User Tuning
08-19-2012, 04:46 PM
#1
User Tuning Does anybody tune their own car? What's available for that? If you put a wideband and egt sensor in an exhaust pipe before the cat, it should be easy if you could access the factory knock correction and fuel and timing maps. Is that possible?
Or is this uncharted territory in the V community?
Or is this uncharted territory in the V community?
08-19-2012, 04:59 PM
#2
Does anybody tune their own car? What's available for that? If you put a wideband and egt sensor in an exhaust pipe before the cat, it should be easy if you could access the factory knock correction and fuel and timing maps. Is that possible?
Or is this uncharted territory in the V community?
Or is this uncharted territory in the V community?
08-19-2012, 05:19 PM
#3
TECH Fanatic
There are quite a few of us that dabble. I would look at the HP Tuners and EFI Live boards to see if it's for you.
Ed is one of the few that will help you tune your own stuff, so you learn in the process, but his help is not free.
Ed is one of the few that will help you tune your own stuff, so you learn in the process, but his help is not free.
08-19-2012, 05:33 PM
#4
TECH Resident
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 796
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I started using EFI live about a year ago, I would say after dabbeling for a year I have learned alot. If you start doing this on your own the learning curve is steep, but luckily these cars don't have too many tables unless you just insist on running a 2 or 5 position DSP switch (not sure if it is even possible but...). My point being it will take time, but it's worth it. Havent used HP tuners so I cant say anything on that, but EFI Live is great.
Trending Topics
08-20-2012, 08:37 AM
#9
Is the Flashscan interface for EFI Live not compatible with the 04/05 cars? Or am I missing something?
Nevermind, I did miss it; it's on there.
Which is better for a single user? HPTuners or EFI Live? Does it matter?
Nevermind. Don't answer. Found the ECU section. That question is forbidden. I'll look around. Thanks everyone.
Nevermind, I did miss it; it's on there.
Which is better for a single user? HPTuners or EFI Live? Does it matter?
Nevermind. Don't answer. Found the ECU section. That question is forbidden. I'll look around. Thanks everyone.
Last edited by isis; 08-20-2012 at 08:51 AM.
08-20-2012, 09:38 AM
#10
I agree if your using it to delete DPF on a diesel or shut off rear o2 sensors. But i strongly disagree into the more complex changes.
The software in depth and understanding HOW all the tables interact with each other, how to setup PIDs, histograms, configure files, and understanding how the ECM works is daunting to some. Takes a lot of time. Its why there are courses like Calibrated Success which charge big bucks.
Its why there are a lot of HACK tunes out there and less ideal tunes. (Ive seen some real bad hacks)
Injectors are a prime example HERE. Using This datasheet
Imagine you tune a car, and the injectors you added, just wont run right.. you couldnt get the PW low enough to hit stoich target when idling because they are too large and your FPR is fixed at 58psi... look at the factors required to change. This is the proper way.. meaning, any future changes are trouble free, the engine runs like a top in any weather, any elevation, any mod. One can 'burn' these erorrs into other tables (e.g. VE table) on purpose, because they don't understand, they get the engine running 'ok' their fuel milage sucks ***** and there is the odd low rpm idle stumble or running rich, then the next mod, throws the entire car for a loop. Done right, zero issues. Remember, different injector manufacturers have different dynamic reaction times of the needle, different voltages means different 'reaction' and so on.
It would be like saying the GM engineers job at designing the VE /MAF blend and determining the MAF values is 'easy'.
Though we don't have to understand the bias curve of the device itself we do need to know how it functions somewhat.. especially if one decides to change the MAF to lets say.. a Hitachi slot style.
There are some HARDCORE guys (not many) on HPTuners forum... that will make your head spin.
One must understand how the ECM works to tune. How to place the engine in OL. how to ensure you have no other enrichment values affecting your scan. How to setup histograms to be able to scan specifics. what is wall fill?
steady state tuning?
It takes time... and a good place of knowledge
- Greg Banish
- Steve Frost
- Bill winters
-jimmyblue
-redhardsupra (marcin) will always shed interesting light on the subject
- Chris @HP is helpful as well.
HARDCORE:
http://redhardsupra.blogspot.ca/
The software in depth and understanding HOW all the tables interact with each other, how to setup PIDs, histograms, configure files, and understanding how the ECM works is daunting to some. Takes a lot of time. Its why there are courses like Calibrated Success which charge big bucks.
Its why there are a lot of HACK tunes out there and less ideal tunes. (Ive seen some real bad hacks)
Injectors are a prime example HERE. Using This datasheet
Imagine you tune a car, and the injectors you added, just wont run right.. you couldnt get the PW low enough to hit stoich target when idling because they are too large and your FPR is fixed at 58psi... look at the factors required to change. This is the proper way.. meaning, any future changes are trouble free, the engine runs like a top in any weather, any elevation, any mod. One can 'burn' these erorrs into other tables (e.g. VE table) on purpose, because they don't understand, they get the engine running 'ok' their fuel milage sucks ***** and there is the odd low rpm idle stumble or running rich, then the next mod, throws the entire car for a loop. Done right, zero issues. Remember, different injector manufacturers have different dynamic reaction times of the needle, different voltages means different 'reaction' and so on.
It would be like saying the GM engineers job at designing the VE /MAF blend and determining the MAF values is 'easy'.
Though we don't have to understand the bias curve of the device itself we do need to know how it functions somewhat.. especially if one decides to change the MAF to lets say.. a Hitachi slot style.
There are some HARDCORE guys (not many) on HPTuners forum... that will make your head spin.
One must understand how the ECM works to tune. How to place the engine in OL. how to ensure you have no other enrichment values affecting your scan. How to setup histograms to be able to scan specifics. what is wall fill?
steady state tuning?
It takes time... and a good place of knowledge
- Greg Banish
- Steve Frost
- Bill winters
-jimmyblue
-redhardsupra (marcin) will always shed interesting light on the subject
- Chris @HP is helpful as well.
HARDCORE:
http://redhardsupra.blogspot.ca/
Last edited by vmapper; 08-20-2012 at 10:07 AM.
08-20-2012, 10:33 AM
#11
TECH Resident
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 796
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vmapper is absolutely correct, the tuning software used today is not something to dive into without a lot of research and studying. I've been lucky and never done any damage, but there are plenty of people who have melted internals, or destroyed motors in other manners with poor tuning. I've come pretty close to melting a turbo on my duramax, just because I screwed up the vane positioning table once. 1800 degree egt's are nothing to laugh at when you run stock internals. That being said do your research, never make an adjustment until you know what the primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. effects will be.
08-20-2012, 10:40 AM
#12
I'm aware of all that. Injectors are one of the more difficult things to calibrate properly on any ECU. Large changes in hardware will always affect calibration in (seemingly) unanticipated ways. There is a lot of dynamic stuff that isn't always immediately apparent the way code is written, especially with feedback trims and all the other intelligent things ECUs do.
I didn't mean to trivialize the effort people have put into learning this stuff, I just meant tuning is tuning, and by starting small, and with lots of datalogging, it shouldn't be difficult to pick up since i have a few years of experience with a modern turbocharged factory ecu. There's a lot going on in them, especially across a large temperature variation like we have in PA.
Has anyone played around with a stock car? Is there any room for improvement on the stock tune, or did GM get it pretty bang-on? Would I be wasting my time fiddling around?
I didn't mean to trivialize the effort people have put into learning this stuff, I just meant tuning is tuning, and by starting small, and with lots of datalogging, it shouldn't be difficult to pick up since i have a few years of experience with a modern turbocharged factory ecu. There's a lot going on in them, especially across a large temperature variation like we have in PA.
Has anyone played around with a stock car? Is there any room for improvement on the stock tune, or did GM get it pretty bang-on? Would I be wasting my time fiddling around?
08-20-2012, 06:52 PM
#13
TECH Resident
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 796
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't mean to trivialize the effort people have put into learning this stuff, I just meant tuning is tuning, and by starting small, and with lots of datalogging, it shouldn't be difficult to pick up since i have a few years of experience with a modern turbocharged factory ecu. There's a lot going on in them, especially across a large temperature variation like we have in PA.
