chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

The whole thing? That in itself takes a lot of patience. If I gave up now then everything I did would be meaningless, so I'm sort of stuck with it. And to be fair the second pcm is just to take needing a tuner out of the equation.
I saw your thread earlier, looks like you are just starting out but you seem to be doing the right thing by reading about other people's mistakes. Make sure you know what you want the first time, it makes it cheaper and easier in the long run. Did you post pics of your car anywhere?

Orbitorange

I havent posted pics yet. I will post one now in my thread so you can see my GTO

tta656

iTrader: (5)

I got lost in all the pages...are you running the 200 tranny,if not.. why??

great links thru-out this thread..

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

It's still in the car for now and for simplicity's sake I probably will run it. I'd prefer not to as I think a 6 speed would be ideal, but time is not on my side and at this point I just want to get the seats swapped, the motor running and the exhaust done.

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

Not really a car update (though I hope to have one this weekend when I go home for Thanksgiving break) but an update nonetheless - I came home tonight to find a check from FedEx. Not a huge one, but it covers the cost of new parts plus a decent chunk of the shipping of the seats themselves. Since the guy I bought them from spent so much of his own money to help get them to me I figure I'll give him most of the money left over after I get them fixed; seems only right since there is no way he could have broken even on these things. Moral of the story is if FedEx breaks something, and they will, fill out a claim online ASAP and attach any and every type of support document you can. The delivery people are pretty much *** clowns but everyone I spoke to in claims was as helpful as I would expect anyone doing that thankless job to be. Only took a few phone calls to follow up on the status and then poof, repair money. Just for the sake of clarity I'm not endorsing the use of FedEx, I hate them and should never have had to deal with this crap, but despite the millions of horror stories floating around online it is possible to get money out of them when they mess up, so always try to do so. Now I just hope the check doesn't bounce...

Orbitorange

FedEx is the worst. I know everyone has bad experiences with all couriers but it seems like 100% of everything I get through fedex is damaged. They bent the hell out of my quarter panels when I ordered new ones for my GTO. Honestly sometimes before I but from a catalog or online I check to see if fedex is the courier and if so I ask if they can use someone else. Most the time the answer is sadly no.

Glad you got a check, thats gotta make you feel somewhat relieved.

leon phelps

I had a package that was shipped from philly to chicago. I could have kicked it there with less damage. Fedex drug their feet for two months then denied my claim. I dumped them as a carrier, then they had the ***** to call and ask why I was no longer using them.

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

So I went through and checked all the wiring and all that and everything seems okay. What I have someone turn the key while I listen I can hear the injectors pulsing and every other second I'll hear the pop of a cylinder firing but it the sound comes from the air filter on the intake, almost like it's firing when the intake valve is open. I had initially thought the cam sensor might be an issue, but from reading around it seems it isn't even completely mandatory for the engine to run and people have even driven around with the wrong cam sprocket without any real issue (other than the initial second or two it takes the computer to figure out it needs to make a change). Not sure what else to try at this point. I was going to try and put the hp efi in, but considering it will be dark in a few hours and today is my only day to work on it I think I'll save that for next summer.

jlay

iTrader: (2)

Don't know if it will help you or not, but I remember reading that if you have the coils on the wrong side it will do the same thing. Swapped coil rails from each side and it fired up. Hope it may help.

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

Just for ***** and grins I gave it a shot - no change.
Pulled a few plugs before it got dark, not sure what, if anything, to make of it. Tomorrow I'll pull them all to vent any fuel that might be hanging out in there above the cylinder.

douglee25

1. Recheck your wiring. Do you have all your 12v supplies hooked up correctly? It needs 12v at run and crank. Any fuses blown?
2. Verify with a gauge that you're building fuel pressure.
3. Are your injectors pulsing? Test to verify.
4. Check to see if you're getting a crank signal.
5. You got the VATS disabled correct?
6. Is your battery fully charged? Not cranking slow, correct?

Doug

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

Doug, thanks for the tips
1. None of the harness was moved since the last engine was in here and running, but I did go through and check everything. I'm going to dig up my wiring diagram and go through it one more time though after lunch.
2. Fuel pressure is good, 55-58ish.
3. I don't know how to test that, but I hear them (or what I think is them) when listening while someone else cranks it. There is also fuel on the plugs. This leads me to think that there simply isn't any spark.
4. Do not know how to do that but I will try and find out how, I pulled and checked the plug though just to be sure it was clean.
5. Yes, vats has been gone for a while.
6. Battery is good, solid 12v or so on both gauges in the car (one for the stereo and the other in dash). Also put it on the charger for a while just to top it off.

I pulled a valve cover and everything moves so the timing chain isn't broken (not that it would be, but at this point might as well check). It's getting sort of frustrating because it almost has to be something simple. Going to try an obdII scanner tomorrow if I stay in town. This page looks like a pretty orderly way of troubleshooting - http://www.hotrodlane.cc/New%20LS%20...0Not%20Run.htm

Also found this - https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...1iTkimuPnit2-Q

I was thinking about taking advantage of the weather and putting in the holley stuff but when looking over the harness I noticed there was a plug for a MAT sensor, I'm guessing this is the same as the IAT? If so I'll have to do some splicing and soldering since I'm using the truck 5 wire maf/iat combo. Also, I might or might not have to buy an auxiliary harness to make the hp efi run the electric fans, still looking into that. Not a huge issue either way but I'm trying to minimize surprises.

douglee25

3. If you have fuel on the plugs, it must be pulsing, but you can verify with a multimeter.

4. During cranking, do you see any rpm on the tach? If not, potentiall the crank sensor. Double check the wiring on the crank sensor and make sure it hasn't touched the exhaust at some point and burnt the insulation.

Doug

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

I don't see anything on the tach because it doesn't get power during cranking, I'll put rewiring it on the top of my to do list for next break, but the wiring itself looks good. Thanks for the ideas.

Since I was running out of time I decided to put the engine stuff aside and look at test fitting the seats.
Here are a couple shots of the BMW seat compared to the Chevelle one.





The BMW seat is a bit narrower and obviously far more contoured than the flat and wide Chevelle seat. The BMW seating surface is a bit lower (though it raises a bit) and the headrest is higher. The BMW seat is also much heavier, I think they are something like 75lbs each, but that's not a huge deal as I'm not terribly worried about weight. Unlike the Chevelle seat rails which more or less stand on legs, the BMW seats are totally flat and the underside of the seat is stuffed to brim with motors and wires. Despite this it looks like with a short spacer under the rear middle area of the rail the seats will fit pretty well. There are two little tabs sticking out toward the doors that will have to be cut off, but other than that I think these will work.

Tabs to cut -




The electronic bits barely clear, with a small spacer I think it will be fine.


The sun was shining basically directly into the garage making it hard to get a picture at a better angle so this will have to do for now. The perspective makes it look like the headrest is hitting the roof but there is plenty of room, even with the headrest raised all the way up. Unless it's raining I don't plan on having the top up anyway.



I wasn't able to get any farther than the rough test fit pictured above but at least I know it should be fairly easy to finish up later. At this point though I packed it up and called it a day, everything else is going to have to wait until next month.

Edit- I don't know if I posted this already, but Chrylser Sebring seats are another option, though perhaps not quite so straightforward. This guy goes into more detail about it, I think they turned out pretty good - http://www.corvairkid.com/sebring.htm

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

Christmas break starts in a week so I'm trying to get all my part-related ducks in a row; sadly I only get 6 days or so to be at home and this means I won't have time to order and wait for parts once I'm there. I think I will go ahead and use the Holley efi stuff, and according to Holley tech support if I want it to run my electric fans I need to buy this: No big deal I figure.

What I am unsure about (but forgot to ask the tech guy about) was what to do for the MAT sensor, which I am pretty sure is manifold air temp or something similar, basically IAT if I understand correctly. At least that's what I've read here: http://www.ls1.com/forums/f6/list-se...hey-do-159572/.

Anyway, my current setup is the 5-wire truck MAF/IAT combo. The HP efi doesn't need the maf at all so I was thinking about buying a new MAT sensor and just plumbing it in the intake tube somewhere close to the TB. Does anyone see an issue with that approach? The alternative is cutting the plug off the holley harness and splicing it into the IAT part of the MAF; this is something I would prefer not to do. I'll call Holley again and see what they say.
Edit- Called them and there are two options. The first is to splice the IAT wires from the stock sensor onto the holley harness and recalibrate it in the software. The second is to buy this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-9920-107, plug it in and stick it in the intake elbow somewhere. I plan to take the second route and sell the truck MAF, as long as I get $35 for it I figure I'm okay.

While the interior is out I'm thinking I might as well put in power windows. I sort of like the appeal of old-time roll ups but from a practical perspective this car is so big it's impossible to roll the windows up or down without pulling over and getting out of the car. This is a pain in the ***, as I'm sure you can imagine. I have a complete power window/ door lock setup out of a 71 Cutlass convertible but installing it would be a massive undertaking requiring removal of basically everything inside the doors. The Spal stuff would, from the looks of it here http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304168, be a much simpler install. The only reason I bought the original stuff was so I could use the automatically unlocking seat backs I found on ebay. It's a pretty scarce setup that unlocks the front seat backs when you open the doors, making rear seat e- and ingress simpler. Neat stuff but since I pulled those seats I can't use it now anyway.
This is the kit I'm looking at: http://www.a1electric.com/Merchant2/...=SPAL-KIT4-262 Edit- Ordered the kit, they knocked a few bucks off (nothing major, but a buck is a buck) and it should be here by Friday. Wasn't really looking to spend any more money or add to the list of things to do but I have a feeling this will be one of those "why didn't I do this sooner" types of upgrades.
Also ordering a good multimeter, I think I should have done that a long time ago.

douglee25

Good plan. Keep us posted.

Doug

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

Not too much interesting lately but I just got home for break and found a couple packages waiting for me. One was just the EFI auxiliary harness and temp sensor which I hope to play with tomorrow, the other was the SPAL stuff. It's cold as ***** in the garage so I can't mess with it too much, but here is the gist of it for others looking at the kit.

Here is the basic motor/ crack assembly, it looks to be sturdy and of decent quality. It bends and flexes enough that I think getting it in place shouldn't be too hard.
IMG_0098



http://www.a1electric.com/Merchant2/...=SPAL-KIT4-262

My kit came with 7 illuminated push/ pull switches which I prefer to the flat rocker type in most kits, they just feel more factory to me. The housings for the switches are sturdy and made of solid plastic with an almost soft rubbery sort of exterior; certainly nice enough but I don't plan to use them. The wiring harness looks to be labeled well enough and the ends are unterminated, something I consider a plus as this way I can solder and heat shrink everything myself. At a quick glance all of the needed terminals seem to be included, there are also bunches of gears, screws and mounting brackets as well as plenty of instructions.
IMG_0092



The rear switches I plan to put where the ash tray was which shouldn't be too much of an ordeal. After looking at it I think it might be cool to try and mount the switch under the stock chrome flip lid.
IMG_0095

Assuming I can either find a wick for the kerosene heater I dug out of the garage or just go buy a completely new heater I hope to make some solid progress over the next week or so. Going to try to whip up some seat brackets while I'm at it, I found this General brand contour gauge that is both made of metal and in the USA that should come in handy. No more playing with markers and cardboard.
IMG_0099

Not all of this is relevant but it has some good pictures http://www.buickperformanceclub.com/PW.htm

LS2GS

I like that power window kit!
I have been running my engine for a few hundred miles now without plugging in the IAT. I have not had my car dyno tuned yet but when Gary from Wegner Motorsports helped me get the car running, he told me that I will be fine without one. Wegners has a lot of experience with the holley efi, and more experience with the ls engines(wegner motorsports worked with NASCAR and helped develope their ls spec engines and the use of the efi systems), so I feel that I was not misled. I do plan on putting the intake temp sensor in my intake eventually but it certainly is not essential for running your engine. I hope that helps a little with that delema! If you want help with the start up procedure I can get you in contact with Gary or Casey, Gary got me through the program over the phone!

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

I got the old harness out (pain in the ***), the new one in and all the basic setup stuff done and ready to start the car. Turn the key a bit, fuel pump primes, turn it all the way - nothing. Awesome. After some fumbling around inside and on the computer I notice my reverse lights are on, I think the switch in the shifter is going bad but for some reason the car thought it was in reverse. After fixing that I tried again it turned over, sort of, but it does the exact same thing it did with the last harness. Called up Holley's tech support (which for this product at least is actually pretty good) and we changed some stuff around in the computer and tried again. Same old same old. I get an rpm reading on my laptop so the crank sensor is good, and the only thing really left from the original harness is the cam sensor. In fact, other than the crank sensor the cam sensor is the only new sensor being used on this motor. It is the only thing that has changed electronically since I was successfully running the LS1. Going to buy a new sensor first, and if that doesn't fix it I'll crack the front of the motor open and double check I put the right cam gear on (I've done stupider things).
The holley system itself though is pretty nice and the instructions are clear. The wires that branch off the main harness, with the excepti0n of the wideband O2 wire, are all pretty short. Another 6 inches on each of them would be perfect. The main power cable is about 13 feet long though, which looks like it will reach from the under-the-dash pad mounting of the ecm to the battery in the trunk.
After taking a break to warm up I got one window kit installed, it's an easy job just a lot of trial and error.

DC True

Nice detailed build