cornelje

After a few trackdays on sticky tires I'm tired of spending more effort holding myself in the seat than driving. It's time to get better seats.

I put roughly 6k miles on the street and 2500 on the track per year so they still need to be comfortable. I am not going to put in a cage since it still sees street duty.

I was looking at the sparco chrono street. Anybody use these?

I understand I would need to weld seat belt anchors on the pillar to keep my 3 points. What kind of air bag issues would I be facing?

I came across a product before that uses the rear seat belt receivers for a 4 point harness system. Is this the way to go?

Lastly, I need more camber. I'm on stock suspension and could only get 1.75 degrees up front. If I got the kw coilovers and lowered it, would I be able to get more camber or am I going to have to fab up plates for the top strut mounts?

Thanks guys in advance.

NIKDSC5

iTrader: (10)

Ok, first off you cover 2500 miles a year at the track!? wow. Next, have you used the search function? A couple of people have swapped seats out with after market.

The air bag issue I'm not sure there has been a fix found yet.

The seat belt anchoring last I knew using the rear belt mounting locations was a no no.

For the camber look up NAF a forum member. He notched his lower control arm mounting locations so that it can be moved outward allowing for more camber adjustment.

These are all questions either NAF or Junior1 would have more expertise on than me.

Fweasel

iTrader: (6)

The V is a new car to me so I don't have much direct advice there, but I do have plenty of track time under my belt and will recommend anyone that spends that much time on the track should be looking at a 5-point harness design, or 6, 7... and not just 4. After spending weeks researching seats, harnesses and a cage for my last track car, the take home was that 4-points were dangerous. The lack of a sub belt (crotch) prevents the lap belt from staying square across your hips in a frontal crash. In a 4point harness, properly tensioned shoulder belts are always at odds with the lap belts, pulling them upwards and out of position, which then slacks the shoulder belts. Once the lap belts ride up, you run the risk of submarining under the lap belt in a crash.

The only 4 point method I saw that logically addressed this issue was a Schroth clubman harness with ASM shoulder belts. It clipped and/or bolted into rear belt pick-ups and used the factory belt clasp up front, obviously vehicle specific. They had a stich that would rip and slightly slack one shoulder belt in a crash allowing the torso to pivot over the hips and prevent submarining under the lap belt.

Damn, I wish I was tracking 2,500 miles a summer...

ryridesmotox

Fweasel, move to California, we track all year. I don't know what all this summer talk is lol

Cornelje, there are cages that use removable door bars so you can get in and out while street driving. Might want to look into that, if that is your main hangup on the cage. I'm not sure how good of a fasten point you could get for a harness bar in the rear of the V1. But having a cage back there to fasten a harness to is much better. I think the generally accepted practice with a harness bar is to attach it at around shoulder height. If I understand your first post correctly the attachment is in the buckle so that is pretty low.

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

See here.

As stated above, no. A lot of clubs (or even the tracks themselves) won't let you run with a 4-point, and it's unlikely that a system that clips into the rear seatbelt buckles will maintain the proper installation angle. (If the angle is too far below horizontal then you risk spinal compression injuries as your body tries to move forward and the shoulder harnesses exert a restraining force that is back and down.)

There's also the submarining issue, as Fweasel said. I have a 4-point Schroth harness in my Subaru that I use just for auto-x events. It holds me nice and tight in the seat, which is all I'm concerned about for auto-x. Even with the lap belt adjusted as tight as I can get it (so that I can barely clip the buckle together), when I tighten the shoulder straps I can feel them lift the lap belt. It's just not an optimal design. I've done plenty of track days in that car since I've had the 4-point installed, but I use the stock belt on track.

One thing you can try with the stock seats and belts is a CGLock. It certainly doesn't turn the stock seat into a racing seat, but it helps keep you in place a bit better.

I'm at around -2.2* up front with KWs installed and ride height set within their recommended adjustment range. I vaguely recall that I've had as much as -2.5*, but I dialed it back a bit when I wasn't doing as many events. Rear is the same - about -2.2* now, but it'll do more than that.

liqidvenom

iTrader: (2)

the fact that you do 2500miles/yr on track is awesome. Is it the same track or different ones?

I would suggest you put some type of cage in the vehicle if you are on the track that often.

UnsafeAtAnySpd

That's a lot of track miles! I'm jealous. But yeah, a roll bar at the least may be a good investment. I have one in my car and fixed back race seats and still drive it on the street. In fact I drove the car cross country and found the seats to be comfortable.

isis

iTrader: (1)

I think the hangup with putting a cage in a street car involves driving on the street in a caged car without a helmet. Pretty sure that's not a good idea.

cornelje

^This is my reason for not putting in a cage.

I'm a bigger guy @225lbs so even with my cglock I'm getting yanked all over pulling 1.25+g. I also have a longer torso so headroom with a helmet isn't exactly great.

I did some searching around and couldn't really find a straight answer about airbags. From what I gathered the resistor trick takes care of the driver's side. I'd be fine with just swapping the drivers seat since it seems the passenger airbag sensor isn't easy to work around.

AAIIIC: How well does using a 3pt belt with a race bucket keep you planted? I rode with a guy in his boss 302 mustang that had deep stock seats and 3pts and it felt far better. Per your advice, this is the route I'm leaning.

The reason why I put so many track miles is that last year at a charity auction I was the high bidder on a lifetime membership with one of the clubs I run with. Tracks are Gingerman, Grattan and Waterford Hills here in Michigan, as well as Mid Ohio and Calbogie. I've also got a really awesome supportive wife that camps with me at every event and she's even doing her first trackday this weekend.

Fweasel

iTrader: (6)

Dibs

Junior-1

iTrader: (1)

IMO you are looking at the CG Lock otherwise a race seat with full harness. This car just isn't the platform for the best of both worlds. Its either all in or not.
The closest would be Mike's setup with Sparco's otherwise a full cage like mine but then your not going to be going through the drive thru no more

For the additional camber, back in the day GM Performance made upper control arm mounts that were modified to allow for greater negative camber up front.
Rather than filling and retapping the mounts, Phoenix engineered a way to insert an oblong spacer that accomplishes basically the same thing.
I believe they allow for greater than -2 degrees up front. I'm not sure of the process on these so its best to contact them but they are on my car...

Pricing is $165 for the modification IIRC

Get in touch with Joe Aquilante @ Phoenix Performance 610.482.0141, tell him Chris sent ya

gangnam style

lifetime membership for (presumably) unlimited tracktime? nice.no readily available camber kits like these for V1's huh? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pre-1410111

Junior-1

iTrader: (1)

Not sure if there would be interference with the strut tower brace with something like that or if its the way our control arms mount.

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

I actually don't have racing buckets in the Subaru, just some Recaro SEs (which used to be their entry level model years ago). Better bolstering definitely makes a big difference. The more "sporty" seats + stock belts + CG Lock certainly isn't as good as actual buckets, but it's worlds better than the V's stock setup.

That looks like a top mount for a MacPherson strut type suspension, so no help in our situation. The camber on our cars is determined by the upper and lower control arms, not the angle of the strut. That picture Junior posted shows the GMPP upper arms and mounts; you can see how the upper arms are shifted inboard by offsetting the mounting points on the "ears" where the arms bolt into place.

Naf

iTrader: (1)

I have installed sparco seats and included 6 point seatbelt harness. Two on the floor infront two from the sides where the seat is bolted down and two from the rear anchor bolts. for the airbag you will need a small resister, i think 3.3ohms. they will not allow the airbag lilght to be triggered.

As i will be travellin soon i dont have access to my car for pix. Search the Caddi forum for my earlier posts about the seatbelts seat and airbag trick.

UnsafeAtAnySpd

In my car, there is no way my head is coming into contact with a bar. If it somehow does, I'm assuming I'd already be dead anyway.

Also, aftermarket seats will give you the added benefit of more helmet room. Mine sit much lower than stock (Sparco Evos btw).

barrok69

If you install a removable roll hoop behind the front seats that spans the two B pillars and a V shaped towel bar across the bottom two seat bracket bolts you can easily run a 6pt setup through the stock seats, which is what I use in my cars for track days. I'd recommend a Hans with a 6pt too.

Grattan is fun with all the elevation and camber and a 6pt works great.