alexWS6

The car has 4 Boltons (mti ram air intake, bauer throttle body, asp pulley, new LGM header package with 3" off road X pipe) and an LS1edit tune.


This compares everything to just stock with the intake.


The car still, and will always, retain the stock Ti catback. Next mods are a larger airbridge and the meziere street pump. Shooting for 400 RWHP. Swapping intake systems (halltech or ziptie) and dual electric cutouts are also options.

Gotta love the LS6!

FastWhiteTA

And that's in 100 degree temps....very impressive!! That's why I can't wait to get my Z06 and put full bolt ons. Heh, it's as much or more power as a Heads Cam LS1. Without touching the oil! You're right, gotta love it. Although, I am loving the 425 rwhp I have seen coming from a bone stock Viper GTS. The new SRT-10 Vipers are even more powerful. Driven a 96 Viper GTS. It was awesome.

FLYNLO

Alex, I wanted to talk to someone who got the LGM headers. How do y'all like them?...fit and finish? Do you have any idea how much power they added? Before and after dyno without having to factor other mods? And how close are they with an x-pipe/hi flow cat set up? Thanks, been header shopping for awhile. Who did the tuning? Thanks in advance and sorry for all the questions.

alexWS6

The headers are awesome. The fit and finish is great. Everything was added at once so its hard to say how much each mod was worth I had a full post with pics and then another with videos over on the vette forums I'll try to dig up. Also there are several other people's results on there. Jeremy (Godspeed) at LGM did the tuning. You will not be dissapointed with them, the car feels a ton faster. Was about to go for a drive just now but got hit with the dreaded column lock!

FLYNLO

Thanks for the answers. I guess y'all took the car up to Dallas? How is their shop up there and wer you happy with their service? I was thinking of having a little work done up there. I will be sticking with the Stock Ti as well.....although you might find that mythical 10 more HP in a set of Stingers

alexWS6

Couldnt be happier with the service, well worth the drive to avoid the Houston shops. Check these threads out....


http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showt...threadid=42426

http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showt...threadid=42561

FLYNLO

Thanks, Alex. I guess that is the route I will go. I think a cam is in my future as well. I know what you mean about getting a little variety as far as shops go in the Houston area...I feel the same way. Anyway, congrats on the set up. Hope to see y'all out on the streeet soon.

Dean-o

Temp doesn't matter on a dynomometer because they have correction factors for temp and humidity. So on a cold day, your corrected will be lower than actual and on a hot day your corrected will be higher than actual. Otherwise your dyno numbers would vary from day to day, which isn't accurate.
Also, as much as a heads cam LS1 is not correct. Cam/ bolt on LS1s dyno from 370-380. Heads/Cam LS1s dyno around 420+ depending on the head /cam combo. So don't fool yourself into believing a LS6 is putting out as much power as a heads cam LS1 with just some bolt ons. You WILL have to touch the oil to get those numbers.

Dean

alexWS6

[quote]
We'll see about that

Dean-o

Good luck to ya!

Dean-o

The main reason I say that a LS6 with bolts ons will not exceed or match the same output as a heads/cam LS1 is because of the dyno numbers I have been seeing for quite some time out of both engines, and logically it doesn't make sense because the two components that make the real power difference between the two will be negated by a heads/cam LS1.
A Ls6 with a C2 cam and headers can put down around 420 rwhp, but I have never seen one with the stock cam make that kind of power.

The Ls6 block doesn't give you any more power, and the LS6 intake is on most LS1 motors, so the only big difference is the LS6 cam and LS6 heads. I don't believe it has more compression than the LS1 either. So if you take an LS1 and put a cam in that is better than the stock LS6 cam (and everyone does) and then put some stage 2 heads on (that flow better than LS6 heads), then it only stands to reason that with a good flowing exhaust that it would put out more horsepower.

Prove me wrong.

alexWS6

I agree 100%

Generally, H/C LS1s can make anywhere from 390 RWHP to 460 RWHP so it is a little broad to say this will be achieved, but it is fun experimenting.

FLYNLO

Dean, all good points although I am not sure I understood your "corrected" dyno explanation. Like you said, the SAE correction is to correct for "non-standard" ambient conditions. The idea is that your corrected Dyno numbers should be basically equal regardless of ambient conditions. Do if you dyno on a cold day or on a hot day, the corrected numbers should be the same...theoretically. As far as compression ratio goes, the LS1 is 10.1:1 and the LS6 is 10.5:1(in 2001. I almost want to say part of the improvements to the 2002 version raised this to 11:1 but I cannot find anything to substantiate that...that number lingers in my head for whatever reason.). Another difference is the valvetrain. The LS6 has sodium filled valves which allows better valvetrain stability at higher RPMs...hence the increase in redline to 6600RPMs. It also serves to lighten the mass of moving parts which contributes to freer mobility of said parts.

LittleBoyBlu99

AlexWs6 bring that baby to Hallsville Raceway sept. 27 for the Fastest Street Vette in Texas VI shootout hosted by XTREME Corvette Club in Dallas.There is a group of guys coming up together from Houston.These guys race at HRP on Sundays.I can hook you up with them for the trip if you are looking to do so. The regular programs will still be running also so every one can attend.

Dean-o

John,
You just repeated what I said basically about the dyno corrections. My point was, when it is hot your corrected number for the average ends up being higher than your actual dyno. And when it is cold, your corrected average would lower your dyno vs your actual. I don't know how else I can make it clear? There is a correction factor used by the dynomometer accordingly per the temp and humidity, therefore;
I have dynoed on cold winter days and my numbers were corrected to be lower than what I actually dynoed. I have dynoed on hot summer days where my dyno numbers were corrected and ended up being higher than my actual numbers. Not all dyno sheets show actual vs corrected, some just show corrected numbers. Anyway, the actual is what you are actually putting down to the rear wheels on that particular day due to the weather. But to get a national average, it has to be corrected. Otherwise the guys up north would get all the good numbers, while us people down south would pale in comparison. So your motor does vary in output due to temp and humidity, notice how peppy your car is in the winter? Notice how everyone runs better times at the track during the winter? So once again my point is that if you look at the extremes on both sides of the average, the correction factor either raises your actual or lowers it accordingly. Is that clear yet?

Also I checked and you are right about the compression, the LS1 is 10.1 and the LS6 is 10.5. They did not raise the compression as far as I know, 2003 is still showing 10.5 as the compression.
And like I said, the biggest differenecs in power are typically negated by a heads /cam LS1. First, the cams people are putting in their motors are far more radical than anything GM is putting in them, second the stage 2 heads are ported and have oversized valves, dual springs, titanium retainers, etc. Also they are typically milled to raise compression. Then of course you add some chromoly push rods at the correct length. This will allow you to redline at 6800 reliably and the new valve train is lighter and stronger. So I don't see how the LS6 could out perform this stock with bolt ons. The heads and cams available can easily exceed the performance capabilities of stock LS6 components because they are after all stock. So how can you compare stock to aftermarket and say a motor with the stock parts will put out more power? It just doesn't make sense. Besides, some of the guys with heads /cam LS1s have stage 2 LS6 heads!

Hope that clears things up some.

Dean

FLYNLO

Yeah, it was just the way you explained it made it sound like your corrrected numbers varied. Anyway, we were saying the same thing.....and yes, I am aware of how ambient conditions affect performance. If I wasn't aware of this, I would be sitting at the bottome of a smoking hole somewhere at the end of a runway. In airplanes, it not only affects the internal combustion aspect but also the density of air required to produce lift. So it is a double whammy for us.

I don't know where you were going with the stock versus aftermarket heads and cam. I am well aware that aftermarket components have a tendency to be superior. I do have a question for you and my data is not anywhere close to being scientific( I realize that there are many variables involved). It seems to be my observation that a Stage 2 LS6 vs a Stage 2 LS1....that the LS6 version puts out more power(440rwhp vs 420rwhp respectively). Is this a correct observation? Would we not assume that all things being equal(heads, cam, and all other accessories), the power should be the same between the two? This is not what I have observed and I don't know why.

LG Motorsports

Don't forget that on a hot Texas day, the CPU pulls out timing for intake air temps that exceed the range. It is not wise to eliminate this feature in Texas. The dyno room was 104degrees. And we saw the timing being pulled out. We would not put in more timing because that could cause even more trouble, and KR.

So in theory the correction factor should make all things equal, except for that darn GM computer that won't let the car make the HP in the heat.

there is nothing wrong with the SAE correction factor, it is in the GM computer.

Plus every "Bottom Breather" air intake on a C5 pulls less hp on a Dyno, standing still, due to the hotter intake air temp. the dyno weather station does not correct for the hot radiator air temp. the weather station saw 104 degrees. The intake air temp was over 120+ due to the hot radiator air temp at the bottom breather intake set up.

Thanks
Lou Gigliotti
LG Motorsports
972-272-7753

2002z28b

Is it just me or does the torque numbers seem a bit low. RWHP is great but its the torque where you will feel the difference. With a few bolts-ons im at 362 ft-lbs at the reap.
LS6 this!
justin

Dean-o

John,
I do believe the LS6 heads are better, but don't know why? If you took LS1 heads and LS6 heads and ported both and put in the same size valves, springs, etc., you would think they would flow the same unless the castings are different, which is what I believe is the difference. So yes, the LS6 heads make more power mod for mod.
As for the dyno not helping with ram air, I have argued that before. I have an SS that gets fresh cool air from outside of the engine compartment and should to some degree pressurize the air flow at higher speeds. This horsepower gain is not realized sitting on a dyno. But I have people who argue the fact that the ram air cars (WS6, SS, Firehawk) do not typically run any faster in the quarter mile? So I'm not to sure how much it helps. I do know my air intake temps were lower than my friends Firebird when I was just sitting at a light, much less driving down the road. We compared a couple of years ago using Autotap because of the argument that ram air didn't help until you hit triple digits, but we proved that wrong due to AIT readings. We all know cooler air is better for performance.

Dean

FLYNLO

Justin, bring it, don't sing it!!!! And Dean, yeah, I didn't think about the heads. That would be the difference.