I need z06 head and cam help.
08-24-2010, 11:01 PM
#1
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I need z06 head and cam help. I just bought me a z06 a few weeks ago. It is an 02 ls6 and this is my fisrt ls motor. I am wanting to do a head cam package with all bolt ons. I have called just about everyone and they all want to sell there packages and have conflicting info. Ive called tsp cartek and many others. I love the way gm has the power band set up but I would like to squeeze as much as I can without having to fly cut. They all also have different recommendation on header sizes but all seem to like kooks. I would like to get the car in the 10's or as close to possible but keep the crisp response and all around power band like it has now, it seems to have it whenever you need it. I like tsp and cartek using the 246 heads but am open to all my options and really have no budget. I would like to keep it dependable as I would like to still travel in it but the around town drivability really doesn't bother me and will sacrifice it for wicked sound. Do you guys have any proven setups with wheel hp and times, I know you rarely ever get the power the sellers claim. I am going to carlisle friday and would like to get started on my purchase.
Thanks Clint. ps hijack just showed up while writing this does this sit have hackers
Thanks Clint. ps hijack just showed up while writing this does this sit have hackers
08-25-2010, 12:34 PM
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I need z06 head and cam help. Cartek 4X Package
Robz Ran High mid 10's N/A with this set up and a pair of ARH headers
He sold the whole H/C package (used) for about $2300 on-line about a year ago lol
He runs trickflow heads now ,
Atleast That's what he told me lol
He ran High 9's with a set of Trickflow 215's and a custom grind from Tommy at " Anger Management"
That's who work's on his car,
Bon, vettetrick.com
Robz Ran High mid 10's N/A with this set up and a pair of ARH headers
He sold the whole H/C package (used) for about $2300 on-line about a year ago lol
He runs trickflow heads now ,
Atleast That's what he told me lol
He ran High 9's with a set of Trickflow 215's and a custom grind from Tommy at " Anger Management"
That's who work's on his car,
Bon, vettetrick.com
Last edited by vette0009; 08-25-2010 at 12:49 PM. Reason: Dooo Whapp
08-26-2010, 02:52 AM
#4
The 243s are good heads. Sending them out to StreetKills for their stage 2 would gain you 30-40HP alone. If you go with a 228R cam or 233/239 cam you won't have to fly cut. You'll just need good springs. The 233/239 cam will net you really good power. With the stage 2 CNC'd heads, that cam, LT headers, cat-back, CAI and a tune you should make 460-470RWHP. Throw a FAST 92/92 and you'll make another 20hp.
EDIT:
Noticed you said you have "no budget".
Getting the heads done by streetkills is about $475 + shipping the heads to AZ.
Head gaskets are about $50.
Exhaust manifold gaskets can be reused. The stockers are really good.
The cam you can find used for $200 or get one new for $320.
The springs are about $100-120 from StreetKills.
I recommend getting hardened push rods. Chromemoly seems to be the way to go. Forgot how much they are, but they're not much.
You can reuse your lifters if there aren't many miles on them, but a new set of LS7 lifters are cheap.
The headers for Vettes are expensive, but you can get a used set off the corvetteforum.com's parts section for around $700-900. However, I picked up a set of LS7 exhaust manifolds/cats for about $200 and I gained 13HP without tuning and they'll smog no problem here in Cali.
I picked up the mid-pipes recently for about $200 with the x-pipe. So those are cheap too.
I see people selling Vararam CAI's for anywhere between $150-200. They're $250 new.
Depending on where you are, the tune will cost you about $300-600 also depending on how good they are.
If you're not doing all the work yourself, labor will be your biggest cost.
If you want to do it, the FAST 9x/9x setup is between $600-1000 depending on where you get the stuff.
A good clutch is about $300-400. I recommend the LS7 clutch. It's the best bang for the buck and it'll hold that power no problem.
Squeezing power out of your car is an expensive proposition even when you buy the parts used.
Don't forget to install a CLB!
EDIT:
Noticed you said you have "no budget".
Getting the heads done by streetkills is about $475 + shipping the heads to AZ.
Head gaskets are about $50.
Exhaust manifold gaskets can be reused. The stockers are really good.
The cam you can find used for $200 or get one new for $320.
The springs are about $100-120 from StreetKills.
I recommend getting hardened push rods. Chromemoly seems to be the way to go. Forgot how much they are, but they're not much.
You can reuse your lifters if there aren't many miles on them, but a new set of LS7 lifters are cheap.
The headers for Vettes are expensive, but you can get a used set off the corvetteforum.com's parts section for around $700-900. However, I picked up a set of LS7 exhaust manifolds/cats for about $200 and I gained 13HP without tuning and they'll smog no problem here in Cali.
I picked up the mid-pipes recently for about $200 with the x-pipe. So those are cheap too.
I see people selling Vararam CAI's for anywhere between $150-200. They're $250 new.
Depending on where you are, the tune will cost you about $300-600 also depending on how good they are.
If you're not doing all the work yourself, labor will be your biggest cost.
If you want to do it, the FAST 9x/9x setup is between $600-1000 depending on where you get the stuff.
A good clutch is about $300-400. I recommend the LS7 clutch. It's the best bang for the buck and it'll hold that power no problem.
Squeezing power out of your car is an expensive proposition even when you buy the parts used.
Don't forget to install a CLB!
Last edited by SCM_Crash; 08-26-2010 at 03:04 AM.
08-26-2010, 08:56 AM
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The 243s are good heads. Sending them out to StreetKills for their stage 2 would gain you 30-40HP alone. If you go with a 228R cam or 233/239 cam you won't have to fly cut. You'll just need good springs. The 233/239 cam will net you really good power. With the stage 2 CNC'd heads, that cam, LT headers, cat-back, CAI and a tune you should make 460-470RWHP. Throw a FAST 92/92 and you'll make another 20hp.
EDIT:
Noticed you said you have "no budget".
Getting the heads done by streetkills is about $475 + shipping the heads to AZ.
Head gaskets are about $50.
Exhaust manifold gaskets can be reused. The stockers are really good.
The cam you can find used for $200 or get one new for $320.
The springs are about $100-120 from StreetKills.
I recommend getting hardened push rods. Chromemoly seems to be the way to go. Forgot how much they are, but they're not much.
You can reuse your lifters if there aren't many miles on them, but a new set of LS7 lifters are cheap.
The headers for Vettes are expensive, but you can get a used set off the corvetteforum.com's parts section for around $700-900. However, I picked up a set of LS7 exhaust manifolds/cats for about $200 and I gained 13HP without tuning and they'll smog no problem here in Cali.
I picked up the mid-pipes recently for about $200 with the x-pipe. So those are cheap too.
I see people selling Vararam CAI's for anywhere between $150-200. They're $250 new.
Depending on where you are, the tune will cost you about $300-600 also depending on how good they are.
If you're not doing all the work yourself, labor will be your biggest cost.
If you want to do it, the FAST 9x/9x setup is between $600-1000 depending on where you get the stuff.
A good clutch is about $300-400. I recommend the LS7 clutch. It's the best bang for the buck and it'll hold that power no problem.
Squeezing power out of your car is an expensive proposition even when you buy the parts used.
Don't forget to install a CLB!
EDIT:
Noticed you said you have "no budget".
Getting the heads done by streetkills is about $475 + shipping the heads to AZ.
Head gaskets are about $50.
Exhaust manifold gaskets can be reused. The stockers are really good.
The cam you can find used for $200 or get one new for $320.
The springs are about $100-120 from StreetKills.
I recommend getting hardened push rods. Chromemoly seems to be the way to go. Forgot how much they are, but they're not much.
You can reuse your lifters if there aren't many miles on them, but a new set of LS7 lifters are cheap.
The headers for Vettes are expensive, but you can get a used set off the corvetteforum.com's parts section for around $700-900. However, I picked up a set of LS7 exhaust manifolds/cats for about $200 and I gained 13HP without tuning and they'll smog no problem here in Cali.
I picked up the mid-pipes recently for about $200 with the x-pipe. So those are cheap too.
I see people selling Vararam CAI's for anywhere between $150-200. They're $250 new.
Depending on where you are, the tune will cost you about $300-600 also depending on how good they are.
If you're not doing all the work yourself, labor will be your biggest cost.
If you want to do it, the FAST 9x/9x setup is between $600-1000 depending on where you get the stuff.
A good clutch is about $300-400. I recommend the LS7 clutch. It's the best bang for the buck and it'll hold that power no problem.
Squeezing power out of your car is an expensive proposition even when you buy the parts used.
Don't forget to install a CLB!
08-30-2010, 12:02 AM
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I was in carlisle this weekend and talked to ecs and others. They weren't real interested in talking to me do to them selling there accesories. Thats ok though cartek and westchester corvettes along with kooks where great guys. I talked to west coast, breathless, ecs and they didn't seem to want to help. Its a shame no one brought any heads and cams because I am getting anxious. I did buy me a set of kooks headers and x pipe from them. I have to say if any of you guys looking for headers these guys and quality are great. They took there time with me had a beer and they explained which of there products would work for me. American racing just blew me off, little did they know I had pockets full, Im happy with my kooks purchase. I will be contacting cartech, westchester and some of the people you guys mentioned. PLEASE KEEP INFO COMING. If anyones interested in some headers please let me know because I learned alot from the kooks guys, little did I know I didnt want what I thought as far as sizes and such. If anyone is interested pm and Ill start a thread.
08-30-2010, 02:06 PM
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It's not like ECS to blow someone off, you have to realize they had 1000's of people go through the tent and chances are you talked to one of the many hired help just for the show.
Cartek could hook you up al$o, but I would $hop price$ fir$t.
What ever you do, I would stay far away from COW.
Click > https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...er-engine.html
Cartek could hook you up al$o, but I would $hop price$ fir$t.
What ever you do, I would stay far away from COW.
Click > https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...er-engine.html
Last edited by 4DRUSH; 08-30-2010 at 03:48 PM.
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08-30-2010, 03:06 PM
#8
TECH Enthusiast
I would recommend either TFS 215 or AFR 205 heads. The 243 heads are good heads, but the machine work done to increase the flow does so at the expense of intake port volume. A larger intake port decreases the air velocity of the head and results in sluggish performance at lower RPM. Both TFS and AFR manage excellent flow with much smaller ports. I previous ran professionally ported 241's. They made very good numbers (still the numbers in my sig), but the driveability and low end response was definitely impaired. When switching to the TFS heads, the first thing I noticed was just how much better the car responded and drove.
Cam wise you really want to talk to a vendor and see what they recommend. Vengeance Racing has put some truly impressive numbers out there with their cams and aftermarket heads. But really any of the competent vendors can probably find a cam that will suit your needs.
Cam wise you really want to talk to a vendor and see what they recommend. Vengeance Racing has put some truly impressive numbers out there with their cams and aftermarket heads. But really any of the competent vendors can probably find a cam that will suit your needs.
08-30-2010, 05:41 PM
#9
I would recommend either TFS 215 or AFR 205 heads. The 243 heads are good heads, but the machine work done to increase the flow does so at the expense of intake port volume. A larger intake port decreases the air velocity of the head and results in sluggish performance at lower RPM. Both TFS and AFR manage excellent flow with much smaller ports. I previous ran professionally ported 241's. They made very good numbers (still the numbers in my sig), but the driveability and low end response was definitely impaired. When switching to the TFS heads, the first thing I noticed was just how much better the car responded and drove.
Cam wise you really want to talk to a vendor and see what they recommend. Vengeance Racing has put some truly impressive numbers out there with their cams and aftermarket heads. But really any of the competent vendors can probably find a cam that will suit your needs.
Cam wise you really want to talk to a vendor and see what they recommend. Vengeance Racing has put some truly impressive numbers out there with their cams and aftermarket heads. But really any of the competent vendors can probably find a cam that will suit your needs.
08-30-2010, 07:46 PM
#10
Banned
I was in carlisle this weekend and talked to ecs and others. They weren't real interested in talking to me do to them selling there accesories. Thats ok though cartek and westchester corvettes along with kooks where great guys. I talked to west coast, breathless, ecs and they didn't seem to want to help. Its a shame no one brought any heads and cams because I am getting anxious. I did buy me a set of kooks headers and x pipe from them. I have to say if any of you guys looking for headers these guys and quality are great. They took there time with me had a beer and they explained which of there products would work for me. American racing just blew me off, little did they know I had pockets full, Im happy with my kooks purchase. I will be contacting cartech, westchester and some of the people you guys mentioned. PLEASE KEEP INFO COMING. If anyones interested in some headers please let me know because I learned alot from the kooks guys, little did I know I didnt want what I thought as far as sizes and such. If anyone is interested pm and Ill start a thread.
08-30-2010, 09:51 PM
#11
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ive got all the bolt-ons with 10.6:1 SCR on my LS6 with the 233/239 cam, FAST 92/Ported LS2 TB, Kooks 1 7/8 LTs, PRC Gold springs, Ported LS6 heads, the rest in in the SIG.
If i could do it again i would go with the G5x4 for N/A power and put the compression at 11.0:1 still using my stock LS6 243 heads of course. If looking for a blower upgrade in the future id go with the Leading Edge Performance MagnaCharger cam and put the compression down to around 10.2:1 with some ETPerformance 245cc heads.
If i could do it again i would go with the G5x4 for N/A power and put the compression at 11.0:1 still using my stock LS6 243 heads of course. If looking for a blower upgrade in the future id go with the Leading Edge Performance MagnaCharger cam and put the compression down to around 10.2:1 with some ETPerformance 245cc heads.
08-31-2010, 12:20 AM
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06 GTO youve got what im looking for with a really radical sound. I love the idea of utilizing the 243s. Did you have to flycut? My goal is th run low low 11's 10s on occasions and looks like you done what most are telling me is impossible with those minor mods. I was no way kicking ecs or others, they were extremely busy but I was hoping to talk to them in person and get a feel for everyones products and make my choice. I am in a toss up between the ms4, polluter, tsunami, carteks setup, or the g5x3 or g5x4 and also trying to fiqure out whos the best porter in the country. I just dont know to run a large cam low compsession or small cam high compression because I dont want to flycut. I know if I run the trick flow solves alot of this but the under hood looking stock will sure be great. But I sure do love that ms4 sound!!
When I went to kooks I was going to buy the 1 7-8 headers and the 3x3x2.5 x pipe. I was suspecting the lose in torque but wanted these headers for a large ci build in future. They said for what I was wanting to do the 1 7-8 would be the wise buy but I got instead the 3x2.5x2.5 which is supose to regain some of the torque I would be losing with the headers. They also said when I decide to go bigger I can convert the x pipe over to the 3x3x2.5 for hardly nothing 180 I believe to be exact and would save me from buying the system all over again and still get the most out of my ls6. Im not running any cats though so a system with cats will be different Im sure. He actually saved me a little money for now and I see why there no reason why they would tell me wrong. Cartek and others told me to listen to them because they know ther stuff when it comes to headers.
KEEP IT COMING GUYS LOVING THE INFO sorry 06 gto see you have piston change, anyone doing same with same kind of mods on a z without cutting
When I went to kooks I was going to buy the 1 7-8 headers and the 3x3x2.5 x pipe. I was suspecting the lose in torque but wanted these headers for a large ci build in future. They said for what I was wanting to do the 1 7-8 would be the wise buy but I got instead the 3x2.5x2.5 which is supose to regain some of the torque I would be losing with the headers. They also said when I decide to go bigger I can convert the x pipe over to the 3x3x2.5 for hardly nothing 180 I believe to be exact and would save me from buying the system all over again and still get the most out of my ls6. Im not running any cats though so a system with cats will be different Im sure. He actually saved me a little money for now and I see why there no reason why they would tell me wrong. Cartek and others told me to listen to them because they know ther stuff when it comes to headers.
KEEP IT COMING GUYS LOVING THE INFO sorry 06 gto see you have piston change, anyone doing same with same kind of mods on a z without cutting
08-31-2010, 10:05 AM
#14
TECH Enthusiast
Also I notice that flycutting is a concern. The valve angle on the TFS heads allows for milling to a 61cc chamber while maintaining stock piston to valve clearances. That was one of the reasons I chose them over the AFR's.
08-31-2010, 12:21 PM
#15
I'm not saying that AFR heads aren't better, but for the money 10HP isn't worth it.
StreetKills ports heads for $475 and they don't take away from velocity. I wish he still had his youtube videos up to explain what he does. He doesn't port them to the point that you lose velocity but you till pick up CFM.
A lot of people port their LS style heads so much that you lose the velocity to gain more CFM but you make less power because of it.
AFR heads are great if you want to spend $2K on heads. But for $750 you can get a set of heads that will give you 30-40HP more without breaking the bank.
http://shop.streetkills.net/Streetki...-219cc-002.htm
StreetKills ports heads for $475 and they don't take away from velocity. I wish he still had his youtube videos up to explain what he does. He doesn't port them to the point that you lose velocity but you till pick up CFM.
A lot of people port their LS style heads so much that you lose the velocity to gain more CFM but you make less power because of it.
AFR heads are great if you want to spend $2K on heads. But for $750 you can get a set of heads that will give you 30-40HP more without breaking the bank.
http://shop.streetkills.net/Streetki...-219cc-002.htm
08-31-2010, 01:20 PM
#16
the heads are coming off anyway and flycutting is really not that hard even for a novice. valve relieves allow the clearance to take advantage of most any cam + piece of mind.
TSP has very good CNC program, wher you send them your cores and they return a ready to bolt on proven head and they are sponsors on here and post regularly.
they have many proven combinations or could set you up with a package tailored to your needs.
what works for another guy may not be acceptable to you.
TSP has very good CNC program, wher you send them your cores and they return a ready to bolt on proven head and they are sponsors on here and post regularly.
they have many proven combinations or could set you up with a package tailored to your needs.
what works for another guy may not be acceptable to you.
08-31-2010, 01:35 PM
#17
TECH Enthusiast
I'm not saying that AFR heads aren't better, but for the money 10HP isn't worth it.
StreetKills ports heads for $475 and they don't take away from velocity. I wish he still had his youtube videos up to explain what he does. He doesn't port them to the point that you lose velocity but you till pick up CFM.
A lot of people port their LS style heads so much that you lose the velocity to gain more CFM but you make less power because of it.
AFR heads are great if you want to spend $2K on heads. But for $750 you can get a set of heads that will give you 30-40HP more without breaking the bank.
http://shop.streetkills.net/Streetki...-219cc-002.htm
StreetKills ports heads for $475 and they don't take away from velocity. I wish he still had his youtube videos up to explain what he does. He doesn't port them to the point that you lose velocity but you till pick up CFM.
A lot of people port their LS style heads so much that you lose the velocity to gain more CFM but you make less power because of it.
AFR heads are great if you want to spend $2K on heads. But for $750 you can get a set of heads that will give you 30-40HP more without breaking the bank.
http://shop.streetkills.net/Streetki...-219cc-002.htm
If the poster was asking for the best budget value in heads, then a ported factory casting or the Dart aftermarkets are the obvious choice. He asked for power and driveability, which the aftermarket castings will be better hands down.
Also you will pickup more than 10hp with a good aftermarket head vs a good factory ported head.
Last edited by 99C5JA; 08-31-2010 at 01:45 PM.
08-31-2010, 02:44 PM
#18
Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I'll be picking up a set of those heads I posted above. Not sure when but it'll be soon. I'm also doing a cam. So we'll see what kind of power I make and then we can decide. No use trying to explain how these heads are ported differently than most LS heads are ported.
I'll be picking up a set of those heads I posted above. Not sure when but it'll be soon. I'm also doing a cam. So we'll see what kind of power I make and then we can decide. No use trying to explain how these heads are ported differently than most LS heads are ported.
08-31-2010, 03:45 PM
#19
TECH Enthusiast
You'll probably make very nice numbers. But take a step back and really compare them. Looking at the heads linked, they are increasing the intake port volume to 219cc. 4cc bigger than the TFS heads. There is no flow sheet on the site that I saw, but the TFS heads exceed the peak 302CFM .600 lift numbers of the ported 243's at .500 lift by 3CFM. They go on to a peak flow of 320CFM at .600, a difference of +18CFM over the ported 243s. The fact that the aftermarket castings are able to exceed the peak numbers of the ported factory castings at a lower lift number with a smaller port says a lot about mid lift numbers. Another way to look at this is that LS6 heads flow around 260CFM stock, the port work here increases flow 42CFM. The TFS heads gain almost half again as much with a smaller port and better valve clearance.
Again I'm sure you'll be happy with your decision. Ported factory castings get the job done. But they aren't without compromise.
Again I'm sure you'll be happy with your decision. Ported factory castings get the job done. But they aren't without compromise.
Last edited by 99C5JA; 08-31-2010 at 04:03 PM.
08-31-2010, 05:24 PM
#20
I DO see what you're saying. It's not different from what I'm saying. I said that the AFR heads are better, but not worth the money for the HP gains over all. I still maintain that.
$2100 - $750 = $1350 to make more power. If money wasn't an issue, I'd definitely buy AFR heads. But if I wanted to maintain a realistic budget, I can make LOTS more power than what I'd make using AFR heads by saving $1350... Like cam, springs, push rods, flywheel, clutch, etc.
That was pretty much my point. The AFR heads aren't going to make up for the HP gains of a cam. That's unarguable.
$2100 - $750 = $1350 to make more power. If money wasn't an issue, I'd definitely buy AFR heads. But if I wanted to maintain a realistic budget, I can make LOTS more power than what I'd make using AFR heads by saving $1350... Like cam, springs, push rods, flywheel, clutch, etc.
That was pretty much my point. The AFR heads aren't going to make up for the HP gains of a cam. That's unarguable.