jimmythegrip

I recently drove a 2013 Camaro with a 6.2L LS3 and when I pushed the clutch in I slammed it to the floor, because I am so used to the stiff clutch in my LS6/T56 Camaro. At first I thought I broke the clutch on a brand new car! The dealer told me the pedal effort on newer vehicle is much lighter than the older clutches I'm used to.

I started looking into what it was that made such a difference. My hydraulic setup is pretty much the same as the LS3's (hydraulic master with centric slave). The only difference I can tell is the LS3 has a self-adjusting clutch made by Luk.

If I change my flywheel/clutch setup to an LS7/LS3 self-adjusting clutch, will I get the same light clutch feel of the 2013 Camaro I test drove or is there something else I'm missing here?

DW SD

It is worth measuring pedal leverage ratios, that the slave / master bores are identical before you convert. Once you've checked those items, there is no reason a flywheel / clutch / pressure plate swap won't gain you the same feel.
I suspect the feel is due to the springs / leverage setup in the pressure plate itself, more than the clutch plate. LUK probably makes them both.

Doug

jimmythegrip

I don't have a clue how to make those measurements. Is that something easy to do. Sorry for my ignorance. As for the pressure plate, Luk advertises one of the advantages of the SA clutch is reduced pedal effort. I'm just not sure how much of the reduction is due to the plate or if the other components contribute to that. I'm also pretty sure the reduced effort is due to the pressure plate and not the clutch plate (I just don't see how that would effect it), but I have to swap the entire clutch assembly, including flywheel, to make it work for my application.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

What kind of car are you working on? As the previous post indicated, there are many factors to consider when figuring out how to properly set-up hydraulic clutch actuation.

I have a LS7 clutch and I wouldn't exactly call my pedal "light." When I first installed it I was using a 3/4" bore MC and am now using a .700" bore MC. I can probably reduce that to a 5/8" bore MC and have a lighter pedal and still have enough travel at the bearing to release the clutch.

I would guess new cars have a lighter pedal due to long pedal travel and the use of a small bore MC to generate high pressure.

Andrew

jimmythegrip

this is on my 79 camaro (ls6/t56 swap) with a stock 98-02 f-body mc and slave. I'm not sure what the bore size it is. I will look into mc's a bit more. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

Pop N Wood

iTrader: (1)

I have an LS7 clutch on my Datsun and the pedal is pretty light. I'm running a 3/4 inch bore MC but an aftermarket hydraulic throw out bearing. A light pedal is one of the reasons I went with an LS7 unit.

Pedal ratios are pretty simple. Hook the clutch MC closer to the pedal pivot point and you will gain more leverage. This longer clutch pedal makes the clutch easier to operate but requires more pedal travel. Think of it like putting a cheater bar on a socket wrench.

jimmythegrip

Well, I just received my clutch/flywheel today. I was happy to find the package came with a new slave cylinder also ($330 free shipping). I found a used clutch pedal/MC assembly from a 2013 camaro for dirt cheap on ebay. Since the pedal assembly is an entire unit that mounts to the firewall, I think a can retro fit it into the 79. This way my entire clutch system will be from an LS3 and should have an identical feel.

74modified

While you are at it, I would recommend adding a remote/extended bleeder line. Much easier to use. You can pick them up from several vendors.

Goldhawg

iTrader: (7)

Make sure and update us on how this works out; I don't like my clutch feel (too stiff) and might go this route.

DW SD

If you look at rock auto.com on their master or slave parts for a specific vehicle, often they include the cylinder bore of each device in the description. It is worth checking that the bore of the old clutch master cylinder is the same diameter as the new vehicle application.

If so, the only variable would be the mechanical ratio of the pedal. You'd be measuring both pedals: (total length of to center of foot pedals vs. pivot points and lengths to the pushrods pickup point from the pivots). If those are similar ratios and the master cylinders are the same, you should have a very similar pedal feel to the new vehicle.

Doug

ckaram

iTrader: (1)

I daily drive a 2011 SS Camaro LS3. I just had a swap completed on my '68 Camaro ragtop (LS1/T56).

Currently has a Hawks Third Gen clutch master cylinder, very similar to the Tick master. The clutch pedal feel is much heavier. I believe it's due to the master cylinder. I'm running a stock 04 GTO pressure plate with upgraded clutch material.

It's all in the master. If you had a factory GM master it would get you closer. Also note where you mounted the clutch rod on the pedal (fulcrum) will also affect pedal effort.

jimmythegrip

I haven't had a chance to mess with anything yet, but I am now sure most of the increased effort is caused by the master and how it is mounted. It is a stock 98-02 ls1 master with a Detroit speed mounting bracket. The push rod for the master comes into the the pedal near the fulcrum and it is at a very steep angle. instead of coming into the pedal from the firewall it come into the pedal at an upward angle (much easier to see than explain). I am hoping to swap the clutch in the next couple weeks. I'll definitely post an update when its done. Thanks for the help!

ckaram

iTrader: (1)

The upward angle (connection to pedal up high) should actually make pedal effort easier than if the rod was parallel to the floor of the car. That's what I found in mine. Good luck!

jimmythegrip

I never thought of that. Well, here is what I'm going to try fitting into the car.
[IMG][/IMG]

jimmythegrip

Made some progress today. I installed the LS7 clutch and flywheel and attempted to install the new slave cylinder that came with it. I found the slave cylinder was WAY too long for the ls1 f-body bell housing. Apparently the vette bell housing is longer. So, I decided to just install the old stock LS1 SC with the f-body MC still installed (same setup I had before). I have not started the car yet to see how it drives (still need to re-install exhaust, driveshaft, ect...), but the pedal effort is awesome!! It feels more than 50% lighter than what I had in the car before the swap!! Since the clutch feels great the way it is now, I am not going to go through the trouble of trying to fit the 2010 Camaro MC/pedal into the car. I think it would reduce the effort a little more because the spring attached to the pedal actually assists the pedal to the floor and is in a neutral non-assisted position when it is returned. I for some reason thought it was a return spring, but it is not. Either way, I don't think it is worth the hassle to install it. Back to ebay it goes!

I have read that the self-adjusting LS7 clutch needs about 500 miles to break in and until then the pedal engagement will still be near the floor. After that it should come up to a stock engagement point.

I plan to get everything else put back together tomorrow and I will update on how it goes.

jimmythegrip

I drove the camaro to work today. Clutch feels awesome! The engagement point is low, but that is to be expected until it's broken in. It is still much higher than my previous setup. It's nice and smooth and I'm happy I did the conversion.

ckaram

iTrader: (1)

Nice!