mramay

iTrader: (4)

My LS6 is supposed to arrive around the middle of June but I'm not quite ready to install it into my '87 Mercedes 560SEC. The Mercedes steering gearbox is a recirculating ball unit and is EXACTLY in the wrong place to allow headers access to the bottom of the car. The picture attached is of the plastic LSx engine just sitting in the engine compartment with the steering gearbox at the top of the photo.

Any suggestions for a "rear steer" rack and pinion (RNP) unit? I looked at some late model Camaro's and Firebirds at the local salvage yard but they were all front steer (RNP mounted in front of the engine compartment crossmember, attaching to the front of the front wheels). I believe late model Vette's are front steer also.

Since my LS6 has a GM power steering pump mounted on it, I would like to stay with a GM RNP. I'm not sure that something out of a Saturn or other small car will be strong enough to handle my 3900 lb car with all that horsepower trying to do funny things to front wheels as they're trying to turn.

Suggestions as to where to look? What GM car(s) have a front-steer RNP?

jeepinpete

Most if not all of GM's fwd platforms use rear steer RNP. You probably want to look at something from a fwd Caddy, since it should be similar in width to your Merc...

mramay

iTrader: (4)

Good idea. I'll start there, that one should be strong enough to move the Benz around.

Thanks,
Mike R.

dogger

iTrader: (1)

first gen camaro's were rear steer but were not rack and pinion.

LS1 Hybrid Magna

What trans will you be using?
Why not update to a new S-Class V8 Kompressor engine?
Do you know a "Speartech" that builds a harness for a new S-Class V8 Kompressor engine? I WANNA BUT ONE INTO A 114 ...........

Do you know someone who stuffed a V8 560SEC into a 114/115 Benz?

Brains

iTrader: (7)

The GTO is a rear style... Might look there, since you can also get the matching oil pan.

mramay

iTrader: (4)

Trying to find a good 4L65E for the LS6. It's several inches longer than the MB transmission which means the driveshaft should be easy to do. Just need to have the driveshaft cut to the right length and a GM end welded onto it.

<LS1 Hybrid Magna: Do you know someone who stuffed a V8 560SEC into a 114/115 Benz?>
Nope, but it looks like the guy that wants my 560SEC engine and tranny is about to back out of the deal. Interested?? Where are you located?

I'm tired of the trials and tribulations in getting Mercedes parts, and the old fuel injection system and controls in my '87 560SEC. A new compressor motor would be great, but would be just as much trouble install as the LS6 and would cost more than the car itself. I'd expect a compressor motor and transmission to be north of $15,000, well north. The LS6 and tranny ("friend" price on the LS6) will be under $8000. Plus, the LS6 already has been upgraded with some internal and external parts, resulting in a 410 rwhp dyno run (~480 crank HP). While I do believe "there is no such thing as too much horsepower", I would hit a pretty significant point of diminishing returns with the MB comressor engine. My initial plan is to keep the 245/45/18 tires/rims on there as the "weak" link in the drive train. I'd much rather break the tires loose than break that expensive limited slip differential I just put in there.

I have a GTO oilpan for the LS6 already (front sump) so a GTO rack and pinion setup might be an interesting way to go. Just got a six page fax from Carsteering.com to be able to choose a rack that should work. I'll get into that fax later today or tomorrow. I'm hoping to find one "close enough" that won't take too much fabrication to mount to the car and attach to the Benz tie rod ends, as well as strong enough to handle a 3800 pound car at high speeds.

On a Mercedes forum, we agreed that this car will be capable of speeds in excess of 180 mph and an AMG front air dam with side skirts would be VERY useful. Maintaining steering would be a good thing too!

TJ

iTrader: (10)

you can always turn f body or truck manifolds the wrong way and run one pipe back under the car on each side, or build a set of turbo manifold style headers.
one pipe is easier to run than having tubes and a collector to worry about.
good luck!

mramay

iTrader: (4)

What will that do to the HP? It just sounds like, with all those bends, that power will suffer. It would make installation easier though. I'm getting the cast iron LS6 manifolds with the engine and those just might work but again with questions about HP gains or losses.

I've never been too fond of the MB steering anyway and thought a rack would help, with the added benefits of opening up the driver's side of the engine compartment, losing several pounds of mass at the front, and lowering the mass just a little.

LS1 Hybrid Magna

mramay thanks for the info!
located? right across the Benz HQ in Germany...lol!
Well just checked some shops,wreckers and dealers...the 560 sec runs for 2500 to 3500Euro! smashed ones for 1000-1500Euros.
At least 10 buddys work for the "stern" so parts are no biggie.
The problem is they are so "advanced" in their views that a vette is a 1900 tech adventure and everything under AMG is crab.
The basic idea was to put something B I G into a 114/115 Coupe!>>>> http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

The only Benz i really like after having a few.
I asked them to check with the tech guys at work and to asked if a 400CDI would be a choise? Answer was yah, but noone will rework the CPU nor the harness. Like always when you asked Q´s like that : call AMG they´ll fix it!
There is a Benz "Meister" at the HQ who put a 6.0Ltr in a 123 Limo and he swaped lots of S-class stuff in it ! when done the Boss of the HQ ordered the "Meister" to let them have access to his swap and put the Montser on the Dyno!
Guy drove it for a while and the car was sold by a buddy who deals with high roller cars to a IP Bizzer who i guess only looks at it as a investment .

Can you provide a US Benz Forum www?
Do you know someone who reworks Benz CPU/harness from 95 up V8 ?

There is a guy over here you stuffed a new V8 into his 107SL:

http://www.107sl-freunde.de/modules....e_car&uname=Jo

His car is the only one with a reworked CPU/harness......no INfo on who did it!

TJ

iTrader: (10)

you wont have any power loss at all, IMO.
buddy just changed his long tubes into shortys out the front and bent them back around.
all mandrel, all 3".
there is only like a 120-150 deg bend going from the header, back under the truck.
its been 6.73 at 100+mph 1/8 mile, i dont think it hurt him at all.
i myself ran the ls6 manifolds and now have a set of long tube headers hooked to the same exhaust. i picked up 2mph 1/8 mile, so there is a bit of power difference between the manifolds, and a tubular header.
good luck, i think youll be fine with whichever route works the best.

mramay

iTrader: (4)

Across the street from MB HQ?? Don’t tell them what I’m doing or they’ll send out a hit squad to stop me!!

< The problem is they are so "advanced" in their views that a vette is a 1900 tech adventure and everything under AMG is crab.>

This I can understand, but... The LS1 was a clean sheet design finished in 1996. The LS6 (my engine of choice) was designed afterwards and produced in 2002. A very new design that used LOTS of computer and finite analysis efforts. It’s a single cam pushrod engine, but it’s all aluminum (430 lbs complete), full computer engine controls, full NVH development, roller lifters/rockers, low tension piston rings, etc. Nothing “old school” about this except using the 4.40” bore spacing of the old engines. Two valves per cylinder, 405 hp stock. With a cam and some valve train mods (stock valves, including sodium filled exhaust valves), the engine I’m getting dyno’d 410 rwhp (around 480 hp at the crank), with a 7,000 rpm redline.

I purchased a complete “stand-alone” harness for the LS6 that I’m going to graft into the SEC. There will be lots of custom wiring that will need to be done, but I know I can get the engine running this way and install an OBD II port as well.

Two forums that work for me: www.mbcoupes.com and www.benzworld.org. Several folks here that know how to modify MBs. Go to the 126 forum on Benzworld and post your question(s).

I like the 250CE, that is a great car!!

Gen3Benz

iTrader: (4)

TobiusMB @ 190revolution.net converted a 190e to use rack and pinion.

rack and pinion was from a VW passat
shortened the tie rods 2 inches
used 124 steering arms, dropped and shortened
mounted it all on a piece of 1/4 plate with angled mounts to line up the steering shaft

made a bumpsteer gauge to position the rack in the right place
It is critical to get the rack at the right height or you will be all over the place
tie rods and control arms have to share the same axis as close as possible

He sent me pics of everything, but I dont I have them anymore

It will take alot of time and fabrication to convert to rack and pinion
most of the time will be spent in adjusting tie rod lengths and rack position
measuring toe at 1 inch increments, 3 inches above and below ride height

EDIT: almost forgot
any mercedes/bmw/porche fan that says pushrods are old technology are fuc*ing idiots.

mramay

iTrader: (4)

I'll contact TobiusMB to see if he can give me some guidance on where to mount my RNP. Thanks for the lead!!

One problem I've found is that the first vendor I've contacted (CarSteering.com) is very helpful but all their racks have under 7" of travel while the Mercedes has a 10" travel. Guess it's time to go back to Google. At least these folks were good enough to spend a little time with me and let me know that I have two concerns here - mount the rack at the same height as the drag link and the "inner end ball socket center to center" measurement on the rack should be as close as possible to the same measurement on the drag link.

Pushrods ARE old technology, it's just that GM has made it work in a brand new engine that will essentially blow the doors off the overhead cam crowd. It's really fun to watch the Mercedes group try to figure out how to spend under $3,000 to get 40 more horsepower out of a single overhead cam engine that is only 238 HP to begin with. With a supercharger on that engine, they MIGHT get all the way to 375 - 400 HP but that's closer to $5000. LOVE my LS6!!

RWDCelicadude

The only reason all the Mercedes engine stuff is so expensive is because it's for a mercedes. A new long block V8 from mercedes will run you right about $23,000, and that's not the AMG one, nor is it the brand new DOHC motor. The brand new motors will easily give any LSx engine a run for it's money in terms of power, don't knock them they're amazingly quick. 5.5L v8 382hp and 391ftlbs from 2800-4800 rpm naturally aspirated and with junk log manifolds. I work as a tech for mercedes but am putting a LS1 into my personal car because they are relatively cheap and easy to work on. If I could get a new mercedes engine wired in for the same price I'd probably do it.

LS1 Hybrid Magna

yahhh M O N E Y !
Well this Link
http://www.107sl-freunde.de/modules...le_car&uname=Jo

is the only one i could find and i need to check with the guy who did the CPU and harness for him!
Putting the new V8 Kompressor into a 114 would look like a "time-maschine"
a LS1 in a 114 would be fast and killer but over here this is called "getto raping" a benz......

I will asked about the strg probs to get back to the topic on monday!
cant wait to hear the remarks: never change anthing on a Benz cause its 100% ..LOL!Bla Bla i guess its a ton of weight removed and "different"-----

Payne

iTrader: (3)

Just run a single turbo on the passenger side, and the downpipe through the AC compressor area, and you will have no horsepower or packaging issues (Other than traction and no AC, lol)

redmist

I actually purchased one but it was too long for my application. Should be good in the Benz though.
A bmw 3 series (E30, e36) rack would probably work fine as well but the e34 is a little beefier. Also you can get some really cool racks from Woodward but they are $$$.
Check with Vines Auto for the used BMW racks.

Gen3Benz

iTrader: (4)

Are those racks(E30,E36) front or rear steer?

redmist

Rear steer