Do slicks provide the same grip spinning at higher speeds?
02-29-2012, 11:54 AM
#1
Do slicks provide the same grip spinning at higher speeds? As title says, between spinning them at low speed (in 1st gear) and spinning at higher speed (in 2nd gear), is there difference in grip and acceleration?
On our crap tarmac my 1st gear (in manual 240SX) is completely useless, so I thought why not start in 2nd, but was afraid that faster spinning slicks would provide less traction.
So, do they loose grip?
On our crap tarmac my 1st gear (in manual 240SX) is completely useless, so I thought why not start in 2nd, but was afraid that faster spinning slicks would provide less traction.
So, do they loose grip?
02-29-2012, 07:47 PM
#5
I'd look at trying to fix the suspension before you try leaving in 2nd gear. That's not going to work out too well unless the gearing on that car is insanely low in first gear.
Make it hook, adjust the shock settings, move some weight back in the car, get rid of the insane amount of camber gain that those cars have when the rear suspension compresses, to help keep the whole tire in contact with the pavement, that would probably make a world of difference.
Make it hook, adjust the shock settings, move some weight back in the car, get rid of the insane amount of camber gain that those cars have when the rear suspension compresses, to help keep the whole tire in contact with the pavement, that would probably make a world of difference.
02-29-2012, 07:52 PM
#6
I'd look at trying to fix the suspension before you try leaving in 2nd gear. That's not going to work out too well unless the gearing on that car is insanely low in first gear.
Make it hook, adjust the shock settings, move some weight back in the car, get rid of the insane amount of camber gain that those cars have when the rear suspension compresses, to help keep the whole tire in contact with the pavement, that would probably make a world of difference.
Make it hook, adjust the shock settings, move some weight back in the car, get rid of the insane amount of camber gain that those cars have when the rear suspension compresses, to help keep the whole tire in contact with the pavement, that would probably make a world of difference.
02-29-2012, 08:01 PM
#7
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It's definitely a crutch, but if you can't pull timing or adjust launch enough, you do what you have to do??
Leaving in 2nd will have less torque multiplication, so it will definitely help hook.
Same reason why we have custom gear sets, sometimes you just can't control the big multiplication or wide ratio.
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It's definitely a crutch, but if you can't pull timing or adjust launch enough, you do what you have to do??
Leaving in 2nd will have less torque multiplication, so it will definitely help hook.
Same reason why we have custom gear sets, sometimes you just can't control the big multiplication or wide ratio.
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03-01-2012, 02:10 AM
#9
I'd look at trying to fix the suspension before you try leaving in 2nd gear. That's not going to work out too well unless the gearing on that car is insanely low in first gear.
Make it hook, adjust the shock settings, move some weight back in the car, get rid of the insane amount of camber gain that those cars have when the rear suspension compresses, to help keep the whole tire in contact with the pavement, that would probably make a world of difference.
Make it hook, adjust the shock settings, move some weight back in the car, get rid of the insane amount of camber gain that those cars have when the rear suspension compresses, to help keep the whole tire in contact with the pavement, that would probably make a world of difference.
"Make it hook" - I wish, but easier said than done. I couldn't find drag shocks for 240SX. Weight distribution is 54/46. Camber is fine, more or less
Too much of a risk to bog down with tiny 110ci engine. And when turbo "switches off", run is finished
03-01-2012, 02:12 AM
#10
perhaps seeing this video you will understand how bad our official track is.
700HP Evo destroying 1100HP purpose-built dragster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-S5VK4kjGc
700HP Evo destroying 1100HP purpose-built dragster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-S5VK4kjGc
03-01-2012, 06:42 AM
#11
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I thought people put turbo ls motors in those little cars... so I'm sure they are making twice the torque and hp that the little 4 banger is and I'de imagine they are hooking them up.
JL is saying that IF the car hooks in second, which it probably will b/c its probably going to bog, it will more than likely break something.... and that will probably be the clutch.
like gconnoyer said... leaving at a lower rpm/less power level would probably be a better thing to try.
next time you go to the track just give it a few different tries... worst case scenario you blow the clutch up, or break something in the back.
JL is saying that IF the car hooks in second, which it probably will b/c its probably going to bog, it will more than likely break something.... and that will probably be the clutch.
like gconnoyer said... leaving at a lower rpm/less power level would probably be a better thing to try.
next time you go to the track just give it a few different tries... worst case scenario you blow the clutch up, or break something in the back.
03-01-2012, 06:47 AM
#12
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Like I said, you do what you have to do.
When I couldn't get my car to work with a 2.48 1st gear, and I did everything I could to the car & launch, I went to a 1.76 gear.
It worked much much better, but cost $4000.
Leaving in 2nd is free, and if it works until you can try something else, go for it.
I couldn't leave in 2nd, with a turbo 400 so I had no choice but to build a different trans.
Good luck,
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Like I said, you do what you have to do.
When I couldn't get my car to work with a 2.48 1st gear, and I did everything I could to the car & launch, I went to a 1.76 gear.
It worked much much better, but cost $4000.
Leaving in 2nd is free, and if it works until you can try something else, go for it.
I couldn't leave in 2nd, with a turbo 400 so I had no choice but to build a different trans.
Good luck,
.
03-01-2012, 07:08 AM
#13
Well actually I wasn't hoping to dead hook in 2nd, instead I wanted to spin quite a lot till it gets to at least 5000rpm, because bogging down on such small motor means loosing instantly
03-01-2012, 07:12 AM
#14
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Like I said, you do what you have to do.
When I couldn't get my car to work with a 2.48 1st gear, and I did everything I could to the car & launch, I went to a 1.76 gear.
It worked much much better, but cost $4000.
Leaving in 2nd is free, and if it works until you can try something else, go for it.
I couldn't leave in 2nd, with a turbo 400 so I had no choice but to build a different trans.
Good luck,
.
Like I said, you do what you have to do.
When I couldn't get my car to work with a 2.48 1st gear, and I did everything I could to the car & launch, I went to a 1.76 gear.
It worked much much better, but cost $4000.
Leaving in 2nd is free, and if it works until you can try something else, go for it.
I couldn't leave in 2nd, with a turbo 400 so I had no choice but to build a different trans.
Good luck,
.
BUT I have to plan mods ahead. If I learn that slicks don't loose much grip spinning, than I'd plan to start in 2nd and change main gear accordingly.
If I learn they loose much grip, then... I don't know what to do then
because as I said you can't afford to bog down in turbo 110ci but anyway I'm spinning like crazy already. 1st is useless.
03-01-2012, 08:00 AM
#15
Move more weight backwards... that's the only thing you probably can do that's going to help.
I don't know what it is about those cars but they are terrible at hooking up period, regardless what is in it for a motor.
The only other thing I can think that may help you is a slipper type clutch, and changing the rear end ratio out for something alot longer. Make 1st like 2nd and then put a slipper type clutch in so it won't fall on it's face.. an inherent problem with all 4 bangers.
I don't know what it is about those cars but they are terrible at hooking up period, regardless what is in it for a motor.
The only other thing I can think that may help you is a slipper type clutch, and changing the rear end ratio out for something alot longer. Make 1st like 2nd and then put a slipper type clutch in so it won't fall on it's face.. an inherent problem with all 4 bangers.
03-01-2012, 08:04 AM
#16
Move more weight backwards... that's the only thing you probably can do that's going to help.
I don't know what it is about those cars but they are terrible at hooking up period, regardless what is in it for a motor.
The only other thing I can think that may help you is a slipper type clutch, and changing the rear end ratio out for something alot longer. Make 1st like 2nd and then put a slipper type clutch in so it won't fall on it's face.. an inherent problem with all 4 bangers.
I don't know what it is about those cars but they are terrible at hooking up period, regardless what is in it for a motor.
The only other thing I can think that may help you is a slipper type clutch, and changing the rear end ratio out for something alot longer. Make 1st like 2nd and then put a slipper type clutch in so it won't fall on it's face.. an inherent problem with all 4 bangers.
But again, by putting longer ratio diff I will spin tires more. Will they loose a good amount of traction when spinning faster?
03-01-2012, 08:10 AM
#17
No you won't really spin them more, the friction to ground should get the car moving more.
There are adjustable shocks out for that car look around on the ricer forums they are there, you'll have to lower the back of the car some to get it shifted back, pull more weight out of the front, move stuff to the back (battery if it's not already, etc). Lower the rear of the car, may have to minitub it if you have a bigger tire on it like in your sig pic, pull the tires in if you have to, hell put a taller slick on if you are going to minitub, and increase the traction that way.
Another thing you could look at doing is lowering the front as well so it has more downtravel in the suspension which will allow more weight transfer when you launch it. The car's probably like every other one of those cars I see it doesn't transfer weight for **** and then blows the tires off like mad.. sound about right?
There are adjustable shocks out for that car look around on the ricer forums they are there, you'll have to lower the back of the car some to get it shifted back, pull more weight out of the front, move stuff to the back (battery if it's not already, etc). Lower the rear of the car, may have to minitub it if you have a bigger tire on it like in your sig pic, pull the tires in if you have to, hell put a taller slick on if you are going to minitub, and increase the traction that way.
Another thing you could look at doing is lowering the front as well so it has more downtravel in the suspension which will allow more weight transfer when you launch it. The car's probably like every other one of those cars I see it doesn't transfer weight for **** and then blows the tires off like mad.. sound about right?
03-01-2012, 08:12 AM
#18
Another trick you could do with that car, go get a small windshield washer pump and a small resivoir and while you're doing your burnout, engage the pump and spray some VHT on the ground in front of the tires... old school street racing deal but it does work.
03-01-2012, 08:17 AM
#19
No you won't really spin them more, the friction to ground should get the car moving more.
There are adjustable shocks out for that car look around on the ricer forums they are there, you'll have to lower the back of the car some to get it shifted back, pull more weight out of the front, move stuff to the back (battery if it's not already, etc). Lower the rear of the car, may have to minitub it if you have a bigger tire on it like in your sig pic, pull the tires in if you have to, hell put a taller slick on if you are going to minitub, and increase the traction that way.
Another thing you could look at doing is lowering the front as well so it has more downtravel in the suspension which will allow more weight transfer when you launch it. The car's probably like every other one of those cars I see it doesn't transfer weight for **** and then blows the tires off like mad.. sound about right?
There are adjustable shocks out for that car look around on the ricer forums they are there, you'll have to lower the back of the car some to get it shifted back, pull more weight out of the front, move stuff to the back (battery if it's not already, etc). Lower the rear of the car, may have to minitub it if you have a bigger tire on it like in your sig pic, pull the tires in if you have to, hell put a taller slick on if you are going to minitub, and increase the traction that way.
Another thing you could look at doing is lowering the front as well so it has more downtravel in the suspension which will allow more weight transfer when you launch it. The car's probably like every other one of those cars I see it doesn't transfer weight for **** and then blows the tires off like mad.. sound about right?
lowering both rear and front doesn't make any sense to me I'm afraid.
And no, minitub is a bit too crazy, not a stockish car in my view
edit: yes it does blow tires immediately and it doesn't transfer weight, you can see it very good in those short videos
03-01-2012, 04:07 PM
#20
Lowering the front, if you can without losing any weight (lower the front and rear) will give the front suspension more down travel from ride height, effectively allowing more weight transfer to the rear tires, this will help with traction.
Does the car have any anti squat built into the independant rear suspension? If so can you get rid of it so the rear will squat more, effectively also transferring more weight?
These are the things you have to do to get the car to leave. Or, put a lower ratio rear gear (3.73 to 3.55 for example) in the rear end, and put a slipper clutch in the car. This way when you let it out it doesn't grab so hard and bog the motor, and the longer gears will let you actually use some of first with the slipper clutch more effectively.
If you already have every posible thing moved to the back of the car, can you shift the motor rearwards in the engine bay at all? Even if it's only 2 or 3 inches that's still enough to help, just have to relocate the motor mounts and trans mount, and shirten the drivehsaft.
What about the radiator, can yo go smaller with that, or run it off a water tank instead of a radiator? If so then you can put the water tank, about 5 gallons would be plenty for an engine that size, and put that in the back of the car as well.
Lighter front suspension, brakes, wheels, anything you can do to get the thing to want to pull the front end up off the ground is absolutely going to help this situation. Hell move the drivers seat back and extend the pedals and steering column so you've sitting more in the back of the car.
Some out of the box thinking will be needed most likely to get the car to leave but it's possible.
Does the car have any anti squat built into the independant rear suspension? If so can you get rid of it so the rear will squat more, effectively also transferring more weight?
These are the things you have to do to get the car to leave. Or, put a lower ratio rear gear (3.73 to 3.55 for example) in the rear end, and put a slipper clutch in the car. This way when you let it out it doesn't grab so hard and bog the motor, and the longer gears will let you actually use some of first with the slipper clutch more effectively.
If you already have every posible thing moved to the back of the car, can you shift the motor rearwards in the engine bay at all? Even if it's only 2 or 3 inches that's still enough to help, just have to relocate the motor mounts and trans mount, and shirten the drivehsaft.
What about the radiator, can yo go smaller with that, or run it off a water tank instead of a radiator? If so then you can put the water tank, about 5 gallons would be plenty for an engine that size, and put that in the back of the car as well.
Lighter front suspension, brakes, wheels, anything you can do to get the thing to want to pull the front end up off the ground is absolutely going to help this situation. Hell move the drivers seat back and extend the pedals and steering column so you've sitting more in the back of the car.
Some out of the box thinking will be needed most likely to get the car to leave but it's possible.