Crowned Customs

iTrader: (1)

Who has installed one, how much of a difference did it make? What cooler did you go with?

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Haven't installed one on my V, but I have installed several on LSx track and road race cars.

I have seen a 20-30* drop in oil temps (as measured in teh pan) by using a small Setrab with a fan pack. The package is very small and forces air through the cooler.

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tp...action=product

I use the 9x3 cooler.

JNR_Design

iTrader: (3)

RX7 oil cooler is a monster and can be had for a good price...Nicely built too and iirc, has a built in thermostat. I have one I was gonna use on my galant (for turbo), but damn thing is huge May cool it off too much though without some sort of thermostat.

Here's a pic of one...I don't like overpriced "kits", so I need to get some metric hose fittings and such, but it's not a big deal. You could use an adapter to AN (or JIC is basically same) if you want or whatever...

I guess it wouldn't hurt to cool the oil a little, but probably not need a whole lot, as far as RX7 cooler being overkill (but probably holds an extra quart, lol)...You can also use a transmission cooler (like B&M), if you have one laying around like me; I may use that one instead...This is about 23 on my list of wants to do to the CTS right now tho

Big Bu Bu

iTrader: (4)

10AN is expensive since you need to run a block off plate and a remote filter. 8AN you can maybe find a sandwich plate and run a straight cooler. If you don't have headers things fit better and you might be able to do 10AN.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

I wouldn't run anything less than -10. Just not enough flow and too much restriction.

LG Motorsports makes a unit that installs above the oil filter. Very simple and very easy, even with headers. No need for a remote filter.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...installed.html

Sorry ... the pics are long gone.


Lingenfelter makes one as well ...
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...egory_Code=C54


Katech ...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...r-adapter.html

Big Bu Bu

iTrader: (4)

Hey Mitch
Are you sure the LG fits on a CTS V with headers. Are you sure that it's not for an F-body LS1? I know the Lingenfelter and Katech do not fit a V with headers and 10AN. I bought them and tried them along with the Mocal unit with the built in thermostat and that doesn't fit either. I just set up a cooler with forged Aeroquip 90 degree fittings and starlight hose on my V. The by pass plate and remote filter mount are all Earls billet pieces. I needed to locate the filter remotely behind the fender liner and I used an inline Mocal 180 thermostat. I just coudn't get 10ANs to fit a CTS V with headers using a sandwich style plate like the LG model. There just was no room to route the hoses with that style plate.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

I know the LG rig fit FCar and C5 cars with headers.

Have I seen it work on a V? No, I haven't.

But in order to get the -10 lines to run along the block, I had to use 180* Aeroquip fittings coming right out of the adaptor. That gave me almost a straigh shot facing forward. And I used Aeroquip, because you can clock them to almost any angle.

It was a very tight squeeze getting the lines and fire sleeve past the motor mounts and alternator.

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

Most transmission coolers have lines that are too small to be used as an oil cooler. B&M makes a number of coolers, so it could be that the one you have is sufficient, but I'd be very wary of telling people they can use a transmission cooler as an engine oil cooler.

JNR_Design

iTrader: (3)

Good point and you may be right, as many tranny coolers contain only 5/16" (-05 AN) or 3/8" (-06 AN) male nipples...

The particular unit I have (B&M) is large enough (1/2" or -08 AN), but yeah perhaps many are not, so it would be best to do it on a case by case basis (if using auto trans cooler), I suppose. Personally, I feel 1/2" (-08 AN) is big enough for the transfer hoses; any bigger and wonder how good the oem oil pump, as far as pushing fluid thru such a large tube (-10 AN = 5/8"), although with the internal resistance of the cooler passages, maybe it's not such an issue, but then it has to return. Bigger is not always better, esp. when it comes to fluid transfer via pumps and whatnot.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

You are correct. Bigger is not always better. Too big creates a pressure drop as does the length of the hose run.

Your concern about the pump is well founded. Pushing oil though a smaller orifices means either pump works harder or bypasses more due to pressure relief. And compressing fluid (pumping) and then releasing (relief spring) increases oil temp without any combustion help.

Lou built the adapter he markets based upon the opening in the side of the block. The orifices are the same size. I venture a guess the Katech and LF designs are the same.

Crowned Customs

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the info

Big Bu Bu

iTrader: (4)

I thought you's show up in this thread I finally got it done and what a PTA. The damn forged fittings are pricey and the new starlight hose is nice to work with. I'm getting great oil pressure (no losses at all) with 10AN and if you use 15w 40w Mobil for track day the pressure is even higher than the "no cooler set up". The great thing about this set up is you can add an Accusump pretty easily by tapping into the return line with a one way valve. Pretty simple. I left my camera at work so I will post up some pics soon. Street temps never get over 195. I'll know what the track temps are in October at RA.

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

I think the B&M tranny coolers are all stacked plate type, right? Those should be fine, particularly with 1/2" NPT fittings. More common tranny coolers (that people often think of because they see them on the shelf at Autozone/Pep Boys) are the tube-and-fin type, and as you said, those are the ones with the small tubing.

Keep in mind the oil cooler circuit is in series with the rest of the oiling system, so you're never going to see a pressure drop because the hose is too big. (Well, I guess if you didn't have enough oil in the system and the pump was having to fill some giant void before oil ever got the bearings, but that shouldn't be the case.) Even if you have a big hose (say -12 or -14AN), once you're through all that you get back to the oil passages in the block, and that's what is going to drive the pressure you see.

Based on practical feedback I've seen on various automotive forums (Subies, Vettes, Bimmers, Mustangs, etc), it seems that -10AN is the way to go. You should see little to no pressure loss with -10AN lines. Going bigger than that just means you're spending more on fittings and hose, making it harder on yourself to figure out how to route everything through the cramped available space, and not really gaining any improvement in pressure drop. Going smaller seems to be a crapshoot - I've seen some people report definite drop in oil pressure with -8AN, and others say they haven't had any issues. Based on fluid dynamics, the pumping losses through identical lengths are up to 90% greater through a 1/2" line compared to a 5/8" line.

I'm definitely interested to see what Bu Bu came up with, as I'm going to embark on the same journey soon. I actually should be getting some bits and pieces from Summit tomorrow so I can do some test fitting and figure out how I want to route things.

HPFreak

iTrader: (1)

http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/...ilcoolers.html

lubelizard

iTrader: (5)

I am looking forward to seeing the install results.

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

Uhhh. OK. Should we all post links to oil cooler manufacturers with no explanation of why we felt the need to post that particular link?

I'll do Mocal. The rest of you can do Setrab, Fluidyne, Derale, B&M, Long, Permacool, Earl's, Hayden, etc. It'll be fun!

http://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/Product_Summary.html

On a more serious note - Big Bu Bu, where are your pics, dammit?! I did some fiddling around with mine yesterday, just trying to figure out what will work. I ordered a Canton sandwich adapter (22-546), a Canton take-off plate (22-593), and an Earl's thermostatic sandwich adapter (503ERL) so that I could compare fitments.

I had mentioned the Earl's sandwich adapter in my last post in this thread, and went ahead and bought one so I could see how big it is and whether it would fit. Turns out it's a bust. Not unexpected, but there was only one way to find out. I couldn't even get it up to the filter mounting location - the adapter actually hit the Kooks header on the way up.

I bought the Canton take-off plate because the picture on Summit's website and on Canton's website made it look like the inlet and outlet ports were recessed into the adapter, which would allow for more room for the -AN fittings and hose routing. I figured that if the Canton sandwich plate wouldn't fit (due to insufficient room for the fittings and hose), then the take-off plate might, and then I would just use a remote filter. Turns out, when the parts arrived, the Canton take-off plate and sandwich plate are basically identical dimensionally - the photo on Canton's site is BS.

I think that I'll be able to use the Canton sandwich adapter. With it rotated so the ports are facing forward, it looks like so:


I think doing that I can route the hoses straight towards the front of the car and between the engine mount and block. Hard to get a picture of that, but here's one looking forward from behind and below the Canton piece:


Alternatively, if I rotate the Canton adapter all the way aft, routing the hoses would be a bit more complicated (although I think it still could be done).


Today I'm going to take off the undertray thingy on the nose so I can think about cooler mounting and sizing.

lubelizard

iTrader: (5)

Is there room to route it toward the driver side of the car, around the header, then towards the front of the engine bay, or maybe 2 90's and face them down and then go forward to the front of the car.

Big Bu Bu

iTrader: (4)

I'll get you guys some shots of the plate, the cooler mounted, and the remote filter setup. I think I have one shot of the lines from the plate. Here is the problem. The work was done out of my buddies shop. The camera is at his place and pics are on his machine right now (what was he thinking?). He flew to Washington to pick up a used Land Rover for his girlfriend (he'll be sorry). He's supposed to be back Monday. I'll post them up as soon as he gets in. I may be able to give you guys his contact info for questions if it's OK with him or you can PM me.

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

In the meantime, what actual cooler did you go with, and where/how is it mounted?

Big Bu Bu

iTrader: (4)

Pat
I need your help. I know you guys were anxious to see some pics so I got under the car to snap a few tonight until I get the ones when it was up on the rack. The problem is I am never successful loading stuff to the forum. Either I get security token issues or the files just fail to load. Maybe you can put them up?

http://s879.photobucket.com/home/msu...cket/allalbums


So the cooler is a Setrab. It is not humongous but it fits perfect in the lower grill area. I have a top view mounting shot for now with Mocal stat in view to the right. There is also a few shots of the spin on plate and the fittings. Also you can see how we routed the Starlight under the plastic skid plates, past the motor mounts (yellow UUC) and headed to the front fender well where the fog light is located and the remote filter mount lives. I didn't take all the plastic covers off tonight. I have some good shots of the remote filter mount and some better pics of the mounted cooler and some routing in the next batch of pics.

Mike

Thanks