sb427f-car

I'm trying to get a better understanding of what goes into an upright with the spindle, hub, bearing assembly.

Rodder

iTrader: (2)

I fabbed a set of carbon fiber rear uprights for a Formula-SAE car in college, but we never could solve our bearing support problems and gave up and welded up some aluminum ones instead. I didn't do the design though.

99c5vert

I think you can get "integrated bearings" (not sure if that's what they're called). So the bearing already has its own housing and you just bolt it on to the upright.

WAY back in the day (late 80's) our formula SAE team made cast magnesium front uprights, but I had nothing to do with them.

sb427f-car

Yeah, I started looking yesterday at afco spindles / uprights...

The kicker I guess will be the back uprights for an IRS setup though.

'JustDreamin'

I did some for Formula SAE and SAE Mini Baja back in '95. Didn't do all that much in the stress analysis, mostly was going off of previous car's experience (that part bent last year, lets make it stronger).

Many of GM's products now use a packaged bearing assembly. That would make it fairly easy to design a spindle or knuckle with the geometry you need to use an existing bearing.

'JustDreamin'

sb427f-car

Thanks...that's the kind of info I need to hear!!!!

Another local boy...the conversions forum is becoming crowded with Marylanders

'JustDreamin'

Yup, getting kinda full....Whereabouts you at? I'm in Severna Park.


You might take a hard serious look at ATS's spindles. I believe they're setup to take a unitized bearing setup. I thought they were set up to be able to use either the front or rear C5 hubs.

Also, the 4wd S10 runs a unitized front bearing with splines on the inside of the bearing. They're not cheap (like $190 for ones with ABS, I would expect non-ABS would be cheaper).

Certainly is alot easier to build just a-arms than to build a-arms & uprights.

'JustDreamin'

Andy1

I see a lot of folks doing welded aluminum suspension and assorted chassis pieces, yet when I ask about their post weld treatment, they usually go blank. I had designed some fabricated and welded aluminum trailing arms; even machined the bearing carriers but shelved it due to the high cost of the post weld treatment process required to regain lost strength at the weld joints (along with fixturing to keep everything straight during the process). I went with simple mild steel with a known good fatigue life, etc. A weight penalty I know, but I didn't want any suspension failure surprises when going fast.

Andy1

sb427f-car

Andy...I'm definately NOT going with Alum., for the strengthining reasons given. It's too complicated and WAY outside of my league. If you notice my sig as to where I'm headed...this is still VERY early research.

sb427f-car

Northern Harford...above Bel Air.


Yeah, that's a posibility too...I'm not rulling anything out. I guess basically the things I want to be able to get out of the build/project is the best suspension I can for my time, effort, and money, something that's going to hold up, and something that's gonna teach me something AND be adjustable. The adjustability is the problem with using JUST factory donor stuff. There is some, but I want to have as much control as feasibly possible.

Nothing is getting cut or welded for some months (at the least) to come.

Andy1

Though there are several IRS (rear) uprights available, the T-Bird/Lincoln IRS uprights are relatively plentiful, cheap, and reasonably well supported by the aftermarket. They may be a bit hefty for your application. If that's the case, that WRX of yours has spindles and uprights that could work. They too are reasonably easy to find at the wreakers (or the Bay), if you want to go in that direction.

Andy1

sb427f-car

The T-Bird/Lincoln IRS uprights come up all the time. I would like to be able to use standard bolt paterns for wheels (which the T-bird should afford me).

I'd like to be able to use a center section that can let me use a torsen or trutrak type rear gear. When I'm @ the Philly autoshow next saturday...I have full intentions of crawling under a few things and taking a look at them, including the CTS-Vs (though, they're a 6 lug hub and wheel aren't they?)

stealth71

iTrader: (15)

From the pics I've seen they are 6 lug.

sb427f-car

Yeah, I just remembered that...doesn't mean that'd be using those hubs though.

417 Motorsports

iTrader: (2)

i wanna see some pics

sb427f-car

Of what??? I'm not building yet, lol


And if you do have pics of ideas...please do post 'em!

'JustDreamin'

I've thought about doing a AWD sportscar just a little bit, and the axles that I was thinking about using (both front and rear) is the Ford 8.8" which is a pretty stout unit.

The rear centersection is available from a couple of cars (T bird and Cobra come to mind). The 8.8 came in a front axle application in the Expeditions (Explorers look similar, but I believe are a smaller setup). Not sure how different the IRS & IFS cases are from standard 8.8 stuff. Would be great if they were plug and play.

You'll have fun with bolt patterns. The CTS-V does run 6 lugs, but has really nice Brembo brakes (they're huge, IIRC 355mm fronts (13.97") and 325mm rears (12.8")) which might be a good reason to use them.

How about the GTO? I know they're IRS, but not sure what hardware is in them (centersection). Or bolt patterns.

'JustDreamin'

sb427f-car

Yeah, GTO has come up too...

I really can't run the CTS stuff...it's a little too large for that thing I'm building. But a good set of 4 pot, radial mounted claipers will probably get the job done.

'JustDreamin'

I keep forgetting that you're building something the size of a Lotus 7.

Any target for weight? Power? Tires?

I'd bet the C5 rotors would probably still be bigger than you really need (fronts are 325mm (12.8") x 32mm (1.25")). Personally, I don't see any advantage of 4 piston fixed vs 2 piston floaters.

Don't mean to sidetrack your thread asking about details of the vision for your project, but I'm inquisitive.

'JustDreamin'

sb427f-car

That's ok...breaks are part of the suspension system, since you have to hang them somewhere off the front uprights. They definately come into play.


As far as wheel/tire sizing...I really won't go any bigger than a 16" wheel / tire for street wheels, and the smallest "slick" wheel and tire I can run for auto-x and track depenant upon the break type setup.

SCCA rules for E Mod and unlimited engine displacement are 1800#s with driver. Realisitcally, I'd like to be at that or a little over. Definately a SUB 2000# weight though. It's going to take full thought and planning. I know a lot of people have told me go with an ecotec and call it a day, but that's not what I want...and in the end...I have to satisfy myself. Besides...I keep seeing, Rat Rod meets one of the original sports cars. Something worthy of the Colin Chapmin legacy (inginuity, and style).

BTW, inquizitive is fine. I've been talking about this project on three different boards, and with a great deal of people. I'm really trying to diversify the input as much as possible. The lotus/locost people are help for the base and core ideas, but to get outside the box...you need to be outside the box. I consider the LS1Tech site one of the best (if not the best) core of hotroddres and car guys on the net, so that's why input here is so valuable as well (not taking away from any of the other boards). Hell I'm even on the UK Locost board.

When things finally calm down at the end of Feb., I plan on doing my taxes...reformating my computer, and I think I have an cad program laying around somewhere...so the fun will begin. Besides...I do have a buddy that is a Mech E and another that's working for a power tool company and has access to Catia