LS1 AWD S-10 question
08-01-2005, 01:26 AM
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LS1 AWD S-10 question A friend of mine with a 99 s10 4cyl 5-speed has been contemplating an LS1 swap. After reading a little bit in here we started kicking around the idea of AWD. It's a 2wd truck but a thread on here gave us the idea of using a 4wd truck transfer case and making it into a AWD truck. Are there any major problems with the frame/suspension that would make this impossible to do? If he does the swap he is planning to lower it some and do some suspension modification but I was just wondering if this is something that can be done with a little grinding and fabrication or if it's one of those "you don't even want to consider thinking about doing it" type of things. thanks
08-01-2005, 06:04 AM
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Lingenfelter did an awd s-10 with a 4wd they just swapped out the transfer case to a cyclone transfer case. Only problem is how tight the engine compartment is. Not a lot of room and i think they had to mount the radiator in the bed of the truck.
Of course the twin turbo setup didn't help with the lack of space. It wouldn't be too bad to do. Look on S-10forums.com as there are a bunch of ls1 swapped s-10's.
Good luck man.
Nate
Of course the twin turbo setup didn't help with the lack of space. It wouldn't be too bad to do. Look on S-10forums.com as there are a bunch of ls1 swapped s-10's.
Good luck man.
Nate
08-01-2005, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Pyro97
A friend of mine with a 99 s10 4cyl 5-speed has been contemplating an LS1 swap. After reading a little bit in here we started kicking around the idea of AWD. It's a 2wd truck but a thread on here gave us the idea of using a 4wd truck transfer case and making it into a AWD truck. Are there any major problems with the frame/suspension that would make this impossible to do? If he does the swap he is planning to lower it some and do some suspension modification but I was just wondering if this is something that can be done with a little grinding and fabrication or if it's one of those "you don't even want to consider thinking about doing it" type of things. thanks
There is a big roadblock in your path. Not something you can't work around, but not easy either.
The 2wd & 4wd (and AWD) frames are completely different from the firewall forward. Suspension & suspension mounting points are totally different.
Basically, you have to swap frames to do AWD in a 2wd truck (using factory parts) or completely rig the front suspension (not an easy task).
Best suggestion for your buddy is to buy a truck in 4wd like he wants if he wants AWD. Pickup / Blazer / whatever it is he is looking for. Somebody else suggested a Syclone or Typhoon, but I wouldn't go there. Way too much money up front for a bunch of pieces that you probably won't use (like the V6, computer, gauge cluster, etc). Just do a plain jane Sonoma or 2door Blazer and add parts as you need. You'll be money ahead. Plus you won't be hacking up a limited production run vehicle (which is why there aren't that many available for really low $$$). And if you really want the cladding, you can buy that too.
I think the LSx is a cleaner swap into a 98 or newer truck (can get by with 1 computer to run everything, use the existing gauge cluster, etc). But ultimately, its your buddies call.
'Dreamin'
Last edited by 'JustDreamin'; 08-01-2005 at 08:08 AM.
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08-16-2005, 12:11 PM
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your gonna need more than just the t-case, you have to change out the front differential too because on a 4x4 truc the hubs lock/unlock nad on an all wheel drive vehicle they are always locked in, then you have to make sure your front and rear gears match, plus your gonna have to get an all wheel drivve front drive shaft
08-16-2005, 01:54 PM
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what kind of mods would you have to do to the transfer case and such to get it to hold around 900hp? sorry for jumping in your thread just got me interested and didn't seem worth making a new topic about.....
08-19-2005, 04:58 PM
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depends on what kinda power it is, if its 900 N/A horse, good luch there aint much
but if its boosted powere and you launch w/ out boost then thats a different story
check out sy/ty.org
but if its boosted powere and you launch w/ out boost then thats a different story
check out sy/ty.org
08-20-2005, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 86Z28
what kind of mods would you have to do to the transfer case and such to get it to hold around 900hp? sorry for jumping in your thread just got me interested and didn't seem worth making a new topic about.....
thats what Lingenfelter used, was a modified AWD system out of a Escalade.. but then again it is a $120,000+ pickup truck.. haha
we have an AWD astro, and they said that the transfer case is just an S10 4x4 case where you cant choose
08-21-2005, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Cop Car
we have an AWD astro, and they said that the transfer case is just an S10 4x4 case where you cant choose
It is a FULL time 4x4 box. It has a viscous coupling in the transfer case, unlike every other 4x4 box that has been installed in S10's. Thats the secret. It allows you to run 4wd all the time, without the issues you'd have running a part time box full time (funky turning effects, tire scrubbing, driveshaft breakage, whatever).
And the AWD Tcase out of the Escalade or the Denali (which is what my info on the Lingenfelter S10 says was used) is a great choice for a transfer case. But in my opinion (only my opinion) the BW4472 box is nearly as good and ALOT cheaper. You can pick up the BW box in many salvage yards for under $500 (often $250 to $350). I haven't found an Escalade or Denali box for anything less than $1000, but I haven't looked all that hard.
And besides, there are a couple of Sy's and Ty's running 9's and 10's on factory tcases. It takes a fair bit of power to run those kind of numbers, regardless of how you make it (V8, boosted 6, gas turbine, whatever), so I'd say the transfer case isn't the biggest problem. Usually getting the transmission to live is. AWD traction + big power = broken tranny.
'Dreamin'
08-22-2005, 09:48 AM
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Actually, the transmission that the Escalade uses is the 4L60E (some may get the 4L65E, which uses the same case). Same exact transmission that comes in the S10. And even the big bad boy, the 4L80E fits in there (maybe not without some adjustment, but there are a couple of S10 trucks running it)
Transfer case is different, but I'm pretty sure it fits too. But you'd have to check for yourself, I've ruled it out on a cost vs performance basis. Basically same performance for $500 to $800 more. Doesn't work with my checkbook. You've also got to be careful, because there is a full mechanical box and a 4wd on-demand box that requires a bunch of sensors, computer, and wiring to function properly (sounds like a bunch of work to me).
The transfer case I'd most like to use is the new Zexel Torsen equipped box that is coming out in the Trailblazer SS. Should be plenty strong (since standard power is 391hp) with no viscous coupling to worry about. But again, the cost to benefit analysis doesn't work out there.
'Dreamin'
Transfer case is different, but I'm pretty sure it fits too. But you'd have to check for yourself, I've ruled it out on a cost vs performance basis. Basically same performance for $500 to $800 more. Doesn't work with my checkbook. You've also got to be careful, because there is a full mechanical box and a 4wd on-demand box that requires a bunch of sensors, computer, and wiring to function properly (sounds like a bunch of work to me).
The transfer case I'd most like to use is the new Zexel Torsen equipped box that is coming out in the Trailblazer SS. Should be plenty strong (since standard power is 391hp) with no viscous coupling to worry about. But again, the cost to benefit analysis doesn't work out there.
'Dreamin'
08-23-2005, 12:02 PM
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I too thought about the AWD and actually spoke to some powertrain guys. If you get an AWD transfer case out of an Astro van or Bravada, you should be fine. They will withstand up to 1100 ft lbs of torque so unless you are building an insane monster, the transfer case should be fine. Believe me, if I could have set it up in my car, I would have. Maybe I still could someday......
08-23-2005, 05:45 PM
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anyone remember the older coupe built by summit racing that was the first awd ever?? I think it used a syclone/astro type front drivetrain. I believe it accelerated faster than any other car ever that one of the major car mags tested. I would like to know more about this but it seems hard to find info on.
08-23-2005, 08:29 PM
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There is a difference between AWD and 4wd.
2wd- obvious
4wd part time- has a transfer case that can shift from 2wd to 4wd. NOT for on road use.
4wd full time- like AWD, but can shift in an out from 2wd. Ok for onroad use.
AWD- on road use, all the time. No transferring in and out.
Most 4wd trucks have part time 4wd. Not to be used on the street.
2wd- obvious
4wd part time- has a transfer case that can shift from 2wd to 4wd. NOT for on road use.
4wd full time- like AWD, but can shift in an out from 2wd. Ok for onroad use.
AWD- on road use, all the time. No transferring in and out.
Most 4wd trucks have part time 4wd. Not to be used on the street.
08-23-2005, 09:31 PM
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Could make an adapter and use a Quadratrac from the early jeeps. My dad used to build those to withstand off-road racing. lived behind quite a few high HP big block trucks.
08-23-2005, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmyp
anyone remember the older coupe built by summit racing that was the first awd ever?? I think it used a syclone/astro type front drivetrain. I believe it accelerated faster than any other car ever that one of the major car mags tested. I would like to know more about this but it seems hard to find info on.
08-23-2005, 10:45 PM
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One more thing to consider, there is a LS2 oilpan that has a horizontal "tube" through it to allow for an axle to pass through it. It came with my 05 SSR LS2 engine (even though that truck does not have AWD, I think it is the same engine they are going to use in the Trailblazer SS which does have AWD). If you are going for a hunkered down AWD, like the Syclone/typhoon, the oil pan could be just what you need. 