Toddoky

I've made some discoveries lately regarding the compatibility of the new Hooker/Holley1st-gen F-body components and the TruTurn set-up that may be of interest to those hoping to use these two systems together and thought I'd post it up here.


For those not aware, the original Holley 302-1 oil pan and older Hooker swap plates and headers for 1st-gens have been installed by some in combination with the Ridetech TruTurn system components. That compatibility unfortunately does not carry over to the new Hooker swap parts and new Holley 302-2 due to numerous design differences.


The biggest difference between the old and new set-ups is in the position of the engine in relation to the firewall and the header tube bend geometry/routing scheme around the steering box. The old Hooker swap headers were designed around the Hooker swap plates that positioned the engine pretty much against the firewall, which provided the needed room between the sump of the original Holley 302-1 oil pan and the TruTurn draglink adapter on these installations.


The new Hooker engine mounting kit was designed to provide approximately 1-1/2" between the engine and firewall to improve clearances and compatibility between multiple stock and aftermarket components used in this swap and also lowered the front of the engine to provide the user with more optimized U-joint working angles than possible with frame stands and swap plates. Because of this repositioning/lowering of the engine and the taller front height of the original Holley pan, the pan could not be installed in this application without major interference with the subframe crossmember, which is what prompted the design of the new Holley pan with its tightened geometries.


The position of the engine provided by the new mounts is required for the new Hooker headers to fit properly around the stock power steering box and is verified to create interference between the new Holley 302-2 oil pan and the installed Ridetech TruTurn draglink adapter on full lock turns. This means that the new Hooker/Holley system of parts is not wholly compatible with the TruTurn system in a bolt-in fashion.


However, for those with fabricating skills and the determination to use both of these aftermarket systems together there are two ways to make this installation a reality in my estimation as the bend geometry of the new Hooker headers seems to be compatible with the TruTurn drag link adapter and inner tie rod ends (when the engine is installed using the new Hooker 12618HKR engine mounting kit of course).

Both methods require the installer to use the original Holley 302-1 oil pan instead of the new 302-2 pan and either notch the subframe crossmember to clear the taller front profile of the 302-1 pan, or section the front of the pan with a step to allow it to clear the subframe with the engine installed with the new Hooker mount kit.


The reason this works is the sump length of the original 302-1 pan is approximately 2" shorter than that of the new 302-2 pan, which will provide the extra needed room between the front of the sump and the TruTurn draglink adapter. The attachment shows an overlay of the geometries between the original and new Holley pan.


The new Hooker components and the new Holley oil pan cannot be made to be compatible with the TruTurn system by moving the engine rearward from its designed position since that exact position is critical to the fitment of the headers around the steering box. Any attempts to achieve compatibility in this manner will result in a guaranteed failed installation.

I hope this info is helpful to many.

Toddoky

As an addition to this post and so readers understand, the reason I suggest modifying the front of the original Holley 302-1 pan to use in this case instead of notching the front of the new 302-2 pan is to prevent having to sacrifice oil capacity in the sump. If you are not adverse to the reduced capacity, you can achieve the same clearance by notching the new 302-2 pan if you have, or plan to buy one. The only other aluminum pans that have a short enough front profile to be installable with the new Hooker engine brackets are the 4th-gen F-body pan (it won't be compatible with the TruTurn parts however in this scenario) or the Mast pan.

Some other aftermarket steel pans may also have the needed geometry to make this combination workable.

Dub Silverado

iTrader: (5)

Todd, thanks for the moving all this information to a new thread and making it a little more clear.

Looking at dimensions of the steel pans on the market, i don't think any of them are a bolt in fix to the issue with Tru Turn. They either have the sump to far forward, or they are too deep in the front and will interfere with the crossmember.

The one pan that looks like its going to be closest is the mast. I would love to have a set of mounts to mock up with the mast pan and know for sure. My car is already powder coated and assembled just waiting for an engine, or at least test fit of an engine. I would prefer to stay away from notching the crossmember or modifying a pan.

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

Which is why Holley should create a bolt-in dry sump system I'm not sure where the oil tank would go, but I'm sure you could figure something out.

Toddoky

If you are willing to splurge on the Mast pan, I might be able to send a set of the engine mounts and a scratched up set of the new Hooker long-tubes your way so we can all get a conclusive answer to the compatibility of all these parts. I won't be able to get any traction on the effort to do so until next week however as the man in charge is out of town for business this week.

Toddoky

Hey Bandit, don't temp me with a good project.

cwylie

iTrader: (2)

CRAP!!! I just sold a 302-1 pan and got a 302-2 pan to find out it doesnt look like its going to work. How much clearance is needed? Did you verify this with an installation or is this based off measurements?

Toddoky

The assumption on non-compatibility is based off of research I've done online compared to measurements/photos I've taken of physical Hooker and Holley parts here cwylie. If you are determined to know for sure what you are going to be up against you may just want to subscribe here and follow along if I can put together a test fit of parts with the member above using a Mast pan he will provide on his own dime. Until a actual validation is made, we're all just guessing at it and making assumptions. I've learned a lot over the last couple of days doing research into this question and am relatively certain that the TruTurn drag link adapter is going to have interference issues with the front of the sump on the 302-2 Holley pan. As long as you don't try to install the pan, you can just return it for a refund and pick up the Mast pan...better to know now than after you've boogered up the pan.

cwylie

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I put the pan on the engine already and tossed the box. Have you reached out to Ridetech at all to see if they can provide a kit for you to test?

Dub Silverado

iTrader: (5)

My car is already together and has the Tru-Turn system installed. I am going to try to test fit some pans to see what works or how far off we are.

Toddoky

No, I haven't as I don't have a 1st-gen at my disposal that I can install the Ridetech parts on or the time on my schedule to perform such a validation test. This community is a great place to put such a validation test together to the benefit of everyone involved, so I hope this thread turns into such a test.

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

Wish I could do for a living what you're doing for a living!

Toddoky

The actual design and creation aspect of it is enjoyable, but you'd be surprised about how little of that actually takes place day by day and how much it's like working at any other job beyond that...you still have mounds of documentation to do, meetings upon meetings to attend (I'd rather TIG weld scrap metal together all day than attend meetings) and deadlines that have to be met. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing else I can think of that I'd rather be doing other than this, so things have worked out quite well for me in that regard.

cwylie

iTrader: (2)

Do you already have the new holley mounts and headers?

Dub Silverado

iTrader: (5)

Not yet I don't. I am ordering the mast pan and working with Todd on the mounts and headers. I am going to do some test fitting and report back to the crowd with what I find.

fishface

This is a really cool thread. Will definately be watching. Wonder if Mast would be willing to cough up a pan?? It would mean increased sales for them also if it works. If not, might we see Holley pan #302-3? Lol

Toddoky

I'm sure Mast will jump in a lend a pan for test fitting as they understand the sales implications you mentioned. Regardless of the outcome of the test fit, there won't be another Holley pan designed just to accommodate the Ridetech parts as doing so would requiring decreasing the oil capacity that is currently a feature of the 302-2 design and the sales volume would be too low to provide the required ROI for the casting tooling to do it. For those that don't mind the slight trade-off in oil capacity for be able to run the Ridetech Truturn and Hooker/Holley components together, the sump of the 302-2 can be shorted through fabrication to accomplish that just as 4th-gen F-body pans have been for years. For those unaware, the 302-2 provides the same fitment as a notched 4th-gen pan without giving up the oil capacity that is lost in doing so. This was made possible by pushing out the sides of the sump to gain back the volume lost in shortening it. This means you could notch the 302-2 pan to clear the TruTurn system and have oil volume similar to what you would have with a notched 4th-gen pan...I can hear zip wheels and TIG welders firing up already

cwylie

iTrader: (2)

Ok well I have the new holley pan and headers. The motor mounts are on the way as well as the steering components for tru turn. As soon as they show up I will be giving it a shot to see if it fits or not.

Stovebolter

I'll be watching with enthusiasm. I think you'll be happy with the overall engineering of the True Turn system. I am. It works well with OEM drivetrain anyway.

Modifying oil pan or notching the subframe?

Dub Silverado

iTrader: (5)

My MAST pan will be here Monday. Now just need some motor mounts and headers to test with it.