Change vin after swap????
06-04-2006, 04:34 PM
#1
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Change vin after swap???? I plan on doing an ls1 m6 swap into a 97 v6 camaro. I have had a couple people say or pm me that I cant legally swap a six speed into an a4 car with out changing the vin. Iw was like wtf? As far as I know, you do not change, alter, or touch the vin on any vehicle for any reason.
Here is a link to the thread on need2speed.com:Click Here!
I have found some pretty good links on the swap. It looks like I am going to need a complete donor car to do the swap right.
Here is a link to the thread on need2speed.com:Click Here!
I have found some pretty good links on the swap. It looks like I am going to need a complete donor car to do the swap right.
06-04-2006, 04:55 PM
#3
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Somebody is full of poop! The VIN of the car stays with the car until it is crushed! It would be illegal to change the VIN of the car in all 50 states.
The engine has no bearing on the VIN of the car! About the only issue you may run into is regarding the emission laws and the finished car. In states with inspection of the emission equipment, you can open a real bag of snakes on this swap. You would have to prove, in most cases, that all emmisions equipment required by the current engine are being met. This can be a lot of work and documentation depending on the state. The VIN has characters that identify which body and drivetrain were used on the car, so showing up with a LS1 in a car which shows to have a V6 will cause real problems in most emission inspection stations.
This the reason that a lot of us only do conversions on emission-exempt cars!
In my location, any car prior to 1982 gets no inspection at all, and all cars after 82 but prior to OBDII standards, just gets the tialpipe probe. On OBDII spec cars, the computer is hooked up to the state which loads all the parameters for that VIN, and if the total parameters do not match, or any parameter has set a code, then the car will not pass. You can not, for example, edit out the rear cats or the EGR valve. If you do, the total number of parameters will not match and tha car will fail. Retrofitting another engine into a late model car in can be a real nightmare if you have to deal with smog laws.
Regards, John McGraw
The engine has no bearing on the VIN of the car! About the only issue you may run into is regarding the emission laws and the finished car. In states with inspection of the emission equipment, you can open a real bag of snakes on this swap. You would have to prove, in most cases, that all emmisions equipment required by the current engine are being met. This can be a lot of work and documentation depending on the state. The VIN has characters that identify which body and drivetrain were used on the car, so showing up with a LS1 in a car which shows to have a V6 will cause real problems in most emission inspection stations.
This the reason that a lot of us only do conversions on emission-exempt cars!
In my location, any car prior to 1982 gets no inspection at all, and all cars after 82 but prior to OBDII standards, just gets the tialpipe probe. On OBDII spec cars, the computer is hooked up to the state which loads all the parameters for that VIN, and if the total parameters do not match, or any parameter has set a code, then the car will not pass. You can not, for example, edit out the rear cats or the EGR valve. If you do, the total number of parameters will not match and tha car will fail. Retrofitting another engine into a late model car in can be a real nightmare if you have to deal with smog laws.
Regards, John McGraw
06-05-2006, 12:11 AM
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Thank you. That is pretty much what I have known. I just wanted to make sure that there was some "new law" that I did not know about.
Luckily we dont have to deal with emissions here (yet). That is also a reason that I am looking for a complete donor car, so everything needed will be there.
Luckily we dont have to deal with emissions here (yet). That is also a reason that I am looking for a complete donor car, so everything needed will be there.
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06-05-2006, 11:37 AM
#9
The VIN is programmed into the PCM. It should show up when you scan the car depending on what software is used.
You cannot change the VIN of the car, but maybe can change it in the PCM to match the car. There has to be a way to do it. What do dealers do when a faulty PCM is replaced under warranty?
That is probably what was meant when someone told you to change the VIN.
You cannot change the VIN of the car, but maybe can change it in the PCM to match the car. There has to be a way to do it. What do dealers do when a faulty PCM is replaced under warranty?
That is probably what was meant when someone told you to change the VIN.
06-05-2006, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 70 LS1
The VIN is programmed into the PCM. It should show up when you scan the car depending on what software is used.
You cannot change the VIN of the car, but maybe can change it in the PCM to match the car. There has to be a way to do it. What do dealers do when a faulty PCM is replaced under warranty?
That is probably what was meant when someone told you to change the VIN.
You cannot change the VIN of the car, but maybe can change it in the PCM to match the car. There has to be a way to do it. What do dealers do when a faulty PCM is replaced under warranty?
That is probably what was meant when someone told you to change the VIN.
06-05-2006, 02:15 PM
#11
The PCM calibration will only accept VIN that were assigned or match the OS (Operating System). There is no software that I know of that can change the VIN in the PCM to match the vehicle if the sequence does not match the OS. GM has a library of all the calibration that were issued to the vehicles they made, so if a PCM fails and the dealer replaces it, they can download the appropriate calibration for you vehicle. It won't be the same one, but it will be very close ... close enough to make the PCM VIN match the vehicle's VIN.
And to the original poster ... the VIN has no data as to wether the vehicle was an auto or stick, just engine size. This applys to GM models only.
And to the original poster ... the VIN has no data as to wether the vehicle was an auto or stick, just engine size. This applys to GM models only.
06-11-2006, 05:03 PM
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hm i got a ls1 t56 in a v6 car, no one notices nothin'. 
leave your VIN alone. http://aram.hartounian.net/jeremy/
leave your VIN alone. http://aram.hartounian.net/jeremy/
06-11-2006, 08:18 PM
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The VIN belongs to the car, regardless of the engine/motor/transmission/whatever. 
While parts of certain VINs may help identify original engines vs replacements/swaps/etc, that mean NOTHING to the DMV (or whatever it is called in your State)
While parts of certain VINs may help identify original engines vs replacements/swaps/etc, that mean NOTHING to the DMV (or whatever it is called in your State)
06-12-2006, 12:41 AM
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you appear to me a mustang guy, so why would you pick a 97 V6 camaro to swap into, just wondering... something like an LS1 T56 swapped SN95 mustang would be more up your ally id think...
but no, dont swap vins.. dosent matter if motor or trans are matching or not
but no, dont swap vins.. dosent matter if motor or trans are matching or not
06-12-2006, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by John McGraw
Somebody is full of poop! The VIN of the car stays with the car until it is crushed! It would be illegal to change the VIN of the car in all 50 states.
The engine has no bearing on the VIN of the car! About the only issue you may run into is regarding the emission laws and the finished car. In states with inspection of the emission equipment, you can open a real bag of snakes on this swap. You would have to prove, in most cases, that all emmisions equipment required by the current engine are being met. This can be a lot of work and documentation depending on the state. The VIN has characters that identify which body and drivetrain were used on the car, so showing up with a LS1 in a car which shows to have a V6 will cause real problems in most emission inspection stations.
This the reason that a lot of us only do conversions on emission-exempt cars!
In my location, any car prior to 1982 gets no inspection at all, and all cars after 82 but prior to OBDII standards, just gets the tialpipe probe. On OBDII spec cars, the computer is hooked up to the state which loads all the parameters for that VIN, and if the total parameters do not match, or any parameter has set a code, then the car will not pass. You can not, for example, edit out the rear cats or the EGR valve. If you do, the total number of parameters will not match and tha car will fail. Retrofitting another engine into a late model car in can be a real nightmare if you have to deal with smog laws.
Regards, John McGraw
The engine has no bearing on the VIN of the car! About the only issue you may run into is regarding the emission laws and the finished car. In states with inspection of the emission equipment, you can open a real bag of snakes on this swap. You would have to prove, in most cases, that all emmisions equipment required by the current engine are being met. This can be a lot of work and documentation depending on the state. The VIN has characters that identify which body and drivetrain were used on the car, so showing up with a LS1 in a car which shows to have a V6 will cause real problems in most emission inspection stations.
This the reason that a lot of us only do conversions on emission-exempt cars!
In my location, any car prior to 1982 gets no inspection at all, and all cars after 82 but prior to OBDII standards, just gets the tialpipe probe. On OBDII spec cars, the computer is hooked up to the state which loads all the parameters for that VIN, and if the total parameters do not match, or any parameter has set a code, then the car will not pass. You can not, for example, edit out the rear cats or the EGR valve. If you do, the total number of parameters will not match and tha car will fail. Retrofitting another engine into a late model car in can be a real nightmare if you have to deal with smog laws.
Regards, John McGraw
In my case, a GM dealer will have to list what emissions equipment was on an '02 Z06 Vette for the LS6 engine I'm getting. My 1987 Mercedes will have to have the same equipment and functioning. The local DMV smog folks here did say that I have to have a catalytic converter on the car that was legal for the donor car - any cat that is listed as legal on an '02 Z06 is fine on the Mercedes, it doesn't have to be a GM cat. I have to install an OBD II port (which comes on the custom harness I've purchased) and the local smog folks will be checking for codes that my ECM Tuner will make sure never show up.
The DMV folks here in Las Vegas were helpful and indicated that this wouldn't be difficult to get it to pass. They pointed out that I'll end up with a package of paperwork from the dealer and them that will have to stay with the car from that point on so that it can be tested and/or sold.
I see no insurmountable or especially difficult problems.
06-12-2006, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mramay
As John say's, it depends on the state. Nevada wants me to take the engine serial number into a dealer and have them fill out a form that states the emissions equipment on that engine, which will have to be on my vehicle after the engine is in my car. The local smog folks then test it as if it was the car from which the engine was pulled, which means my '87 Benz must meet '02 Vette emission standards.
In my case, a GM dealer will have to list what emissions equipment was on an '02 Z06 Vette for the LS6 engine I'm getting. My 1987 Mercedes will have to have the same equipment and functioning. The local DMV smog folks here did say that I have to have a catalytic converter on the car that was legal for the donor car - any cat that is listed as legal on an '02 Z06 is fine on the Mercedes, it doesn't have to be a GM cat. I have to install an OBD II port (which comes on the custom harness I've purchased) and the local smog folks will be checking for codes that my ECM Tuner will make sure never show up.
The DMV folks here in Las Vegas were helpful and indicated that this wouldn't be difficult to get it to pass. They pointed out that I'll end up with a package of paperwork from the dealer and them that will have to stay with the car from that point on so that it can be tested and/or sold.
I see no insurmountable or especially difficult problems.
In my case, a GM dealer will have to list what emissions equipment was on an '02 Z06 Vette for the LS6 engine I'm getting. My 1987 Mercedes will have to have the same equipment and functioning. The local DMV smog folks here did say that I have to have a catalytic converter on the car that was legal for the donor car - any cat that is listed as legal on an '02 Z06 is fine on the Mercedes, it doesn't have to be a GM cat. I have to install an OBD II port (which comes on the custom harness I've purchased) and the local smog folks will be checking for codes that my ECM Tuner will make sure never show up.
The DMV folks here in Las Vegas were helpful and indicated that this wouldn't be difficult to get it to pass. They pointed out that I'll end up with a package of paperwork from the dealer and them that will have to stay with the car from that point on so that it can be tested and/or sold.
I see no insurmountable or especially difficult problems.
