Revshift control arm bushings and zerk fittings
02-09-2014, 12:35 PM
#1
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Revshift control arm bushings and zerk fittings Ive seen several members talking about putting zerk fittings in your control arms so you can grease the bushing to help with noise but I cant find any pics or details. I have the front upper bushings waiting to go in and if I have the arms out I would like to put some fittings in so I dont have to keep taking them out to grease them. Just curious if anyone has any info- fitting size, placement, which grease? Thanks
02-09-2014, 01:19 PM
#2
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Ive seen several members talking about putting zerk fittings in your control arms so you can grease the bushing to help with noise but I cant find any pics or details. I have the front upper bushings waiting to go in and if I have the arms out I would like to put some fittings in so I dont have to keep taking them out to grease them. Just curious if anyone has any info- fitting size, placement, which grease? Thanks
Use lithium grease. Petroleum based greases can eat away at the urethane.
There is a Fastenal right near my house so I go to them all the time.
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...0Products%22|~
02-09-2014, 07:30 PM
#3
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I did it on a set of OEM aluminum front control arms for my Subaru when I was installing some Powerflex bushings:
Nothing too hard, really - drill, tap, thread in the zerk. You can find grease zerks at any hardware store or most auto parts places.
I will disagree with one thing that was said above, about making sure the zerk doesn't penetrate into the bushing. I think it's actually a good thing for the zerk to go into the bushing. Poly bushings are designed to rotate around the bushing sleeve; the outer diameter of the bushing should not be rotating inside the bearing shell of the control arm itself. On the Subaru arms, I drilled the hole at the center of the arm, so it would line up with where the two bushing halves come together, and then with a razor knife cut just a little notch into the ends of the bushing halves. I lined the notches up with the zerk when I pressed the bushing halves in. That way when I grease the bushings, the grease goes where I want it to go - to the inner diameter of the bushing where it rotates around the bushing sleeve. I installed those back in 2007 and they're still going strong.
As for grease, I've used marine grease (just the typical stuff you can pick up at any auto parts place - it's supposed to be good for not getting washed out) and I also have a grease gun loaded with a tube of Energy Suspension's bushing grease. I can't say either works any better than the other. I very, very rarely get any noise from my bushings - typically I end up lubing them more because I'm under the car and think, "You know, I have greased those zerks in a long *** time..." as opposed to greasing them because of noise.
Nothing too hard, really - drill, tap, thread in the zerk. You can find grease zerks at any hardware store or most auto parts places.
I will disagree with one thing that was said above, about making sure the zerk doesn't penetrate into the bushing. I think it's actually a good thing for the zerk to go into the bushing. Poly bushings are designed to rotate around the bushing sleeve; the outer diameter of the bushing should not be rotating inside the bearing shell of the control arm itself. On the Subaru arms, I drilled the hole at the center of the arm, so it would line up with where the two bushing halves come together, and then with a razor knife cut just a little notch into the ends of the bushing halves. I lined the notches up with the zerk when I pressed the bushing halves in. That way when I grease the bushings, the grease goes where I want it to go - to the inner diameter of the bushing where it rotates around the bushing sleeve. I installed those back in 2007 and they're still going strong.
As for grease, I've used marine grease (just the typical stuff you can pick up at any auto parts place - it's supposed to be good for not getting washed out) and I also have a grease gun loaded with a tube of Energy Suspension's bushing grease. I can't say either works any better than the other. I very, very rarely get any noise from my bushings - typically I end up lubing them more because I'm under the car and think, "You know, I have greased those zerks in a long *** time..." as opposed to greasing them because of noise.
02-09-2014, 07:41 PM
#4
Agreed. The Revshift control arm bushings, under the full 66 ft-lbs of torque, are forced to rotate because the sleeve is a little bit too short (the yoke's arms grab the bushing, not the poly). If that wasn't happening, their lubrication requirements would drop in half or less. Maybe it's just the tolerance on my yoke, but I had to resort to red Loctite and only about 30 ft-lbs of torque to avoid locking up the front end.
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 02-09-2014 at 08:53 PM.
02-09-2014, 07:46 PM
#5
Check this PDF out.
It the same step but for my Mark VIII.
It start at page 4 Install Zerk Grease Fittings.
http://home.comcast.net/~dlfraleigh/...BushingKit.pdf
It the same step but for my Mark VIII.
It start at page 4 Install Zerk Grease Fittings.
http://home.comcast.net/~dlfraleigh/...BushingKit.pdf
02-09-2014, 09:01 PM
#6
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http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=82&pcid=17
02-09-2014, 09:27 PM
#7
That's my bad. I thought the redline stuff I used was lithium. But I was mistaken. Its a weird organic/synthetic grease and not a lithium
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=82&pcid=17
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=82&pcid=17
My thought process is: just because moly grease has a higher pressure rating than PTFE doesn't necessarily make it a superior choice for poly bushings, since the carrier formulation largely determines how water resistant the compound is.
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02-09-2014, 09:43 PM
#8
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It's molybdenum disulfide. I've mentioned Redline CV-2 a few times, and I have a grease cartridge of it here. Right now I'm trying Mercury 2-4-C PTFE synthetic grease, but if it doesn't live up to my expectations, I'll try CV-2.
My thought process is: just because moly grease has a higher pressure rating than PTFE doesn't necessarily make it a superior choice for poly bushings, since the carrier formulation largely determines how water resistant the compound is.
My thought process is: just because moly grease has a higher pressure rating than PTFE doesn't necessarily make it a superior choice for poly bushings, since the carrier formulation largely determines how water resistant the compound is.
02-19-2014, 09:06 AM
#9
You're aware that the majority of lithium greases use a petroleum base, right?
Agreed. The Revshift control arm bushings, under the full 66 ft-lbs of torque, are forced to rotate because the sleeve is a little bit too short (the yoke's arms grab the bushing, not the poly). If that wasn't happening, their lubrication requirements would drop in half or less. Maybe it's just the tolerance on my yoke, but I had to resort to red Loctite and only about 30 ft-lbs of torque to avoid locking up the front end.
Agreed. The Revshift control arm bushings, under the full 66 ft-lbs of torque, are forced to rotate because the sleeve is a little bit too short (the yoke's arms grab the bushing, not the poly). If that wasn't happening, their lubrication requirements would drop in half or less. Maybe it's just the tolerance on my yoke, but I had to resort to red Loctite and only about 30 ft-lbs of torque to avoid locking up the front end.
It'd be appreciated if Revshift would provide their input into the matter.
Every other urethane bushing I've installed over the years has been designed as AAIIIC stated. My rear upper bushings were very tight. The bushings were very very tight to fit inside the cradle mounts.
Last edited by lubelizard; 02-19-2014 at 10:00 AM.
02-19-2014, 10:59 AM
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Agreed. The Revshift control arm bushings, under the full 66 ft-lbs of torque, are forced to rotate because the sleeve is a little bit too short (the yoke's arms grab the bushing, not the poly). If that wasn't happening, their lubrication requirements would drop in half or less. Maybe it's just the tolerance on my yoke, but I had to resort to red Loctite and only about 30 ft-lbs of torque to avoid locking up the front end.
I'd shave the bushings down somehow rather than relying on Loctite and an under-torqued fastener.
02-19-2014, 12:17 PM
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I also had problems with this. After I installed my rear control arm bushings, when torqued to spec, they were so tight every bump would break your back. So I had to do exactly what fuzzy did, drop the torque down to about 30 and loctite. They correct way? Probably not, but when I called Revshift, they advised NOT to trim the bushings. So I saw no other way. But next time my cradle is out, thats exactly what I'm gonna do.
02-19-2014, 03:05 PM
#12
I also had problems with this. After I installed my rear control arm bushings, when torqued to spec, they were so tight every bump would break your back. So I had to do exactly what fuzzy did, drop the torque down to about 30 and loctite. They correct way? Probably not, but when I called Revshift, they advised NOT to trim the bushings. So I saw no other way. But next time my cradle is out, thats exactly what I'm gonna do.
-If the product fails for any reason, related or not, then they would be to blame for suggesting you modify it--Bad PR and potential warranty claims.
-These are suspension parts afterall--there is some liability involved.
-Can you really trust just anyone to modify something the right way?
Now as for seeing a problem and finding the solution by trimming the excess to fit like an OEM is really up to those with the know-how. If there is a particular reason as to why it needs to be a certain dimension, then I may stand corrected.
Also, even if it feels stiff after first tightening I would say that's normal. Put a few miles on it and it will loosen up--similar to the shift linkage bolt on our shifters.
02-19-2014, 05:20 PM
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It's in Revshift's best interest to tell you NOT to modify their products for several reasons.
-If the product fails for any reason, related or not, then they would be to blame for suggesting you modify it--Bad PR and potential warranty claims.
-These are suspension parts afterall--there is some liability involved.
-Can you really trust just anyone to modify something the right way?
Now as for seeing a problem and finding the solution by trimming the excess to fit like an OEM is really up to those with the know-how. If there is a particular reason as to why it needs to be a certain dimension, then I may stand corrected.
Also, even if it feels stiff after first tightening I would say that's normal. Put a few miles on it and it will loosen up--similar to the shift linkage bolt on our shifters.
-If the product fails for any reason, related or not, then they would be to blame for suggesting you modify it--Bad PR and potential warranty claims.
-These are suspension parts afterall--there is some liability involved.
-Can you really trust just anyone to modify something the right way?
Now as for seeing a problem and finding the solution by trimming the excess to fit like an OEM is really up to those with the know-how. If there is a particular reason as to why it needs to be a certain dimension, then I may stand corrected.
Also, even if it feels stiff after first tightening I would say that's normal. Put a few miles on it and it will loosen up--similar to the shift linkage bolt on our shifters.
02-19-2014, 06:49 PM
#16
All polyurethane bushings, no matter the brand, stick out further than the sleeve when installed (I will explain why below). This is an issue that fuzzylogic made apparent to us a little while ago and we have been investigating it. We sell 80A softer and 95A harder bushings. The 80A bushings have enough squish that the extra stick out is not a big deal and does not cause the binding that is being described. I can be pretty confident when I say that you guys who have this tight control arm issue have 95A bushings. We originally designed the bushings in 80A and installed them on an R&D CTS-V. The 80A bushing fit nice and worked very well. We then sent some 95A bushings to a third party installer who wanted to try them. They installed them and reported back saying everything was all good. So we said "Great! They must work like the 80A bushings." After some road testing and verification we released them for sale. We have been selling the front and rear upper control arm bushings for a year now and only now are getting some fitment complaints on the 95A bushings. So, we installed the 95A bushings on our shop car and, sure enough, found the issue.
Explanation of why bushings always stick out farther than the sleeve (this may hurt your brain). Polyurethane is liquid... meaning, it does not actually compress, it just moves out of the way. When a bushing is designed, the sides are intended to be flush with the bolt sleeve. But since it is also deigned to be a slight press fit that means the part that is pressing into the control arm and over the bolt sleeve have to go somewhere (like liquid). It has no where to go but out the sides and past the bolt sleeve causing this dreaded stick out. With our 80A bushings its fine because they are soft enough that the stick out portion just compresses and moves elsewhere. But the 95A is too rigid to move elsewhere and ends up creating a very tight fit. I am guilty of over looking this detail (Yes, I, John, am the bushing designer). Now, I fully expect our competition to jump on this and claim that they took this into account and they are better than us and so on. I can guarantee that will be false. As I said before, no other manufacturer accounts for this. Most other manufacturers offer 85A as their hardest bushings which is soft enough for this to not be an issue.
Needless to say, we are fixing the issue. We are reworking our control arm bushings as we speak. We just have to tweak the dimensions a bit. Anyone who has an issue with our 95A control arm bushings can let us know and we will send out free replacements once the tweaking is complete. After all, we still warranty our polyurethane for life.
I should also mention that this is only an issue for rotational moving bushing parts such as control arms. It is not an issue for stationary bushings like the cradle bushings or the diff bushings.
To add to the original topic of this thread. We are designing a zerk related something and some new bushing features that will efficiently retain the grease on the bushings.
Explanation of why bushings always stick out farther than the sleeve (this may hurt your brain). Polyurethane is liquid... meaning, it does not actually compress, it just moves out of the way. When a bushing is designed, the sides are intended to be flush with the bolt sleeve. But since it is also deigned to be a slight press fit that means the part that is pressing into the control arm and over the bolt sleeve have to go somewhere (like liquid). It has no where to go but out the sides and past the bolt sleeve causing this dreaded stick out. With our 80A bushings its fine because they are soft enough that the stick out portion just compresses and moves elsewhere. But the 95A is too rigid to move elsewhere and ends up creating a very tight fit. I am guilty of over looking this detail (Yes, I, John, am the bushing designer). Now, I fully expect our competition to jump on this and claim that they took this into account and they are better than us and so on. I can guarantee that will be false. As I said before, no other manufacturer accounts for this. Most other manufacturers offer 85A as their hardest bushings which is soft enough for this to not be an issue.
Needless to say, we are fixing the issue. We are reworking our control arm bushings as we speak. We just have to tweak the dimensions a bit. Anyone who has an issue with our 95A control arm bushings can let us know and we will send out free replacements once the tweaking is complete. After all, we still warranty our polyurethane for life.
I should also mention that this is only an issue for rotational moving bushing parts such as control arms. It is not an issue for stationary bushings like the cradle bushings or the diff bushings.
To add to the original topic of this thread. We are designing a zerk related something and some new bushing features that will efficiently retain the grease on the bushings.
02-19-2014, 07:20 PM
#18
Awesome! Kind of glad I have not ordered my front control arm bushings yet! Or installed my rear upper control arm bushings! At any rate thanks for the reply, and let us know of the solve/when the new bushings are available. Also, we can still Order red yes? If like all my bushings to match! Thanks again!
