and later.
Will be interesting to see what happens to it here in a year and see what others have to say.
01-19-2007, 02:59 PM
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""With the GTO we made a bit of a mistake.
"The deterioration in profitability through the appreciation of the Australian dollar, we passed on to the customer.
"It gets to be an oxygen-deprived environment. This time we're going to try very hard to keep the vehicle in the mid-$20,000s." "
This is significant...for it may fortell a 25k Goat. Which is very interesting!!! Had the new Goat cost 25k...I would have bought one in 06 without thinking twice.
W
"The deterioration in profitability through the appreciation of the Australian dollar, we passed on to the customer.
"It gets to be an oxygen-deprived environment. This time we're going to try very hard to keep the vehicle in the mid-$20,000s." "
This is significant...for it may fortell a 25k Goat. Which is very interesting!!! Had the new Goat cost 25k...I would have bought one in 06 without thinking twice.
W
01-19-2007, 04:18 PM
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Pontiacs attempt to crack the euro car sale market here.
G series with numbers is definitely an attempt to compete or look attractive with BMW M series, Inifinity series, etc.
the gto was a failed attempt at creating a business, styled sports car, so now they are trying with the holden.
Yeah the holden I think looks cooler then most pontiacs but I am sure they will buff out the aggressive front end and make it look like every other pontiac. How boring!
G series with numbers is definitely an attempt to compete or look attractive with BMW M series, Inifinity series, etc.
the gto was a failed attempt at creating a business, styled sports car, so now they are trying with the holden.
Yeah the holden I think looks cooler then most pontiacs but I am sure they will buff out the aggressive front end and make it look like every other pontiac. How boring!
01-19-2007, 05:23 PM
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GTO was made by holden btw; same assembly line to commodores, utes and monaros.
failed? not many performance oritented vehicles are hot sellers. Not an excuse, I think the biggest problem with the GTO, that its called a GTO.
Pontiac front ends are boring nowadays (agreed), I like this chop
failed? not many performance oritented vehicles are hot sellers. Not an excuse, I think the biggest problem with the GTO, that its called a GTO.
Pontiac front ends are boring nowadays (agreed), I like this chop
Last edited by Fraser@speedinc; 01-19-2007 at 10:17 PM.