GainesvilleLS1

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys, some of you have been following (many from ls1.com) my modifications to a set of Lakewood Lift bars (see pic below), with my TA and rear sway removed. I finally got a run on some ET Streets, and here is what I learned:

- The suspension worked very well. Not a single person could convince me to go back to a TA. The car launched so violently, yet straight and true. Felt like a real race car out of the hole.
- The problem now is my drivetrain. Previous owner warned me that he had run a whollotta nitrous thru it and the stock A4's clutches were fried. (150 shot out of the hole with Nitto drag radials, and ANOTHER 150 shot down track). My ET's reflected this fact. I wasnt putting the power to the ground. The car would lay down, especially mid to end of track.

- My rebuilt 10 bolt aint gonna last, but I knew that. Mine started making new noises that I could hear AND feel! Not good.

Here's the results, again, its obvious to me I have issues, but I am happy with the suspension - sorry no video, couldnt get the cam from my Dad in time for the run.

60 ft - 1.787 (My brother said I was barely getting any smoke off my tires during burnout, but thats because I was afraid I was going to break something, better 60 ft could be had if I heated the tires more)
330 ft - 5.247
1/8 mile - 8.179
mph - 83.45

My other 3 runs were virtually identical.

Here are the mods to my 1999 Pontiac WS6:
- SLP .571/.571 cam with SLP springs and Titanium retainers
- SLP MAF
- Modified stock air box (baffles removed)
- K&N
- Predator Tune (could use more timing, Fuel/Air seems good)
- Mac ORYP w/O2 sims
- Mystery Cat-back system with the largest muffler I've ever seen.
- TCI 3500
- 3.73 gears
- Mod'd Lakewood Lift Bars
- MT ET Streets, 26x10.5x16 (running 25psi, I was told I could run them lower)

- Stock heads, stock LS1 intake, stock TB, stock exhaust manifolds, no weight reduction (fully optioned WS6 car with leather, T-Tops, etc).

Anyway, with some tweaking I know I could have seen a 7. But believe me, this drivetrain is tired, and I really wanted to drive home Friday night Overall, I had a blast. This car is so fun to launch with sticky tires. Traction is such a good thing!

Next steps.... New tranny (might decide on TH400 conversion) and new rear end. Also, for piece of mind, I'm going to tear that motor down, inspect everything, and build it a-new.

Peace!

Reference Pics:

SilverGhost

iTrader: (53)

nice looking setup there.

25psi is WAY to high, prolly contributed to your slower sixty alot. 25 is what i run in mine driving on the street, those suckers should have been at least at 16 psi, I run 12 in mine.

can came out nice and straight with that setup,too?

2001SS#3013

iTrader: (2)

So you don't have a torque arm on the car???? I didn't think you could do that.

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

so the bolts on those lakewood arms look weak and could easily break under 1.5 or better 60' times. also get those tires in the 15-18 psi range to hook MUCH better.

GainesvilleLS1

iTrader: (1)

Thanks SG, I've never had ET slicks before and I didnt know where to set 'em. I was afraid that if I went too low they'd spin on the rim. Thanks for the advice on the PSI! I'm sure I was spinning.

And yeah, straight as can be and neck snapping compared to the street tires

GainesvilleLS1

iTrader: (1)

The brackets are welded to each other, and to the rear end. The thing is rock solid. As for the bolts, all thick grade 8. Same stuff you'd use on a ladder bar or 4-bar setup. Front heims on the bars are 7/8"! And I thought 3/4" was the largest they made. Shows what I know

I truly appreciate the advice. I'm looking forward to playing with this setup more.

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

It looks solid to me, is that a bolt in lakewood setup?

LIL SS

iTrader: (9)

Terry, LM Performance Sells them ------------------------>

http://www.lmperformance.com/1689/1.html

GainesvilleLS1

iTrader: (1)

Yes they are, but I had Spohn modify (13.5" eye to eye) a set of their adjustable LCA's to use as my lower bars. The Lakewoods came with tiny 5/8 budget heims and I popped one. Spohn was outstanding. They understood immediately what I was trying to accomplish. Didnt hesitate to suggest cutting the bars to length, and even asked what color I wanted them powder coated.

Also, many that have tried the Lakewoods have broken the brackets where they wrap around the shock mount. So I welded them all up. No flex!

Oh, one more thing, I had to fabricate and weld on the front mounting brackets to accomodate the larger heim. I used 3/16" plate, and radiused drilled the 3 mounting holes so that I could move the bars without changing my pinion angle.

LIL SS

iTrader: (9)

2 questions.

1) What is the purpose then for the 3 different holes in the front braket if it does not affect pinion angle?

2) How do you adjust your pinion angle on this set up? Losen the bolts holding the rear in place in the lakewood mounts?

smokinHawk

iTrader: (48)

so this is like a 4 link set up then?

do you still drive this on the street, if so how does it handle?

GainesvilleLS1

iTrader: (1)

A - 1) Front Bracket: Its how you adjust the ICG (Instant Center of Gravity). By moving the bars to the upper hole, the initial hit on the tires is more severe, but you can literally risk throwing the car in the air, unloading the tires, spinning, dropping back down, grabbing, throwing, spinning again. Literally bouncing out of the hole and killing your 60 ft. If you move the bars down in the front brackets, you move the ICG forward which requires the bars to lift more of the cars weight, reducing the shock on the rear tires, and leveling out the launch. But with short bars like these, its harder to lift the car. So setting them too low, and you get no weight transfer, hence no traction. Spinnnnnnn. Its a minor adjustment that can effect your 60 ft drastically.

A - 2) Pinion Angle: The two front heims on the lower bars... you break them loose, turn them in or out, and the pinion angle is changed. You can also turn one in, and turn one out, maintain the same pinion angle, but preload one side or another. Which is cool if you find yourself going left or right on launch. So far, mine's been straight, but I am suffering some left front rise.

Hope that helps!

GainesvilleLS1

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, similar to a 4 link. But yet the top bar is fixed. So I guess its more like a hybrid of a ladder bar and 4 link.

And yes, I drive it on the street everyday. Drives like a normal car, and handles very well. I almost went with polybush ends on the lower bar for strength (like a 4-bar) but decided I wanted some flex/movement in the rearend for uneven surfaces. I was amazed how well it worked. You wouldnt know driving it that it was any different than stock, except when you give it gas, the whole car hops into the air

NOTE: I havent heard a single clunk or noise from the front heims. They are truly quality heims.

LS1x2

iTrader: (11)

So there is nothing connecting the differential to the middle or front of the body right? On a unibody car? No cage? That thing would twist like a pretzel if it made any power. Am I missing something?

GIZMO

iTrader: (8)

I had the "Lift Bars" on my Firebird a few years ago. They worked very well, but eventually the brackets cracked in a couple of places. The car now has Pete-Z bars. I have run with the torque arm removed, but did not like the way it hit the tires. I ended up making a new torque arm crossmember that allowed the arm to move a half inch, so that the lift bars would hit first. It proved to be a lot smoother and sixty foot times stayed the same (low 1.4's).

Daren

RyanJ

Can we get some more pics? Specifically what is different from this:



I can see the difference in the front mount, but what about the rear? Do you still have the bracket that wraps around the axle?

RyanJ

Thats how Madman recommends using the Z bars...interesting. So with the Lakewood setup, what is to stop your rear from moving around?

GainesvilleLS1

iTrader: (1)

I have subframe connectors. And yes, it I had more power (like 500+) I'd want a cage. But this is true of any car regardless of suspension.

I agree the TA offers some chassis stiffness, but nothing to do with twisting. If anything it acts as an I-beam for your car to rotate on... thats why the sway is so important with the TA setup. This setup puts the traction devices at the outside rear corners. IMO, much more correct than an I-beam down the center of the car.

GainesvilleLS1

iTrader: (1)

Thats outstanding 60 ft!!

I was warned about the brackets a few months ago when I first put them on... even saw some pics posted of the failures. Mine are welded together and to the rear end. The design will break if you rely on the bolts. Especially at the point where the bracket wraps around the shock mount.

I might come to the same conclusion you have, but so far so good. I cant tell you what a difference in rigidity and stability the lower Spohn bars made over the original Lakewood equipment. Monsterous difference.

GainesvilleLS1

iTrader: (1)

No change other than the lower bar & the front bracket. I still have the entire bracket in place (bolting it in gives you proper positioning). Then I tack welded key locations to keep it from relying on the brackets. Specifically, right where the bracket meets the shock mount, on the back side, is a nice fat bead. In addition, I welded the rear spacer to the brackets to connect both sides. I havent gone nutso on the welds yet because I am going to replace the rear end.

Short of that, its the same piece. I'd get some more pics, but I'm leaving for Vermont in a couple of hours.