What did you do to your V today?
#1141
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You're missing the point. There should be NO movements in the toe rods. You can feel a 0.05 degree difference in rear wheel toe angle, and even 1.25" 4140HT with solid bushings will flex by a few hundredths of a degree under launch loads. That's why polyurethane and rubber are unacceptable. 95A polyurethane bushings can flex by several tenths and rubber can flex by more than a degree.
#1142
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by articulation you mean up and down with the suspension then yes. But In and out (toe adjustment) no. Fuzzy is correct, with toe rods the less you can get them to deflect the better. That's why CS made the other version of the toe rods at my request with the large heim joint ends. Had a group buy for them.
But if that toe rod adjustment moves at all and allows changes in the wheels toe alignment it causes all sorts of issues. The primary for our cars is wheel
Hop.
But if that toe rod adjustment moves at all and allows changes in the wheels toe alignment it causes all sorts of issues. The primary for our cars is wheel
Hop.
#1143
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by articulation you mean up and down with the suspension then yes. But In and out (toe adjustment) no. Fuzzy is correct, with toe rods the less you can get them to deflect the better. That's why CS made the other version of the toe rods at my request with the large heim joint ends. Had a group buy for them.
But if that toe rod adjustment moves at all and allows changes in the wheels toe alignment it causes all sorts of issues. The primary for our cars is wheel
Hop.
But if that toe rod adjustment moves at all and allows changes in the wheels toe alignment it causes all sorts of issues. The primary for our cars is wheel
Hop.
#1146
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It means the wheel stays straight. And oriented I'm a manner that it was intended.
What you're hung up on is thinking this doesn't allow the wheel to go up and down with suspension travel. Which is wrong. The wheel can still travel up and down as intended. But will not deflect from its correct orientation going forward and back. Or side to side.
What you're hung up on is thinking this doesn't allow the wheel to go up and down with suspension travel. Which is wrong. The wheel can still travel up and down as intended. But will not deflect from its correct orientation going forward and back. Or side to side.
#1147
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I think we're just mincing words here.
There can be a linear articulation without deflection. Deflection, by definition, is turning away from a straight course.
What Fuzzy and Nik are saying is that there theoretically shouldn't be any compliance outside of the intended short arch to follow suspension travel. I get it, but don't see Heim joints as a very practical solution for daily street driven use over long periods of time. Outside of Heim joints, perhaps something similar in design to the poly bushing shape but instead in brass, aluminum or delrin with the same grease channels could be more suitable for longevity. I have no interest in going this route as what I have is still drastically better than stock, but from an absolute performance perspective no deflection is key. But that would also stand the same for any of the bushings.
There can be a linear articulation without deflection. Deflection, by definition, is turning away from a straight course.
What Fuzzy and Nik are saying is that there theoretically shouldn't be any compliance outside of the intended short arch to follow suspension travel. I get it, but don't see Heim joints as a very practical solution for daily street driven use over long periods of time. Outside of Heim joints, perhaps something similar in design to the poly bushing shape but instead in brass, aluminum or delrin with the same grease channels could be more suitable for longevity. I have no interest in going this route as what I have is still drastically better than stock, but from an absolute performance perspective no deflection is key. But that would also stand the same for any of the bushings.
#1148
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At the most extreme levels this car has been taken to, gtistile isn't seeing any visual changes in toe on a 1.46 60' with our polyurethane toe rods. Now, yes they may move a couple thousandths of an inch, but for a street vehicle, you will not notice that difference. Most alignment shops won't get it setup that close.
#1149
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I don't think my butt dyno would be sensitive enough to pick up the difference between these links with poly bushings vs other links with spherical bearings. However, if one wants the spherical bearing type, I don't see any reason to go with the Camaro/G8 part (TR004) when BMR already makes the TR001 to fit our cars. The TR004 has the same general design (with the inner adjustment in a poor location), costs nearly 40% more, and wouldn't be a direct fit.
#1150
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At the most extreme levels this car has been taken to, gtistile isn't seeing any visual changes in toe on a 1.46 60' with our polyurethane toe rods. Now, yes they may move a couple thousandths of an inch, but for a street vehicle, you will not notice that difference. Most alignment shops won't get it setup that close.
#1151
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What about the more stress on brackets and wheel suspension which are connected with the modified toe rod by spherical joint, if there is no rubber or PU to absorb the beats, the weldings can become flaws from the hard way, you use them, will they last forever or the next modding hell???
And at least its transit more noise from road etc.
Regards,
Ronald
And at least its transit more noise from road etc.
Regards,
Ronald
#1152
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What about the more stress on brackets and wheel suspension which are connected with the modified toe rod by spherical joint, if there is no rubber or PU to absorb the beats, the weldings can become flaws from the hard way, you use them, will they last forever or the next modding hell???
And at least its transit more noise from road etc.
Regards,
Ronald
And at least its transit more noise from road etc.
Regards,
Ronald
Speaking of welds, though, if you have the subframe out of the car, you should consider doing a seam weld to increase stiffness over the OEM stitch weld. That's a relatively cheap and easy upgrade, and it's one of the first things the pros do when they can't use a tubular chassis.
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 02-13-2017 at 01:51 PM.
#1154
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Got it fired today albeit with nothing behind the cats. Off to have some some connectors made up in the am. Sounds nasty open!
https://youtu.be/jgZnM_Ys-vI
https://youtu.be/jgZnM_Ys-vI
#1156
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if a suspension is going to function, it has to move. If it moves, there's clearance. If there's clearance, there will be some minute level of deflection no matter what you do. Sure at an f1 level this could be engineered down to complete insignificance but if you could measure it, you'd find some level of instability.
But of course, as applied to the V1, this is a fairly ridiculous conversation to have in the first place and if I wasn't taking a dump right now, I wouldn't have bothered.
#1157
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So just because it's on the topic of the thread...
Getting ready for spring after a long winter. Today I pulled the driveshaft, lowered the tranny, and pulled the linkage.
Driveshaft will be on its way to VoodooChikin soon.
But look at this, some *** clown tried to bandaid these shot bushings with electrical tape. Not amused![Huh](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/huh.gif)
Will be replaced with CS bushings...
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Oh, I got the MightyMouse catch can installed the other day too. So, yeah, it's been a party in the garage lately!![Cheers!!](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_cheers.gif)
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Getting ready for spring after a long winter. Today I pulled the driveshaft, lowered the tranny, and pulled the linkage.
Driveshaft will be on its way to VoodooChikin soon.
But look at this, some *** clown tried to bandaid these shot bushings with electrical tape. Not amused
![Huh](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/huh.gif)
Will be replaced with CS bushings...
![Name: 20170214_150344_zpsoel6eicg.jpg
Views: 93
Size: 386.5 KB](https://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-cts-v-2004-2007-gen-i/589678d1501223683-what-did-you-do-your-v-today-20170214_150344_zpsoel6eicg.jpg)
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Views: 99
Size: 329.1 KB](https://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-cts-v-2004-2007-gen-i/589679d1501223683-what-did-you-do-your-v-today-20170214_152704_zpsfge8ejkn.jpg)
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Oh, I got the MightyMouse catch can installed the other day too. So, yeah, it's been a party in the garage lately!
![Cheers!!](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_cheers.gif)
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Views: 91
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#1159
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It never ends with this car! As soon as I free up the jack from supporting the transmission, I'll be pulling the rear cradle again (WW trailing arms).
I got the Gen 4 PCV can with a 3/8 barb for now. I plan on being boosted at some point in the future and that setup allows me to basically change fittings at will depending upon the application.
If you have any questions, Email David (MightyMouse). He has been extremely helpful and patient, I can't recommend his service enough. And he'll set you up with whatever you need for your particular application.
Also, I think it looks boss in that bay!
I got the Gen 4 PCV can with a 3/8 barb for now. I plan on being boosted at some point in the future and that setup allows me to basically change fittings at will depending upon the application.
If you have any questions, Email David (MightyMouse). He has been extremely helpful and patient, I can't recommend his service enough. And he'll set you up with whatever you need for your particular application.
Also, I think it looks boss in that bay!
![Driving](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_driving3.gif)
#1160
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Had my connector pipes made for my headers and I'm loving the new found torque! I will give this car some credit the headers and booster install are some of the easiest I have put in. I think I would set my ta on fire before trying to take my headers of my Pontiac again.