rcM3

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind.

What is the overall procedure for getting it done?

Is it basically a matter of removing the BMW ECU and wiring that manages the motor and replacing those modules with corresponding LS1 components? This has gotta be a massive oversimplification of process. Fill in holes and correct me where you can.

I'm also lost on how you adapt the signals for the transplant. What connections are dependent on the BMW ECU and how are they translated? For example I would imagine the tachometer signal needs to be adapted, but what about the speedometer signal?

What about 'Check Engine' codes? Will there be any way to use diagnostic tools to determine problems down the road? Will errors throw my dashboard 'Check Engine' light on, or will this function be permanently gone from the car?

Another thing that's a mystery to me is the OBDII systems in my car. Have any e36 transplants been done on OBDII cars yet? The LS1 is produced as OBDII motor from my understanding, but I doubt the OBDII functions will still work correctly or at all after this swap (I'm not worried so much about this specifically.... you don't even really need catalytic converters to get licensed in Kansas (this may be the only good thing about KS)...). Or am I wrong and the OBDII functions would work fine and there is no reason to work around them? (In e36 BMWs the OBDII functions are reputed as power-robbing, a pain-in-the-*** to work with, and inefficient.)

These two sites might be helpful:

www.pcmforless.com
wait4meperformance.com

Apparently both of these sites can take your ECU and flash-off the systems that you don't need operable on your car so that they don't set off 'Check Engine' lights. And I don't think they're very expensive either. I found them from this thread:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-swaps/829310-tuners-pcm-reflash-o2-delete-vats-etc.html

Also, is a PCM the same thing as an ECU? Its always been called ECU in the BMW world, but PCM seems to be the lingo here.

Same with CEL (Check engine light, in BMW lingo) and SES. I'm guessing SES stands for 'Service Engine Soon' and is what the dash-light says on LS1 cars.

Thaniel

iTrader: (2)

Lots of people get scared about the wiring. If you can handle a soldering iron an read a wiring schematic then it is not big deal. Really. Just takes paitience cuz there are lots of wires and you have to keep organized.

Basically you dump the DME out of the BMW when you pull the motor. The LS1 motor and PCM will stay together. There aren't that many wires that go between the motor and the car. Most wires go between the motor and the ECU. If you have a complete engine harness with your LS1 you already have that part.

If you don't have to pass any OBDII inspections then I'd just have the extra emissions and OBDII sensor stuff turned off when you get your PCM set up by a tuner. (I used wait4me). To adapt the tach signal all you do is ask the tuner to set it up to simulate a 6 cyl if you had a 6 cyl car (4 cyl if you had a 4 cyl car. I think there is info in my thread about this) Connect the tac output of the engine to the car input and voila.

I've attached my wiring excel file to give you an idea of what you need to investigate. I count 17 wires that actually needed to be connected from the LS1 "body" connectors to the BMW chassis/guages/power etc. Your car will be different to where they may connect but the wires off the LS1 should be fairly similar.

If you wanted to hook up the extra OBDII sensors (fuel tank temp and pressure I believe are 2) you'd have to connect those and hope they had a similar signal range or replace them with GM sensors. Not worth the bother in my opinion as they do nothing for performance or emissions far as I have read. Just check for leaks in the evap system etc.

How I physically ran my wires was I cut the pig tail (F-connector on my sheet, which is the big round plug going to the chassis) and the 3 relays that are attached on the side of the fuze box off the BMW harness. I cut the body connectors off the ls1 harness (C220, C230, C100, C105, C101). I removed the wires I wasn't needing (for OBDII stuff and other sensors I didn't use) and connected the wires to the pigtail and relays and the power sources. I also shortened the main part of the harness about where it connects to the PCM to get the length right so the wires would run neatly into the PCM. I mounted my PCM where the DME was in the engine bay.

If you read this and think "I could do that" then your ready to start looking at wiring diagrams. If you think "what is he talking about" then it's probably time to call in some help.

I think my whole wiring harness change cost me less than $20. Some Solder, heat shrink tubing, tape, wireing loom, small fuse block and misc connectors. Everything works perfect the first time by the way. I even have the MPG in play though I haven't bought/made a signal pulse modifier to correct it for the new engine. Still fun to watch the needle swing back and forth

NewAge

Speed signal – from bmw reared
Tach signal – hook into lsx output wire (change signal with either ls1edit or hptuners)
Temp gauge – from bmw temp sensor which is installed into the lsx head
MPG gauge – tps sensor and watch it peg when you slam the throttle (turned ours into a oil pressure gauge)
Mil light – wired into lsx ecm
The obd 2 dignostic plug stays in it stock location and is wired to lsx ecm (we build a plug a play harness that goes through the firewall)
Keep under hood diagnostic connector for air bags (its fun to go to the dealership and have your light reset, once the swap is done)
On some cars changing wires for EWS and EWS II (quick example - going from auto to stick)
Lsx ecm installed where old DME was, then cut shorten gm ecm wires (we have many pins in stock, order them in qualities of 5,000), trace wires in bmw connector make sure the diagram is right (in some cases mid year changes, don’t match), Gm diagrams are pretty straight forward, just make sure your looking a the correct diagram for the harness you have, many have small differences.
Remember to fuse all power connections and where you want relay location. If your feeling really adventurous are shop installs are all wired into the stock bmw fuse block and relay locations.
Also the main bmw wires are common colors through the years for the harness, just most of the time pinout numbers are different.
These are the major wiring parts, may have left out a few things it all depends on the car. Tried to keep it short and to the point, but this should get you started on more questions…haha

rcM3

Thanks a lot Thaniel and NewAge, that'll definitely help get things started. I'll be sure to post up any questions I have down the road.

JTagz

There's some great info in this thread already, keep it coming! Thanks guys!

kesslerbmw

Awesome posts.. They cleared up about 90% of the current wonders I had about the wiring..

rcM3

Happy New Year everyone!

I'm trying to get my motor sold to move along on this project. Hopefully it ends up in a 332ti or something sweet like that.

Question of the evening: What radiators have been used in this swap? Anyone using a units from an LS1 donor car? What are the issues with mounting it? Along these lines, what other additional cooling accessories have you installed (electric fan, etc)?

NewAge

You can use the stock e36 radiator and mount a electric fan to it or use the existing fan in the e36, I personally perfer having two fans, the stock one and a high cfm fan mounted to the radiator.

Here is the ls swap radiator we have built for are installs:

rao

iTrader: (18)

I use a Z3 radiator (although I think the regular 6 cylinder e36 radiator would be fine) with a Taurus fan.

Mike's 530i

Has anyone tried an LSx swap into the E60?

rcM3

I doubt it, but I'm sure there is lots of room considering the e60 M5 has a V10 in it.

monger

I've been researching the swap myself, and may be fabricating some mounts of my own soon. I'm recovering from a broken leg, so I may not be able to offer any "manpower", and I am in absolutely no rush to tear apart my car...so if anyone is in the ny / nj area in the middle of a swap, or has an e36 without an engine, and an lsx drivetrain lying around, I'd be more than happy to help with a test fit. I've been eying up some manifold options, as that seems to be the priciest part of this swap. ls2 corvette manifolds look very "block huggerish", maybe even stock gto manifolds.I'v e seen some very nice GTO specific tubular headers that look like they may work too....they seem to have steering clearance issues similar to the e36. My swap wont require tubular headers, I'm just looking for a solid, fun daily driver. If I can get a set of stock vette or gto mannies to work, then the fabrication will be only in the y-pipe for clearance. If anyone local is in the middle of this, I might be able to get a set of "test" mounts soon. holla back!

'JustDreamin'

You've just identified the $6,400 problem.....

The issue with these swaps is not building mounts or electrical (although the OBDII cars may not be easily done). Its the exhaust system. Vorshlag had tried a whole bunch of manifolds, and came to the conclusion that there wasn't a factory manifold that fit, and decided to do long tubes. Other guys came to that same conclusion.


But, some time has elapsed since those conclusions were made, and GM has put the LSx motor into a fair number of new platforms with new exhaust manifold designs. I don't think Vorshlag tried the GTO manifolds or the LS2 vette manifolds (because I don't think they were available then). Check out Vorshlags site to see what they did try. CTS-V manifolds, and the new front wheel drive manifolds might also be worth looking at. If someone discovers a factory manifold solution, this swap will become ALOT less expensive and therefore attractive.

'JustDreamin'

monger

I'm thinking about trying these out....

C6 corvette




GTO


these are sanderson's on an e30 ls1 (i'd like to apologize in advance if this is anyones' car....these are pics I've been collecting randomly!)

monger

more pics of the sandersons in an E30.....the E36 has a larger engine compartment so these look promising...

monger

C5 Vette manny


SSR manny




alot of these can be had for dirt cheap....

Fair

Yea, we tried OEM manifolds for several reasons, including visual inspection/CARB potential. And of course a huge cost savings! Our full length headers are admittedly expensive, but they have features you tend to find in $3000+ race headers. Anyway...

We tried C5 Corvette, F-Body and Truck LS1 manifolds. The GTO and C5 look more promising, but the flanges are still pretty big and right where the steering shaft might be located.

We also looked at the Sanderson shorties but I just couldn't do that in good consious. They all look pretty power robbing but 1-5/8" block huggers? That's street rod nonsense. Instead of lopping ~30 hp off we added ~30 hp over stock with our headers. Power costs money. (shrug)

I have pics of the manifold mock-ups on the Beta car starting here... http://www.vorshlag.smugmug.com/gall...fEpu#124059219

We couldn't get the motor to even come close to sitting where it needed to be with the manifolds on. We did the same mock-ups on our Alpha car.

monger

I understand where you're coming from, your headers are a work of art if you ask me...I also understand that you're in the business to make money and I'm all for that. For those of us trying to do this a little more cost effective, that extra 30hp may not warrant the extra expense. hell, maybe if I get frustrated enough trying all these manifolds I'll just buy your headers anyway. That pic of your test fit, looks like f-body manifolds....did you ever try using the sandersons or c6's?

FootLbs

iTrader: (7)

I have seen these kits in person. They are extremely high quality. A+ Kit.

Fair

Not yet. Just F-Body, C5 and LSX truck. I will try to round up some C6 and GTO manifolds and test fit them on one of our cars, but its pretty tight to the steering and the chassis where they look to terminate. The 4 primaries from a custom long tube can be made to fit better in these areas than the humongous 2 or 3-bolt flange on the factory manifolds...

We are also discussing some other options. More soon.