rotor vs. piston

iTrader: (3)

I don't have any info' but I'm hoping some members here do in regards of state regulations regarding swaps.

Rule of thumb since I can recall is an engine available in the US w/ full emissions for the year of the engine and same age or newer than the chassis it's going in.

Does anyone have any hard facts by state?


For example, in your state you swapped a 2005 lsx engine into a 1999 BMW 5 series, what is required to make it 100% legal if it's possible?

mice13

iTrader: (9)

thats a pretty good ? worst case find someone that will look the other way

71ANTICARB

iTrader: (23)

In most states it prolly not going to be 100% legal, since all of your emissions are based in the factory engine.

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Every state is different.. I once tried to get info on other state by asking other in other states. didn't get much response. I can give you the link for California. Which is pretty much the hard fact for other states or what they are based on..

http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResource...uidelines.html

I once talked to someone in Seattle, WA at there DMV, didn't really get much on there rules and regulation on there laws..


I found this on the Texas Department of Public Safety

Engine Swaps

Rules regulating engine swapping are not make/model specific. The simple rule is that a vehicle must have all emissions components that were present when it was manufactured, which may include:

PCV - positive crankcase ventilation
ACL - air cleaner (thermostatic air cleaner)
AIS - secondary air injection
EGR - exhaust gas recirculation
EVAP - evaporative emission
CAT - catalytic convertor
SPK - spark control
FR - fillpipe restrictor
O2S - oxygen sensor
Read more information about emissions tampering regulations.


Reconstructed or Rebuilt Vehicles
All vehicles used on the public highways are required to meet all of the state equipment laws and requirements; therefore, reconstructed or rebuilt vehicles which are using the public highways are also expected to meet all of the state equipment laws and regulations. Reconstructed or rebuilt vehicles in many instances fail to meet state requirements and, therefore, are not legal for use on the public highways.

All reconstructed or rebuilt vehicles (sand or dune buggies or hot rods) must comply with inspection requirements for the class of motor vehicle it is being inspected as, such as car, truck, motorcycle, or motor-driven cycle.

Be sure to check reconstructed or rebuilt vehicles for all required items of inspection with particular attention to the lighting devices. Head lamps shall be of a type acceptable by the Department. No modifications are allowed that will change the original design or performance of any lamp. Only acceptable automobile head lamps may be used on cars and trucks. Either the 7-inch head lamps or both dual head lamps (type 1 and type 2) may be used. Only acceptable motorcycle head lamps may be used on motorcycles, motor-driven cycles, and mopeds.

All lighting devices must be of an acceptable type that meet Department standards and must comply with the mounting heights as specified in the inspection requirements.

The year model of a reconstructed vehicle will be the same year in which it was reconstructed and not the year of original manufacture. Therefore, the inspection requirements would be for the model year of the vehicle (same as the year of reconstruction) or the year model of the engine itself, whichever is the later model.

Motor vehicles used for competitive racing, such as modified stock cars, dragsters, and hot rods may be inspected. When such a vehicle is presented for inspection, all rules and regulations regarding the inspection of the vehicle will apply. This applies to brake requirements, exhaust systems, as well as any other item required in these provisions.


Kit Kars
Vehicles have to meet the emissions standards for the year the vehicle is assembled. Vehicle manufacturers have to certify that their vehicles meet EPA emissions standards. A lot of kit car manufacturers also comply with this requirement. If you purchase one of these kit cars, follow the instructions on assembly, including the emissions components. You should be able to pass an emissions test just like any other new car.

Just as the EPA does not allow an individual to reverse engineer a vehicle to defeat emission standards, they do not allow an individual to build a brand new "old" vehicle to bypass emissions standards. It is possible if you actually use old parts (like a 1965 engine, or complete 60s frame and powertrain) that the vehicle will be registered as that model year (replica), but this is a TxDOT issue. However it is registered, is how DPS inspection stations will test it.

G-Body

iTrader: (4)

In Il the engine must also be from the same class of vehicle. So car engine into a car and truck engine into a truck. But in IL they no longer test cars older than 1995 so...

This would make for a very good list, but I don`t know how possible it is to get all the info for all the states. Heck I couldn`t even get a straight answer from IL when I was trying to find out if it would be legal to swap a 2001 camaro LS1 into a 2001 caddy catera. They are both cars, but since when they plugged in to the computer it would send the vin/model for a camaro back instead of catera no one could tell me if it would be legal. Only solution I could come up with was to keep the caddy PCM plugged in and tied in just enough that they could check for codes on it. In the end I decided not to even try it and bought a 85 Monte SS to do a swap on.

Lil'John

CA isn't as difficult as people make it out to be. Usually the people who have issues are screwing around or trying to piece together an engine.

In CA, it is VERY simple:

1. Donor engine must be same year or newer than the target vehicle
2. Donor engine must be same "class" or lighter than the target vehicle... you can NOT put a truck engine of any sort into a car... so no LQ4s into cars.
3. Donor engine must retain ALL smog related devices of the donor vehicle. This would includes everything on the engine and anything the PCM would read such as gas tank pressure, VSS, etc.
4. Any parts on the donor engine must be smog compliant parts (ie carb or factory)
5. Donor engine and transmission combination must be available from the factory and the PCM must be for the combination. As an example, I have yet to find a CA version of an LQ4 with NV4500(or any manual trans for that matter)... so such a swap would NOT be legal.

One that was never clear to me was the reported "OD" rule some have run into: "if the donor engine came with an OD trans, it must be swapped in with an OD trans". Back in 98, I attempted a 88 5.0L TBI swap into a 75 Toyota Land Cruiser. The 88 5.0L TBI came from a Camaro which obviously had an OD. My swap used a SM465 truck transmission(no OD). When I went to the ref, there was no issue with the transmission.

Also, if you call about engine swaps, I highly doubt DMVs of any sort can tell you anything reliable. In CA, you want to talk with the smog referees. DO NOT talk with CARB or BAR officials. They give a LOT of misinformation. I called about engine swaps in CA about 2 months ago and the above information was what I got.

One such misinformation is about engine blocks. The BAR guy I talked with claimed block had to be same as donor. Ref told me that block could be any type as long as all the stuff bolted onto the block were from the donor... in layman's terms, an iron blocked LS1 IS smog legal in CA if it was assembled to LS1 specs using factory or CARB approved replacement parts and electronics. Yes, I specifically asked about rebuilding an LS1 with an iron block.

waterhook1

iTrader: (1)

I have a 1974 TriumphTR6 that has a 2002 Ls1 +T56 installed.

That year of car doesn't need to be smogged. When trying to register with DMV, they sent me to a CHP shop to match up Vin numbers. Well of course the engine and transmission didn't match up. So I had my paperwork showing the VIN number for engine and transmission matched up out of a donner car. I also ran a Car fax on the donner car. All CHP did was add a ID plate by my body VIN plate linking that engine and transmission to the car. So when they pull up that TR6 VIN number it shows that the car has an Ls1 & T56 in it. The car is CA legal and driving it is very fun needless to say. The engine has all smog removed rear O2's gas tank sensor etc.

bczee

iTrader: (12)

To be technically correct, your pre-75 car does need to have it OEM Smog equipement, it just is exempt from being tested. And therefore everyone said it doesn't need to be smogged.. but the law is the law !... it's just a loop hole we all use.

claytonisbob

iTrader: (1)

You would think that states would be a little more accepting of swapping newer engines into older cars. A fuel injected LQ4 is going to save fuel and output less emissions than a BB 396 (402) ever did. But since it is a "truck" engine CA is going to ban it (it's a lower compression LS2!)? Ridiculous! I would think they shouldn't need to pop the hood. Just stick a sensor on the tail pipe and make sure it's tolerable for the age of the car. How many swapped cars are on the road really?

Plus I don't think it's realistic to think people should have to instal cats and a modern fuel tank with all of the evap canisters and overflow fill necks ect.</rant>

In Texas I didn't have to do any emissions testing being my Chevelle is old enough. And I know the people that live outside of the major cities (ie small towns) here don't have to do emissions or odb2 testing ever. It's nice either way because my inspection was $12.50 being they only checked the lights, horn, brakes ect. (in Dallas)

waterhook1

iTrader: (1)

bczee,

That is correct that all the smog equipment should be on my 2002 Ls1. This was the very thing I was scared of when at the CHP office. I didn't have room for any cats that's for sure! Heck I only have a 25" driveline LOL!

hookemdevils22

iTrader: (12)

OBDII (96-newer) vehicles should not have to go through the sniffer - they do a gas cap check and plug n' play (at least in AZ). It would be interesting to see if an LSx-swapped vehicle would pass OBDII emissions, especially if the emissions systems were removed. Hell, maybe I'll take the Nova through just to see if what would happen.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

I'm a rebel. I just build 'em and don't worry about it. However where I live in Missouri, we don't have the most stringent testing. The general consensus of places I've had cars inspected was "if it looks OK it probably is." Now if the car has some obvious running or leaking (including exhaust) issues - no fly, but we all knew that.

Pop N Wood

iTrader: (1)

This SEMA link gives the emission inspection requirements for all 50 states

http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62776

rotor vs. piston

iTrader: (3)

Registration requirements are more so what I'm after.

I guess one way we're lucky, I live in Maryland, is that we only have one "saftey inspection". After that it's just a plug in OBDII test or a sniffer test for older cars. So for what I'm doing, having bought and have had the stock car registered and will do a swap when I get a chance to I don't have to worry about someone inspecting a LSx swapped car.

But for my truck, it wasn't running when I had it pulled up to MD (was in the military is how I ended up here) I had it swapped before I could get it inspected. So I was shitty bricks trying to figure that one out. But then it's historic, over 20 years old, so I just registered it as such and I'm bombing around town happy and mostly legal.

I keep thinking I'd rather do a newer car for my next swap, currently beating around in a '93 BMW until I get the chance to do a LSx swap in it. But w/ new chassis becoming cheaper and cheaper I think it would be nice to have a newer car, but don't want to deal w/ getting caught up in the legality of it.

And no, I have no issue retro fitting any and all emissions equipment from a donor as needed. I would just love clear wording on what's permitted and not. But I think states not giving clear wording is very intentional... or at best just due to the percentage of drivers that are doing engine swaps is so small as to not warrant any real time to clarify the wording.

Also, I have to imagine there are plenty of law enforcement people into the hobby. I wonder if they don't participate in forums for a reason.

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Just a FYI.. Car and Light Duty Truck are of the same Emission standards and testing (for the most part) and equipment requirements.

That is the reason you can use a car or truck engine going into either. Read the fine print....

Also. Just cause your state or local DMV doesn't have it in there laws and policy and doesn't check for it.. doesn't mean you can do away or modify it. Federal law precedes your state and local DMV. And the Fed law said you pretty much can't do anything ! (Changing a Bumper, Wheels, etc to some other one can illegal !)

Common sense and just doing it because it is a better smog engine (less emission and more MPG).. seem to take a back seat to having laws allowing you to do swaps. I am no Lawyer but I suspect that States can get in trouble with the Fed’s is they don't follow their Federal Laws and standards. (Funding for state project could be at risk).

And as far as clear wording. It pretty much mean you have to use everything that is related from the donor.. Consider it as having to pass it as the donor, your 93 BMW just became a 2002 Z28 ! .

As to why they need OD trans or other requirements. The engine was tested and passed with those requirement (donor car).. EPA/MPG ratings come in to play..

Yes, sometime you can get around it some of these requirement, depending on who the State Ref is.. as was stated, Clear Wording really comes down to understanding and interpretation of the law/policy by who is inspecting/passing you.

And by no means am i trying to talk you out of it. just make sure you understand the policy and law. and it well go much better than trying to work around them..

Lil'John

The ref I talked with told me that NO a half ton truck engine is NOT a valid swap into a car. I mentioned installing a 5.3L half ton truck into a Camaro.

He did say that 5.3L into a "mini" truck such as an S10 was valid.

As for the cats and restricted fill necks, in CA I believe most if not all vehicles requiring smog already have provisions on them.

While trying my swap with my Land Cruiser, the ref said specifically that because my Land Cruiser did not have the shielding for cats, I didn't HAVE to install them but if I couldn't pass the sniffer, those were the first thing to get put on.

bczee

iTrader: (12)

As I said before..(Clear Wording really comes down to understanding and interpretation of the law/policy by who is inspecting/passing you) . as you go from one ref to another. You are going to get different answer and options. They say to talk to as many as you can... and once you find one that give you the right anwser.. use him to re-cert your car.

Lil'John, Where are you located ?

philntx

iTrader: (8)

I think it would be extremely difficult to gather all of the information, post it for all states and then keep it up to date.

Here's the guidance I received from the State of Texas DOT when I asked for assistance before building my truck.

"I'm planning an engine swap into my 2000 S10 Blazer. They engine will be a 6 liter powerplant/transmission from a 2003 Escalade. The engine will also have a Magnuson MP112 supercharger. It will not be an off-road truck. I'll send you the complete details in a separate email.

Reply:
This modification can be done just as long as it is done professionally, meaning that the complete OBDII system from the 2003 Escalade/Silverado is installed into the 2000 S10 Blazer. It is necessary for the components being swapped in to be of the same year or newer than the recipient vehicle. Both of these vehicles are OBDII compliant, but the emissions control systems components will be different. In other words, you can't use the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) from the Blazer with the Silverado components, because then you are going to have problems. The 2000 S10 Blazer more than likely came equipped with a V-6 engine and its PCM is designed to operate with this powertrain for the proper air/fuel mixture, etc. The complete customized wiring harness, PCM, etc, from the 2003 Silverado will need to be installed into the 2000 S10 Blazer and it sounds like the company that you have chosen knows how to properly install the complete system, so you shouldn't have any problems. The S10 Fuel EVAP system should be OK to use with the Full size truck OBDII system, but please double check on this.

Make sure that your converted vehicle retains all of the emissions equipment. You should also install two catalytic converters and have 4 O2 sensors. Based upon your list of modifications to the engine and the mild camshaft, it should not have any issues passing.

When your newly modified vehicle comes to an inspection station for an OBDII emissions test, the vehicle will still be tested as a 2000 model and the vehicle will be tested for proper Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) operation as well as the presence of any Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) and the readiness monitor systems will also be tested. Please make sure that your company checks to make sure that the 2003 Silverado OBDII system is operating properly in your 2000 S10 Blazer after installation and that the readiness monitors are set to "Ready" and that there are no stored DTC's.

Make sure that your company verifies that your 2003 Silverado OBDII system is operating to specs after installation to avoid any driveability problems as well as to avoid any DTC's or readiness monitor problems. If your MIL is commanded ON with a stored DTC, your vehicle will FAIL the OBDII test or if there are more than 2 readiness monitors set to "NOT READY", your vehicle will FAIL the OBDII test. The readiness monitors are indicators used to find out if emissions components have been evaluated. In other words, if all readiness monitors are set to "Ready", then the emissions components have been tested by the OBDII system. If any of the readiness monitors are set to "Not Ready", like the EVAP & EGR system for example, then those emissions components have not been tested yet by the OBDII system. If a readiness monitor runs to completion (Ready) and if a problem is detected during the evaluation, then a DTC will be stored in the PCM and the MIL will illuminate.

Disconnecting the battery or clearing DTC's with a scan tool will reset all the readiness monitors back to "Not Ready" and the only way to reset all the readiness monitors back to "Ready" is to drive the vehicle through a drive cycle, which is basically a combination of city/highway driving at the required speeds for a specified amount of time. Usually, normal driving habits for about 30 minutes to an hour will reset the readiness monitors back to "Ready", but some vehicles require an exact drive cycle and it can be very time consuming. I just wanted you to be aware of all the facts when repairing or replacing an OBDII system, because if an OBDII system is not operating properly, then your vehicle will be exceeding the emissions standards and it could possibly fail the OBDII emissions test.

When you take your truck for inspection, if you've complied with everything we've talked about, it should pass. If you have any issues with the inspection facility, please have them call me at.......

Inspection: Passed OBD2 and sniffer with flying colors.

rotor vs. piston

iTrader: (3)

Agreed it would be difficult to keep up to date but we're already getting some good information. Thanks all to the contributors.

Tongboy

also worth noting - cali also apparently requires the headers to be emissions approved - aka the stockers off the car or something else with a CARB approval for the vehicle they are going into - this doesn't affect a lot of swap cars but it does affect ones that require swap headers to fit into the engine bay as I'm not aware of any swap headers that have CARB exemption.


Most non-CARB states the list gets pretty easy for OBD2 cars.

leave everything on the engine itself - PCV, fuel tank purge solenoid - you can usually delete the EGR & secondary air because the ls1 (at least f-body) doesn't monitor for their operation so if you're swapping into an obd2 car it would have to fail the visual inspection because it will pass the computer inspection being removed.

you'll need to hard wire the fuel tank level sensor on the PCM to a value within the Evap test range (100ohm's works great and is easy to get at radio shack) this will set a non-emissions related DTC you can ignore or disable - you're still technically emissions legit with this bypasses but you might get the occasional evap code depending on how much air it has to pull out of your tank and actual fuel levels.

you need a GM fuel tank pressure sender - they are almost universal from the early 90's to the early 2000's and can be found readily in junkyards.

you'll need to wire in your fuel tank evap stuff but wires usually match up fairly well.

connect your evap line from your tank to the evap purge solenoid line that is probably cut from the gm motor pullout.

hookup all 4 of your o2 sensors - you can get almost any obd2 GM 4 wire o2 sensor from a junkyard that works great for the rears - the sunfires & related have REALLY long leads and they work great (don't let anyone tell you longer leads means they don't get as hot, that's just ignorance)

wire your existing obd2 port into your pcm - this usually only requires the data line from the PCM.

i'm sure there are a few more ceaveats i'm forgetting but it really isn't that hard. You don't see a ton of non-GM car/truck obd2 swaps becuase people are afraid of the wiring but it really isn't that bad.