Couple cage questions
Couple cage questions The car is a 98 formula. Will be heads cam prolly 100 shot as well. Looking for 510+ on the spray.
I was talking with a buddy and he said that cages help the car and are not just for safety. How much truth is their to that?
The help rigidity correct? If so would it make, say, the same difference as sub frames.
How heavy is a say a cheap steel tube cage? ballpark.
Any other input as to the difference i would notice in caging a street car.
Thanks in advance guys.
I was talking with a buddy and he said that cages help the car and are not just for safety. How much truth is their to that?
The help rigidity correct? If so would it make, say, the same difference as sub frames.
How heavy is a say a cheap steel tube cage? ballpark.
Any other input as to the difference i would notice in caging a street car.
Thanks in advance guys.
Yes it makes the car much more rigid... just think about how it ties the car together. I have both roll bar and subframes but some folks say witht he cage that the subframes aren't needed (debatable). My Wolfe 6-point bolt-in mild steel weighs 85#'s and was a breeze to install, cost 575.
So does it help it launch much straighter? pick up any in the 60ft?
From some of the talk i have been having with some VERY big hitting street guys the added weight in the rear is a plus anyway.
So from a dig on the street do you guys agree that the cage would ADD performance... as well as much mo safa
From some of the talk i have been having with some VERY big hitting street guys the added weight in the rear is a plus anyway.
So from a dig on the street do you guys agree that the cage would ADD performance... as well as much mo safa
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,251
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From: Tuscaloosa, AL.
So does it help it launch much straighter? pick up any in the 60ft?
From some of the talk i have been having with some VERY big hitting street guys the added weight in the rear is a plus anyway.
So from a dig on the street do you guys agree that the cage would ADD performance... as well as much mo safa
From some of the talk i have been having with some VERY big hitting street guys the added weight in the rear is a plus anyway.
So from a dig on the street do you guys agree that the cage would ADD performance... as well as much mo safa
Check out my sig.... I am running a setup similar to which you intend to with a little more rwhp.
I have subframe connectors and they are more than adequate to prevent chassis flex.
As far as rigity goes, the cage will help but it will be less effective than Subframe connectors. Additionally, the added weight will outweight any rigidity benifits at your power level.
However, if you put down 510rwhp you will probably need to run a 6-point to pass tech inspection because you will likely run sub 11.99.
If it is just a street car, then skip the cage and spend the money on a better set of heads or an intake.
Check out my sig.... I am running a setup similar to which you intend to with a little more rwhp.
I have subframe connectors and they are more than adequate to prevent chassis flex.
As far as rigity goes, the cage will help but it will be less effective than Subframe connectors. Additionally, the added weight will outweight any rigidity benifits at your power level.
However, if you put down 510rwhp you will probably need to run a 6-point to pass tech inspection because you will likely run sub 11.99.
If it is just a street car, then skip the cage and spend the money on a better set of heads or an intake.
I have subframe connectors and they are more than adequate to prevent chassis flex.
As far as rigity goes, the cage will help but it will be less effective than Subframe connectors. Additionally, the added weight will outweight any rigidity benifits at your power level.
However, if you put down 510rwhp you will probably need to run a 6-point to pass tech inspection because you will likely run sub 11.99.
If it is just a street car, then skip the cage and spend the money on a better set of heads or an intake.
Have you ever had a caged car?
The weight will probably help in my car as it is not stock weight in the front.
I probably run faster than 11.99 with bolt ons. If not im within a tenth or two as is... if my 500 hp car runs an 11.x at all ill brick the go pedal and aim it at a cliff.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
From: Tuscaloosa, AL.
Whats your best 60ft?
Have you ever had a caged car?
The weight will probably help in my car as it is not stock weight in the front.
I probably run faster than 11.99 with bolt ons. If not im within a tenth or two as is... if my 500 hp car runs an 11.x at all ill brick the go pedal and aim it at a cliff.
Have you ever had a caged car?
The weight will probably help in my car as it is not stock weight in the front.
I probably run faster than 11.99 with bolt ons. If not im within a tenth or two as is... if my 500 hp car runs an 11.x at all ill brick the go pedal and aim it at a cliff.
Running a 10.x in a 6-speed is harder than it sounds. Good luck.
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Expectations are high but thats good. I have not gotten the car to 60ft yet because I am having transmissions problems (in the process of replacing master/clutch). I am also currently (as in this weekend) taking the AC, bumper supports, ext. out of the car and installing ozite carpet.
Running a 10.x in a 6-speed is harder than it sounds. Good luck.
Running a 10.x in a 6-speed is harder than it sounds. Good luck.
So have you ever had a caged car?
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Before 6-pt, s&w torq arm, and subframes my car was 1.8-1.9 60'... 12.70's
After was high 1.6's-1.7's... 12.60's
With susp and cage I added over 100#'s to the car... got .2 on the 60' and .1 on 1/4 ET. Also, before I was trapping @ 115-116, after it was consistantly 114.
Plus... don't discount the safety you add with a roll bar, it's a good thing!
Before 6-pt, s&w torq arm, and subframes my car was 1.8-1.9 60'... 12.70's
After was high 1.6's-1.7's... 12.60's
With susp and cage I added over 100#'s to the car... got .2 on the 60' and .1 on 1/4 ET. Also, before I was trapping @ 115-116, after it was consistantly 114.
Plus... don't discount the safety you add with a roll bar, it's a good thing!
if your goin mild steel and looking for the lowest priced 6pt check out jegs cages. they are cheap but you'll need the tools to install it. i spent lik 300 on my 10pt from jegs and the cage meets nhra spec
Check out my sig.... I am running a setup similar to which you intend to with a little more rwhp.
I have subframe connectors and they are more than adequate to prevent chassis flex.
As far as rigity goes, the cage will help but it will be less effective than Subframe connectors. Additionally, the added weight will outweight any rigidity benifits at your power level.
However, if you put down 510rwhp you will probably need to run a 6-point to pass tech inspection because you will likely run sub 11.99.
If it is just a street car, then skip the cage and spend the money on a better set of heads or an intake.
I have subframe connectors and they are more than adequate to prevent chassis flex.
As far as rigity goes, the cage will help but it will be less effective than Subframe connectors. Additionally, the added weight will outweight any rigidity benifits at your power level.
However, if you put down 510rwhp you will probably need to run a 6-point to pass tech inspection because you will likely run sub 11.99.
If it is just a street car, then skip the cage and spend the money on a better set of heads or an intake.
I've had both and there is no comparison. A caged car is MUCH stiffer and helps the chassis "Work" I'll bet money that your car would launch straighter, 60' better, and be a little easier on parts if you caged it.
I've installed a few of them myself. There isn't anything wrong with them if you don't mind a little grinding to fit. Very cheap too!
7 Second Club
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,834
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From: Gainesville, Florida # of drag strips runs: ?!?!?
Just for a little clarification on the roll bar versus roll cage postings in this thread:
www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-tech/880990-what-do-i-need-safety-requirements-nhra-rollbar-rollcage-harness-etc.html
11.49 1/4-mile (7.35 1/8-mile) or quicker:
-A 5-point minimum roll bar on a fixed roof car (t-tops okay as well if in place while racing) from 11.49 to 11.00 (7.00 1/8-mile). If the hardtop / t-top car has un-altered floors, firewall and frame rails (wheel tubs are okay), then the 5-point roll bar is good til 10.00 1/4 mile (6.40 1/8-mile). Convertibles require the 5-point bar from 13.49 (8.25 1/8-mile to 11.00 (7.00 1/8-mile).
The rollbar must be constructed of a minimum o.d. mild steel or chrome moly tubing (moly can be a smaller o.d and is lighter but more expensive), see diagram below for specs.
The roll bar can be bolted or welded to the floor, see diagram below for specs.
Roll bar must be padded anywhere the driver's helmet may contact it while in the driving position, see diagram below for specs.
The 5-points are:
Main hoop; 2 "down bars" (bars that go from the main hoop rearward to the trunk floor/hatch area. These can be straight or bent like a "package tray" style, search for photos); Welded crossbar for belts (can't be removable), see rulebook for exact location. Driver side door bar (can be a swing-out. Many put a passenger's side bar in as well (6-point) because it strengthens the car on both sides, but if you have subframe connectors the difference may be minimal).
10.99 1/4-mile (6.99 1/8-mile) or quicker:
-5-point roll bar is still okay to 10.00 1/4-mile (6.40 1/8-mile) in hardtop / t-top with un-altered floors, firewall and frame rails (wheel tubs are okay). If the floor and/or firewall has been modified, then a full roll cage is required beginning at a 10.99 e.t. or any vehicle running 135 mph or faster (regardless of e.t.). The roll cage must be constructed of a minimum o.d. mild steel or chrome moly tubing (moly can be a smaller o.d and is lighter but more expensive), see diagram below for specs. Roll cage must be padded anywhere the driver's helmet may contact it while in the driving position, see diagram below for specs.
-Convertibles require full roll cage at 10.99 and quicker.
See diagram below.
-aftermarket axles with positive retention (c-clip eliminators)
-Transmission shield SFI Spec 4.1 at 10.99 and quicker or 135 mph and quicker (blanket is okay, no expiration date)
-Harmonic Balancer SFI Spec 18.1 (no expiration date)
9.99 1/4-mile (6.39 1/8-mile)/ 135 mph or quicker:
-Roll cage is required on all vehicles at 9.99 and quicker or any vehicle running 135 mph or faster (regardless of e.t.). The roll cage must be constructed of a minimum o.d. mild steel or chrome moly tubing (moly can be a smaller o.d and is lighter but more expensive), see diagram below for specs. Roll cage must be padded anywhere the driver's helmet may contact it while in the driving position, see diagram below for specs. Roll cage must also be certified by NHRA every 3 years and have a serialized sticker affixed prior to participation. This style of cage is good til 8.50 1/4-mile times, then a funny car style cage is required.
See diagram below.
-Window net required (can be ribbon or mesh, no altering allowed unless done by manufacturer. 2009 NHRA rule book states mesh nets carry a manufacturer date and a 2 year expiration/re-cert, while ribbon are good forever. Check with your local track or division).
-NHRA competition driver's license required, done by car designation (dragster, door car, etc). A physical, 2 NHRA licensed drivers to witness/sign your forms and a minimum of 6 runs are required. For NHRA license form click here: www.nhra.com/contacts/forms/licenseapp.pdf, for NHRA physical form click here: www.nhra.com/contacts/forms/physical01.pdf
And yes, a stiffer chassis from the cage is a great thing as posted. In a street car you will notice a big difference when going from no bar or cage to having one. Figure out what times you are realistically trying to achieve and then plan your safety additions.
Derek
www.ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-tech/880990-what-do-i-need-safety-requirements-nhra-rollbar-rollcage-harness-etc.html
11.49 1/4-mile (7.35 1/8-mile) or quicker:
-A 5-point minimum roll bar on a fixed roof car (t-tops okay as well if in place while racing) from 11.49 to 11.00 (7.00 1/8-mile). If the hardtop / t-top car has un-altered floors, firewall and frame rails (wheel tubs are okay), then the 5-point roll bar is good til 10.00 1/4 mile (6.40 1/8-mile). Convertibles require the 5-point bar from 13.49 (8.25 1/8-mile to 11.00 (7.00 1/8-mile).
The rollbar must be constructed of a minimum o.d. mild steel or chrome moly tubing (moly can be a smaller o.d and is lighter but more expensive), see diagram below for specs.
The roll bar can be bolted or welded to the floor, see diagram below for specs.
Roll bar must be padded anywhere the driver's helmet may contact it while in the driving position, see diagram below for specs.
The 5-points are:
Main hoop; 2 "down bars" (bars that go from the main hoop rearward to the trunk floor/hatch area. These can be straight or bent like a "package tray" style, search for photos); Welded crossbar for belts (can't be removable), see rulebook for exact location. Driver side door bar (can be a swing-out. Many put a passenger's side bar in as well (6-point) because it strengthens the car on both sides, but if you have subframe connectors the difference may be minimal).
10.99 1/4-mile (6.99 1/8-mile) or quicker:
-5-point roll bar is still okay to 10.00 1/4-mile (6.40 1/8-mile) in hardtop / t-top with un-altered floors, firewall and frame rails (wheel tubs are okay). If the floor and/or firewall has been modified, then a full roll cage is required beginning at a 10.99 e.t. or any vehicle running 135 mph or faster (regardless of e.t.). The roll cage must be constructed of a minimum o.d. mild steel or chrome moly tubing (moly can be a smaller o.d and is lighter but more expensive), see diagram below for specs. Roll cage must be padded anywhere the driver's helmet may contact it while in the driving position, see diagram below for specs.
-Convertibles require full roll cage at 10.99 and quicker.
See diagram below.
-aftermarket axles with positive retention (c-clip eliminators)
-Transmission shield SFI Spec 4.1 at 10.99 and quicker or 135 mph and quicker (blanket is okay, no expiration date)
-Harmonic Balancer SFI Spec 18.1 (no expiration date)
9.99 1/4-mile (6.39 1/8-mile)/ 135 mph or quicker:
-Roll cage is required on all vehicles at 9.99 and quicker or any vehicle running 135 mph or faster (regardless of e.t.). The roll cage must be constructed of a minimum o.d. mild steel or chrome moly tubing (moly can be a smaller o.d and is lighter but more expensive), see diagram below for specs. Roll cage must be padded anywhere the driver's helmet may contact it while in the driving position, see diagram below for specs. Roll cage must also be certified by NHRA every 3 years and have a serialized sticker affixed prior to participation. This style of cage is good til 8.50 1/4-mile times, then a funny car style cage is required.
See diagram below.
-Window net required (can be ribbon or mesh, no altering allowed unless done by manufacturer. 2009 NHRA rule book states mesh nets carry a manufacturer date and a 2 year expiration/re-cert, while ribbon are good forever. Check with your local track or division).
-NHRA competition driver's license required, done by car designation (dragster, door car, etc). A physical, 2 NHRA licensed drivers to witness/sign your forms and a minimum of 6 runs are required. For NHRA license form click here: www.nhra.com/contacts/forms/licenseapp.pdf, for NHRA physical form click here: www.nhra.com/contacts/forms/physical01.pdf
And yes, a stiffer chassis from the cage is a great thing as posted. In a street car you will notice a big difference when going from no bar or cage to having one. Figure out what times you are realistically trying to achieve and then plan your safety additions.
Derek
YES!!!! This is NOT a debate on this one. Any chassis shop will tell you, that on a Uni-Body car, subframe connectors are needed with a cage install. Now, you don't HAVE to have them, but they WILL/DO help.
i have had customers go faster with cage. one picked up a tenth after cage install. so don't let the weight fool you. teh chassis will respond quicker. once i get a few bugs worked out of my car i will be caging mine when i am ready
Great input. Thanks a ton guys. You have sealed the deal for me. Ill make sure i make a little build thread for it.
Ok looks subframes are going on aswell.
On the swingout. Do you think that if we make the forward points low enough that their still needed? I have read lots of people do them then still dont use them.
Ok looks subframes are going on aswell.
On the swingout. Do you think that if we make the forward points low enough that their still needed? I have read lots of people do them then still dont use them.
http://shop.brokedickracing.com/Chromoly_c_1353.html
just under 400 and its cromoly 6 point cage not to bad of a price sorry they aint a sponsor
or just under 200 for a mild steel one
just under 400 and its cromoly 6 point cage not to bad of a price sorry they aint a sponsor
or just under 200 for a mild steel one