New Outlaw Drag Radial Class
12-02-2006, 08:18 AM
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New Outlaw Drag Radial Class Check it out looks like we got a real good shot at a new Outlaw Drag Radial class here in the north east. A bunch of us on godragracing.com got on a mission to put together a set of rules that will allow as many cars and combos as possible and leveled the field with tires and weight. It truly was a great effort by everyone with no BS.
http://forums.godragracing.com/viewtopic.php?t=43381
http://forums.godragracing.com/viewtopic.php?t=43381
12-02-2006, 08:52 AM
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keep the rules simple
any car with bfg's 3300
any car with m/t 3400
allow any suspension with stock frame rails (i.e msra)and tack on a 100lbs to the baseweight of whatever tire they are running
that will open up the class to more diverse body styles. and let the early iron compete. the weight doesn't effect certs because no car can go faster than 7.50 at over 3200 anyway. might see some ez street and limited street car slap on a radial if you allow modified suspensions. don't limit tire size because i know there were some races i didn't go to because they don't allow the 315 but i need that tire for my mph. and i am stock suspension as seen below so i'm not trying to sway things my way.
any car with bfg's 3300
any car with m/t 3400
allow any suspension with stock frame rails (i.e msra)and tack on a 100lbs to the baseweight of whatever tire they are running
that will open up the class to more diverse body styles. and let the early iron compete. the weight doesn't effect certs because no car can go faster than 7.50 at over 3200 anyway. might see some ez street and limited street car slap on a radial if you allow modified suspensions. don't limit tire size because i know there were some races i didn't go to because they don't allow the 315 but i need that tire for my mph. and i am stock suspension as seen below so i'm not trying to sway things my way.
12-02-2006, 09:59 AM
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I wish it was that easy. We had to look at past results for the different combo's and make adjustments accordingly. The key is to keep the feild as competetive as possible. As far as the cert's I am sure we will be seeing changes in the near future. The guy's in Heavy Street and Drag Radial are really pushing the limits. I am currently updating my car with a 25-2/25-5 cage.
12-02-2006, 11:05 AM
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well then if you won't allow altered suspension then you can't run. i have nothing against your car so i'm ot one of the bitchers but it's all or nothing don't say it's not that simple to let all suspensions race then say your going to allow the vette tq arm.
12-02-2006, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 68maro
well then if you won't allow altered suspension then you can't run. i have nothing against your car so i'm ot one of the bitchers but it's all or nothing don't say it's not that simple to let all suspensions race then say your going to allow the vette tq arm.
I have no problem allowing each and every type of suspension out there with stock frame rails. The fact of the matter is Orlando and a few others that allow stock type approved my setup not the ladder bars and 4 links (like it or not). That is what separates us. Again if they choose to allow all suspensions I am fine with it. Now on your simple rules if you want to let me run on MT @ 3400lbs that’s fine too. I will be at the top of the field and we will have maybe 4-6 competitive cars and the class will die. I hope you choose to run the class and maybe we can get a little grudge race going. Heads up same weight same tire we both have torque arms. Have no problem with your suggestion but I think you need to look at the past performance of all the combos out there and revisit the rules.
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12-03-2006, 12:56 AM
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paul i like you car and think it should run in an outlaw style class. but if you can run then everyone should be able to. per my suggestion you'd have to run a 3500 as an altered suspension penlty just like a 4 link or ladderbar would. and if you wanna grudge run i'm all for it. heads up racing at it's best.
12-03-2006, 12:21 PM
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From what i have heard, SFI is working on some alterations to 25.2 spec that will be legal to run over 3200lbs. Which is good. But i don't thing that 3400lbs or more is safe at these speeds, i don't care what suspension is under the car.
When we went 7.40 the mustang weighed about 3340lbs, do you really think that 70lbs is going to slow the car down that much? Also remember that was on the 325's not the 315's.
If it's an Outlaw class then let it be an Outlaw class, If not then limit the power adders and the tires and be specific what is allowed for suspension. That is why Limited Street is becoming so popular (the simple rules.)
When we went 7.40 the mustang weighed about 3340lbs, do you really think that 70lbs is going to slow the car down that much? Also remember that was on the 325's not the 315's.
If it's an Outlaw class then let it be an Outlaw class, If not then limit the power adders and the tires and be specific what is allowed for suspension. That is why Limited Street is becoming so popular (the simple rules.)
12-03-2006, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan / Wolfe Race Craft
From what i have heard, SFI is working on some alterations to 25.2 spec that will be legal to run over 3200lbs. Which is good. But i don't thing that 3400lbs or more is safe at these speeds, i don't care what suspension is under the car.
When we went 7.40 the mustang weighed about 3340lbs, do you really think that 70lbs is going to slow the car down that much? Also remember that was on the 325's not the 315's.
If it's an Outlaw class then let it be an Outlaw class, If not then limit the power adders and the tires and be specific what is allowed for suspension. That is why Limited Street is becoming so popular (the simple rules.)
When we went 7.40 the mustang weighed about 3340lbs, do you really think that 70lbs is going to slow the car down that much? Also remember that was on the 325's not the 315's.
If it's an Outlaw class then let it be an Outlaw class, If not then limit the power adders and the tires and be specific what is allowed for suspension. That is why Limited Street is becoming so popular (the simple rules.)
12-03-2006, 01:34 PM
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I believe Paul is talking about evening out the class using the tires, & weight based on the power adders. But i believe 3400 or above is just too much weigh.
As far as suspension. if it is an truely an Outlaw Drag Radial class, I don't have a problem with Pauls car or even ladder bars. No 4 links. In small tire classes the ladder bars are not an advatage, look at Limited Street.
Now if you are wanting to call it a Stock Suspension Drag Radial Class then that may be different and needs to be spelled out in the rules.
I really like the Limited Street and the Outlaw Drag Radial Classes as do the fans and many of the racers. But with any class, there will be some that just don't like it, no matter what the rules are. You can't please eveyone. I think as some point there is going to have to be 2 Drag Radial Classes. An Outlaw Drag Radial and maybe like a Renegade Drag Radial that is more restrictive and slower.
As far as suspension. if it is an truely an Outlaw Drag Radial class, I don't have a problem with Pauls car or even ladder bars. No 4 links. In small tire classes the ladder bars are not an advatage, look at Limited Street.
Now if you are wanting to call it a Stock Suspension Drag Radial Class then that may be different and needs to be spelled out in the rules.
I really like the Limited Street and the Outlaw Drag Radial Classes as do the fans and many of the racers. But with any class, there will be some that just don't like it, no matter what the rules are. You can't please eveyone. I think as some point there is going to have to be 2 Drag Radial Classes. An Outlaw Drag Radial and maybe like a Renegade Drag Radial that is more restrictive and slower.
12-03-2006, 01:53 PM
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it needs to be all or nothing either have a stock suspension class with rules like this
1. Any size radial tire
2. Any one type power adder. No nitro, no alcohol. Any cubic inch permitted.
3. Stock suspension only;
• DIRECT BOLT on replacement parts (coil over shocks and minimal mini tub OK).
• No ladder bars
• No 4-links
• Weld in anti roll okay
• Torque Arms allowed if car was originally equipped with one (ie 3rd and 4th gen F-Body, Buick GNX)
• Leaf spring cars allowed slapper bars, cal-trac bars, smith trax and complete mono or multi leafs, no half leaf/coil over combos allowed, moving springs inboard is permitted
• Suspension type must be as originally equipped : factory attachment points must be used, forward mount on F body torque arm attached to cross member permitted
• Factory frame notching permitted
4. No wheelie bars.
5. Mufflers required
6. 3,000 lbs. min. weight. (All cars will be weighed prior to run). or whatever weight is decided.
7. 4/10ths PRO TREE, IHRA Rules Apply, Driver and Car Safety Equipment will be used. Tech director reserves the right to deny any competitor deemed unsafe or not meeting the spirit of the rules.
or outlaw rules with any suspension but weight penalties for altered suspensions. because i don't see how it's fair to allow torque arms on some cars but not any car. or allow a torque arm on a non stock suspension car but not a 4 link.
either all or nothing.
1. Any size radial tire
2. Any one type power adder. No nitro, no alcohol. Any cubic inch permitted.
3. Stock suspension only;
• DIRECT BOLT on replacement parts (coil over shocks and minimal mini tub OK).
• No ladder bars
• No 4-links
• Weld in anti roll okay
• Torque Arms allowed if car was originally equipped with one (ie 3rd and 4th gen F-Body, Buick GNX)
• Leaf spring cars allowed slapper bars, cal-trac bars, smith trax and complete mono or multi leafs, no half leaf/coil over combos allowed, moving springs inboard is permitted
• Suspension type must be as originally equipped : factory attachment points must be used, forward mount on F body torque arm attached to cross member permitted
• Factory frame notching permitted
4. No wheelie bars.
5. Mufflers required
6. 3,000 lbs. min. weight. (All cars will be weighed prior to run). or whatever weight is decided.
7. 4/10ths PRO TREE, IHRA Rules Apply, Driver and Car Safety Equipment will be used. Tech director reserves the right to deny any competitor deemed unsafe or not meeting the spirit of the rules.
or outlaw rules with any suspension but weight penalties for altered suspensions. because i don't see how it's fair to allow torque arms on some cars but not any car. or allow a torque arm on a non stock suspension car but not a 4 link.
either all or nothing.
12-03-2006, 11:51 PM
#15
Originally Posted by 68maro
it needs to be all or nothing either have a stock suspension class with rules like this
1. Any size radial tire
2. Any one type power adder. No nitro, no alcohol. Any cubic inch permitted.
3. Stock suspension only;
• DIRECT BOLT on replacement parts (coil over shocks and minimal mini tub OK).
• No ladder bars
• No 4-links
• Weld in anti roll okay
• Torque Arms allowed if car was originally equipped with one (ie 3rd and 4th gen F-Body, Buick GNX)
• Leaf spring cars allowed slapper bars, cal-trac bars, smith trax and complete mono or multi leafs, no half leaf/coil over combos allowed, moving springs inboard is permitted
• Suspension type must be as originally equipped : factory attachment points must be used, forward mount on F body torque arm attached to cross member permitted
• Factory frame notching permitted
4. No wheelie bars.
5. Mufflers required
6. 3,000 lbs. min. weight. (All cars will be weighed prior to run). or whatever weight is decided.
7. 4/10ths PRO TREE, IHRA Rules Apply, Driver and Car Safety Equipment will be used. Tech director reserves the right to deny any competitor deemed unsafe or not meeting the spirit of the rules.
or outlaw rules with any suspension but weight penalties for altered suspensions. because i don't see how it's fair to allow torque arms on some cars but not any car. or allow a torque arm on a non stock suspension car but not a 4 link.
either all or nothing.
1. Any size radial tire
2. Any one type power adder. No nitro, no alcohol. Any cubic inch permitted.
3. Stock suspension only;
• DIRECT BOLT on replacement parts (coil over shocks and minimal mini tub OK).
• No ladder bars
• No 4-links
• Weld in anti roll okay
• Torque Arms allowed if car was originally equipped with one (ie 3rd and 4th gen F-Body, Buick GNX)
• Leaf spring cars allowed slapper bars, cal-trac bars, smith trax and complete mono or multi leafs, no half leaf/coil over combos allowed, moving springs inboard is permitted
• Suspension type must be as originally equipped : factory attachment points must be used, forward mount on F body torque arm attached to cross member permitted
• Factory frame notching permitted
4. No wheelie bars.
5. Mufflers required
6. 3,000 lbs. min. weight. (All cars will be weighed prior to run). or whatever weight is decided.
7. 4/10ths PRO TREE, IHRA Rules Apply, Driver and Car Safety Equipment will be used. Tech director reserves the right to deny any competitor deemed unsafe or not meeting the spirit of the rules.
or outlaw rules with any suspension but weight penalties for altered suspensions. because i don't see how it's fair to allow torque arms on some cars but not any car. or allow a torque arm on a non stock suspension car but not a 4 link.
either all or nothing.
12-04-2006, 03:39 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by Dan / Wolfe Race Craft
I really like the Limited Street and the Outlaw Drag Radial Classes as do the fans and many of the racers. But with any class, there will be some that just don't like it, no matter what the rules are. You can't please eveyone. I think as some point there is going to have to be 2 Drag Radial Classes. An Outlaw Drag Radial and maybe like a Renegade Drag Radial that is more restrictive and slower.
Again the Milan rules are super simple.
12-04-2006, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan / Wolfe Race Craft
I believe Paul is talking about evening out the class using the tires, & weight based on the power adders. But i believe 3400 or above is just too much weigh.
As far as suspension. if it is an truely an Outlaw Drag Radial class, I don't have a problem with Pauls car or even ladder bars. No 4 links. In small tire classes the ladder bars are not an advatage, look at Limited Street.
Now if you are wanting to call it a Stock Suspension Drag Radial Class then that may be different and needs to be spelled out in the rules.
I really like the Limited Street and the Outlaw Drag Radial Classes as do the fans and many of the racers. But with any class, there will be some that just don't like it, no matter what the rules are. You can't please eveyone. I think as some point there is going to have to be 2 Drag Radial Classes. An Outlaw Drag Radial and maybe like a Renegade Drag Radial that is more restrictive and slower.
As far as suspension. if it is an truely an Outlaw Drag Radial class, I don't have a problem with Pauls car or even ladder bars. No 4 links. In small tire classes the ladder bars are not an advatage, look at Limited Street.
Now if you are wanting to call it a Stock Suspension Drag Radial Class then that may be different and needs to be spelled out in the rules.
I really like the Limited Street and the Outlaw Drag Radial Classes as do the fans and many of the racers. But with any class, there will be some that just don't like it, no matter what the rules are. You can't please eveyone. I think as some point there is going to have to be 2 Drag Radial Classes. An Outlaw Drag Radial and maybe like a Renegade Drag Radial that is more restrictive and slower.
Thanks You hit it on the head!!! We are trying to create a point’s series for the drag radial guys. In order for it to survive we need it to be competitive not a 4-6 car show. We have the shake down, street nationals etc… for that. We felt that the best way to level the playing field would be by playing with the tire and weight. I agree 3400lbs is heavy but we run that now. There are no plans of anyone having to run any heavier. This isn’t a stock suspension class and there is a good chance that ladder bars will also be accepted.
Thanks for the input
Paul
